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Old 05-05-2013, 10:00 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
Green was ranked above Jones as a prospect pretty much everywhere. Jones had a nice boost after the combine but Green was clearly the better prospect.

Jones is better physically but I rank Green as the 2nd best WR in the NFL behind CJ. Green is just a phenomenal WR. Physical attributes aren't everything. Jones also plays with a much superior QB and with another top level WR opposite.
Pretty much everywhere? So you really think the Falcons had Green ahead of him? I doubt it. Green was injured, measured shorter than he was billed and he didn't perform in the elite category in testing. I am sure teams were split on those two. The bigger point is no matter how the split went, it was a 1, 1a situation, so to place Lee between those two is impossible.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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I think most teams had Green higher than Jones on their boards. There was some talk that some west coast offense teams might've had Jones a little higher rated than AJ Green, but I think that was mostly bogus as WCO teams like the Browns and Bengals definitely liked Green more. Less questions about consistency and hands and explosion out of breaks when running routes. Green was a top top notch WR prospect and him not running a 4.4 flat wasn't a concern at all because of those things and his size.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Pretty much everywhere? So you really think the Falcons had Green ahead of him? I doubt it. Green was injured, measured shorter than he was billed and he didn't perform in the elite category in testing. I am sure teams were split on those two. The bigger point is no matter how the split went, it was a 1, 1a situation, so to place Lee between those two is impossible.
this is quite a useless post.

if there is even the slightest gap between the two lee could be inbetween those. Even when, like you argued it would be a 1, 1a and 1b situation there is still a ranking there.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:03 PM    (permalink
DeepThreat
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Pretty much everywhere? So you really think the Falcons had Green ahead of him? I doubt it. Green was injured, measured shorter than he was billed and he didn't perform in the elite category in testing. I am sure teams were split on those two. The bigger point is no matter how the split went, it was a 1, 1a situation, so to place Lee between those two is impossible.
Green was 6035, about what was expected. He ran a 4.48 at the combine. He wasn't injured. He was pretty much unanimously considered a better wide receiver than Jones.

I would be shocked if many teams had Julio ranked higher.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Green was 6035, about what was expected. He ran a 4.48 at the combine. He wasn't injured. He was pretty much unanimously considered a better wide receiver than Jones.

I would be shocked if many teams had Julio ranked higher.
I think there was a mix of opinions. The issue with Green was preparation and work ethic. I don't think it was one sided.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Green was easily the consensus #1 receiver.

Obviously Julio was a great receiver in his own right, but it wasn't a 1a/1b situation.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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I liked AJ more, and it seemed as though everyone had him ranked higher. Julio caught a ton of buzz after his 40 at the combine and had some freakish numbers. Its no slight to Julio at all...it just speaks of how good AJ is.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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No doubt in my mind that Marquis is on AJ's level. He is an elite WR that can run any route on the field even tho Kiffin just asks him to run down the field majority of the time. I remember telling my friend his freshman year that this dude is better than Robert Woods after watching him in a few games (back when Robert Woods was the man according to everyone), and getting a crazy look.

Just like Dez and AJ were automatic #1 WR's, Marquis is the same way. He will plugged in from Day 1 and be a go to WR in the NFL his rookie season. He needs to keep his head on straight, and get better at catching the routine balls as mentioned above. Occasional mental lapses on easy catches is the only flaw I have seen.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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In this draft I considered Tavon Austin one of two elite prospects. My grade changed on the type of player he is because of the way the NFL is changing. A slot player like Austin (and a legit threat out of the backfield) is a rare player. Percy Harvin has shown that he might not be a Top 5 WR in the league (in the purestest sense), but he's one of the elite offensive weapons in the game. Austin can have that type of impact. WRs no longer need to be 6'1"+ and 215+ lbs to be #1 WRs in the league.

Marquis Lee is no exception. I don't think he's comparable to AJ Green or Julio Jones because he's a different type of primary receiver. And with the way the NFL is now, he'll have no problem fitting in, and becoming a top level WR. Vertical speed and size is no longer a deterrent. His quickness and elusiveness is at an elite level and that has always been crucial to getting open in the NFL.

Jadaveon Clowney (South Carolina), Marquis Lee (USC) and Anthony Barr (UCLA) all look like special talents. Clowney is the only true elite prospect so far (measurables, production, upside, technique). He's the the total package that's almost flawless. Lee has question marks regarding size and speed. Barr has question marks about lack of technique and consistency.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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How do you guys see Sammy Watkins fitting in the mix?
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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How do you guys see Sammy Watkins fitting in the mix?
Watkins is going to be a very good prospect, and its no slight to him that hes going to be the number 2 WR. Its more just a compliment to how good Marqise is.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Green was 6035, about what was expected. He ran a 4.48 at the combine. He wasn't injured. He was pretty much unanimously considered a better wide receiver than Jones.

I would be shocked if many teams had Julio ranked higher.
Green was listed at 6'5" and Jones ran .09 faster than Green in addition to out jumping him. And the only rankings that matter are the individual team rankings. Not Scott, not Kiper, not Mayock, not you or me. I am sure some teams had him ahead of Green.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Green was easily the consensus #1 receiver.

Obviously Julio was a great receiver in his own right, but it wasn't a 1a/1b situation.
Yes, it was. Jones severely outperformed Green at the combine with a broken foot and proved to be only an inch shorter while weighing more with a more rugged build. He's more explosive than Green.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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I think it's premature to argue Marquise Lee is the unanimous #1 WR prospect in this draft. Sammy Watkins could very easily overtake him after the 2013 season is done.

Lee may be a more consistent pass catcher and better route runner, but if Watkins runs the way he's expected to at the combine I think he's going to be the top wideout on many teams' boards.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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Lee fits between Dez Bryant and Greg Jennings.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Watkins is going to be a very good prospect, and its no slight to him that hes going to be the number 2 WR. Its more just a compliment to how good Marqise is.
Like Fisher was the #2 OT? That has yet to be decided.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Green was listed at 6'5" and Jones ran .09 faster than Green in addition to out jumping him. And the only rankings that matter are the individual team rankings. Not Scott, not Kiper, not Mayock, not you or me. I am sure some teams had him ahead of Green.
And AJ was a significantly better route runner, had more sure hands and his agility in and out of breaks is absolutely elite.

Green was the better prospect and while some teams may have had Jones ranked ahead, who knows, it's a certainty that the majority of teams preferred Green.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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I think it's premature to argue Marquise Lee is the unanimous #1 WR prospect in this draft. Sammy Watkins could very easily overtake him after the 2013 season is done.

Lee may be a more consistent pass catcher and better route runner, but if Watkins runs the way he's expected to at the combine I think he's going to be the top wideout on many teams' boards.


Bias aside, I could see that happening. Kind of like a Heyward-Bey Crabtree scenario.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:06 AM    (permalink
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Pretty much everywhere? So you really think the Falcons had Green ahead of him? I doubt it. Green was injured, measured shorter than he was billed and he didn't perform in the elite category in testing. I am sure teams were split on those two. The bigger point is no matter how the split went, it was a 1, 1a situation, so to place Lee between those two is impossible.
I don't know what the point of this is, but the Falcons very well could have had AJ Green rated higher. If they did, I don't think they would publicly admit it. Not now anyway.

Green was clearly the #1 WR prospect in that draft. Could a few teams have had it differently? Of course. But Green was touted as the better prospect, clearly, after the season was over and going into the Combine. The Combine generated enourmous buzz for Jones because he tested better than people were expecting. Jones played slow on tape and didn't high point the ball with the natural ability that Green showed in college. So his vertical, broad jump and 40 were surprising since that explosiveness didn't match his game tape (not to mention his awful sophomore season).

Before the Combine Jones was not a Top 10 pick. AJ Green was a lock to go in the Top 5 once the season ended. When the Combine came and went his name was still considered to be one of the few elite prospects in the daft and sure fire Top 5 pick. Right up until draft day. Jones rose up draft boards because of his workout. Not his play on the field. The Combine closed the gap between Green and Jones, but it wasn't enough to surpass him.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:36 AM    (permalink
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Marqise Lee is freaking fantastic. I previously compared him to a young Tim Brown.
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:20 AM    (permalink
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Green was listed at 6'5" and Jones ran .09 faster than Green in addition to out jumping him. And the only rankings that matter are the individual team rankings. Not Scott, not Kiper, not Mayock, not you or me. I am sure some teams had him ahead of Green.
Okay, well you have no proof of that and nothing to back it up, so....
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:39 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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And AJ was a significantly better route runner, had more sure hands and his agility in and out of breaks is absolutely elite.

Green was the better prospect and while some teams may have had Jones ranked ahead, who knows, it's a certainty that the majority of teams preferred Green.
Jones was faster, more explosive, stronger, a better blocker and harder to bring down. Right now both are elite players at their positions. While I believe most teams had Green #1, that is largely because of the offense he played in.

The point I am making is there was no appreciable difference between them other than production. Marquis Lee or anything else doesn't fit in between them, he is notch below them. Lee is closer to Greg Jennings, who is damn good, but nothing freaky about him.

In their primes (skill set, not career ranking!):

Tier I- WRs who have no weaknesses and possess two or more RARE attributes, such as size/speed ratio, size/agility ratio, leaping ability, strength, elusiveness, etc.
* Best of the best

Megatron 10*
Randy Moss 10*
T.O. 10*
Andre Johnson 10*
Larry Fitzgerald 10
A.J. Green 10
Julio Jones 10

Dez Bryant 9.5 (hands)
Vincent Jackson 9.5 (lacks elite speed)
Dwaye Bowe 9.5 (hands)

Tier II- WRs with elite skills and above average physical tools

Jerry Rice 9
Tory Holt 9
Chris Carter 9
Andre Reed 9
Art Monk 9
Marvin Harrison 9
Steve Smith 8.5 (lacks size)
Herman Moore 8.5 (lacked speed/explosiveness, yards after catch)
Michael Irving 8.5 (lacked speed)
Harold Carmichael (lacked speed)

Tier III- WRs with elite skills, average physical tools

Tim Brown 8
Reggie Wayne 8
Paul Warfield 8
Roddy White 8
Irving Fryar 8
Don Maynard 8
Henry Ellard 8
Greg Jennings 8
Issac Bruce 8
Flipper Anderson 7.5 (lacked size, limited route runner)
Andre Rison 7.5

Tier IV- Elite Skills, below average physical tools

Wes Welker 7
Steve Largent 7
Hines Ward 7
Fred Bileknikoff 6.5 (no explosion)
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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Lee fits between Dez Bryant and Greg Jennings.
Just stop posting...Greg Jennings? When was Jennings a first round prospect?
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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FWIW Atlanta was supposedly ready to trade up with the Bengals and grab Green but the trade fell through and instead we moved up and got Julio.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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Just stop posting...Greg Jennings? When was Jennings a first round prospect?
WHAT?? What in the living **** are you talking about? I and everyone else is making a comparison to their SKILLS, genius, not where they were drafted. Do you think Jennings having gone to Western Michigan as opposed to USC or Oklahoma played into where he was drafted?

Greg Jennings- 5'11", 198 lbs 4.48 forty time

Marquise Lee- 6'0", 195 estimated 4.5 forty time

It's a very fair comparison. My specific comparision was a Jennings/Bryant combo for the record because I think Lee has a little more play making ability whent he ball is in the air.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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