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Old 05-06-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
FWIW Atlanta was supposedly ready to trade up with the Bengals and grab Green but the trade fell through and instead we moved up and got Julio.
Not saying it can't be true, but I never heard that. Also, I personally find that hard to believe. Usually when a team trades their draft for one player, it's for that specific player, not a position.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:58 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
Green was easily the consensus #1 receiver.

Obviously Julio was a great receiver in his own right, but it wasn't a 1a/1b situation.
LOL, it wasn't 1a and 1b, yet both receivers, a position that does not often go in the top ten to begin with, were drafted in the top 6 overall in the draft? There could be no better example of a 1a (Green) and 1b (Jones).
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Not saying it can't be true, but I never heard that. Also, I personally find that hard to believe. Usually when a team trades their draft for one player, it's for that specific player, not a position.
We were drafting for position and there were two elite prospects at the position. We wanted WR all the way.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:18 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
We were drafting for position and there were two elite prospects at the position. We wanted WR all the way.
Only the Falcons can confirm that.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-06-2013, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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LOL, it wasn't 1a and 1b, yet both receivers, a position that does not often go in the top ten to begin with, were drafted in the top 6 overall in the draft? There could be no better example of a 1a (Green) and 1b (Jones).
by that logic Calvin Johnson and Tedd Ginn were also sort of a 1a and 1b.

that the second one is also drafted high says nothing about the size of the gap between them
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wicket View Post
by that logic Calvin Johnson and Tedd Ginn were also sort of a 1a and 1b.

that the second one is also drafted high says nothing about the size of the gap between them
I doesn't by itself, but when you consider all the other information and not just one convenient strawman criteria in a vaccuum, it does. I was at that draft and the Dolphins were laughed at for picking Ginn that high. Keshawn Johnson said the Dolphins picked a KR in the top 10 on television. Calvin Johnson is widely considered the best WR prospect of all time. Johnson and Ginn were light years apart as prospects to begin with.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-06-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I doesn't by itself, but when you consider all the other information and not just one convenient strawman criteria in a vaccuum, it does. I was at that draft and the Dolphins were laughed at for picking Ginn that high. Keshawn Johnson said the Dolphins picked a KR in the top 10 on television. Calvin Johnson is widely considered the best WR prospect of all time. Johnson and Ginn were light years apart as prospects to begin with.
yet that argument is all youve offered thusfar, i wasnt giving this example to show that ginn and megatron are equal, i used it to show that you have to diversify your argument because this sole argument is getting you nowhere
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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How tall is Lee?
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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How tall is Lee?
He's about 6'1"
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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yet that argument is all youve offered thusfar, i wasnt giving this example to show that ginn and megatron are equal, i used it to show that you have to diversify your argument because this sole argument is getting you nowhere
That certainly is NOT my soul argument. The rest of my argument is all over this post which you apparently did not read. I mentioned where they were drafted LAST, after I made all my other points. You really should get informed before you make false accusations.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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How tall is Lee?
Listed as 6'0 but I'd be surprised if he wasn't 5'10 or just above
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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He's about 6'1"
He is listed as 6'0" and usually player are not under sold on their height. Athough he is very good, I don't understand how anyone can compare him to Green, Jones, Fitz, etc.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Hmmm. It's hard for me to put him in the AJ Green/Julio class at that height. Unless he runs a 4.3 then maaaaaybe.

But to be in that class, you need size and speed.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Hmmm. It's hard for me to put him in the AJ Green/Julio class at that height. Unless he runs a 4.3 then maaaaaybe.

But to be in that class, you need size and speed.
I mentioned earlier in the thread, he will be drafted highly due to his ability with the ball in his hands and his completeness as a WR. But he will struggle with the measureables.

Against UCLA he was covered a lot by Sheldon Price who was listed as 6'2. Now Price I would say easily had 3 inches, probably 4 on him. And Lee isn't really a burner, he has been caught in the open field on more than a few occassions. I predict he runs in the 4.5 range.

From a tools perspective Lee is a solid first rounder, but it's the little things he does so well which will make him a top 10 pick
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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I mentioned earlier in the thread, he will be drafted highly due to his ability with the ball in his hands and his completeness as a WR. But he will struggle with the measureables.

Against UCLA he was covered a lot by Sheldon Price who was listed as 6'2. Now Price I would say easily had 3 inches, probably 4 on him. And Lee isn't really a burner, he has been caught in the open field on more than a few occassions. I predict he runs in the 4.5 range.

From a tools perspective Lee is a solid first rounder, but it's the little things he does so well which will make him a top 10 pick
And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But there's no way you can put him in the AJ Green category if he lacks ideal measurables. That's why Green is so good to begin with. Why Julio is so good to begin with.

It's why Justin Blackmon was considered by many to be an overrated WR prospect.

You can certainly be a terrific WR in this league without elite height or speed, but as a prospect, you can't be lumped into the elite category of prospects without the measurables to boot.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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I think it's premature to argue Marquise Lee is the unanimous #1 WR prospect in this draft. Sammy Watkins could very easily overtake him after the 2013 season is done.

Lee may be a more consistent pass catcher and better route runner, but if Watkins runs the way he's expected to at the combine I think he's going to be the top wideout on many teams' boards.
Yep. If Watkins duplicates his freshman year this season I think he can leapfrog Lee. He has a little better size and elite speed that scouts will look at and drool over when they watch his freshman tape. But comparing the ridiculous year Lee had last season with the crappy one Watkins had, Lee was elite and Watkins was bleh. DeAndre Hopkins was the star WR on Clemson last season, Watkins was a shade of his freshman self.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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That certainly is NOT my soul argument. The rest of my argument is all over this post which you apparently did not read. I mentioned where they were drafted LAST, after I made all my other points. You really should get informed before you make false accusations.
i started on page 1 saying lee was inbetween julio and aj, you said there was no space inbetween julio and aj. i said the room isnt big but he is in there. you said, but look at where the falcons drafted him and what they gave up. I said doesnt matter AJ went higher and was regarded higher, you said but look at where he was drafted. this happened about 3 more times
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But there's no way you can put him in the AJ Green category if he lacks ideal measurables. That's why Green is so good to begin with. Why Julio is so good to begin with.

It's why Justin Blackmon was considered by many to be an overrated WR prospect.

You can certainly be a terrific WR in this league without elite height or speed, but as a prospect, you can't be lumped into the elite category of prospects without the measurables to boot.
Yeah I definitely agree. I think Lee is clearly below both AJ and Julio as a prospect, but those were 2 of the top WR prospects of the last 7 or 8 years.

I like Lee well above Blackmon as a prospect, but I really wasn't a big fan of Blackmon.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-06-2013, 01:10 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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i started on page 1 saying lee was inbetween julio and aj, you said there was no space inbetween julio and aj. i said the room isnt big but he is in there. you said, but look at where the falcons drafted him and what they gave up. I said doesnt matter AJ went higher and was regarded higher, you said but look at where he was drafted. this happened about 3 more times
I said that to illustrate how small the gap was, but it should be taken in consideration with everything else we know about those two, which you are totally ignoring. Don't tell me that Jones running a 4.39 at his size with a broken foot didn't close the gap. And by definition, if there is a 1a/1b situation, there is no "room" inbetween them. One of them has the edge. To place Lee between them is utterly ridiculous. He is 6'0", if that.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-06-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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He's not like AJ Green or Julio Jones. At all. They're both way bigger than him and that provides an element to their game that Lee simply does not have. When I watch him I think Reggie Wayne.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Tier III- WRs with elite skills, average physical tools

Tim Brown 8
)
I don't see how Tim Brown fits in this category. He had 4.3- speed coming out of college. And I expect Lee to run similarly. He doesn't have the suddenness of a Tavon Austin or a Deanthony Thomas, but I expect similar speed testing to Brown.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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I don't see how Tim Brown fits in this category. He had 4.3- speed coming out of college. And I expect Lee to run similarly. He doesn't have the suddenness of a Tavon Austin or a Deanthony Thomas, but I expect similar speed testing to Brown.
I put Brown in at the top of that category for a reason. I think the knee early in his career injury slowed him down a bit and also he didn't have anything special going on size wise. Nothing approaching freaky- not tall or wide, didn't have long arms or big hands, just very, very skilled.

I'll tell you one other guy I failed to mention- Chris Chambers. Fast, great leaping ability and FREAK arms.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-06-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
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DeAndre Hopkins was the star WR on Clemson last season, Watkins was a shade of his freshman self.
I believe there was a lot more to the Watkins story than was let on last season. Besides the suspension in beginning of season, his lackluster play, and even that one week he was ruled out with a "stomach virus" for Saturday when it was only Tuesday of that week.

Something was up last year. Not sure what though.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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I believe there was a lot more to the Watkins story than was let on last season. Besides the suspension in beginning of season, his lackluster play, and even that one week he was ruled out with a "stomach virus" for Saturday when it was only Tuesday of that week.

Something was up last year. Not sure what though.
The "stomach virus" was actually from the physical beating he took while matched up with Xavier Rhodes and Tyler Hunter according to a lot of Clemson fans. I think if he gets back to form he'll go ahead of Lee in the Draft next Spring due to his size and speed.
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