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Old 05-08-2013, 03:03 PM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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I think the trend of player safety is eliminating the "Intimidator" at the FS spot, the days of a Steve Atwater, John Lynch, Brian Dawkins and someone like Sean Taylor(RIP) are gone... the guy that made TE's and WR's get scared to attack the middle are gone.


Not saying the guys above couldnt cover, but alot of their game involved hitting and that in itself is a dying trait in the NFL.

Which is why the safties are getting smaller... I mean Earl Thomas is smaller than alot of corners, and its not just him but alot of safties are getting smaller.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
I considered Clark's season last year as good as any safety in the NFL (Earl Thomas was great in the playoffs so I might consider him to have the best year when all is said and done). With Polamalu' injury shortened season, Clark stepped up and became a complete player, which he's always been, but it was magnified more last year than ever before. He was the best player in the secondary. The secondary that gave up the fewest passing yards in the league (Keenan Lewis' Pro Bowl caliber season also helped). And it's not like the front 7 was so dominating and putting all kinds of pressure on the QB.

You seem to focus on all the negatives. I don't know why. You seemed to have had no problem with Weddle making my list. Both players were asked to do almost identical things last year. They could both play the deep half or deep third on one play, then come up in the box as the 8th run defender the very next. If you look at their impact stats (INTs and FFs), then you have two players that are nearly identical in terms of turnovers (Weddle with one more INT). Their tackles are also very close as both had around 100 tackles.

Saying he has horrible closing speed? Only excels at laying the boom? And is afraid of turnovers? WTF. You kinda need a running start to lay a boom, so I don't how a guy with horrid closing speed could ever be in such a position to lay a boom.

This reminds me of Chris Hope. Hope was a really good player in the Steelers defense. The second they lost him, they were giving up big passing plays left and right. Clark eventually filled the void after a couple years in the system, and has since been a better player then Hope ever was. Clark completely takes away anything deep. The Steelers never give up anything deep (unless its in Denver, then you get to really see his impact). It isn't because of Polamalu, that's not his game or his strength, or the great CBs they have.

I'm not going to say Clark is elite against the pass because he doesn't force enough turnovers (which you alluded to by talking about how afraid he was), but he's very good because of his positioning and instincts. I'm not going to say he's elite against the run because there's a guy who plays SS right next to him that is elite against the run (and the difference is astronomical), but he's very good at playing down in the box. Not to mention, he stepped up as the leader in that defense last year and showed that he could play next to complete garbage and play like a great safety that does a little bit of everything.

There is a current discussion that is taking place. Some are saying that they'd rather have a guy who's elite at something over a guy who does a bunch of things well, but nothing great. Some want the player that does everything well. A lot has to do with your surroundings. Some players are asked to do more than others because they have terrible players around them. Clark was asked to do more last year because of injuries. Some players have great CBs and can allow their ball hawking to shine through, or their ability to play in the box. Either way, I don't think you can fault a player who does what's asked of him really well. Just like you can't be overly critical of a player who tries to overcompensate for terrible play around him (Malcolm Jenkins). Ryan Clark might be in the ideal situation. He might be completely average anywhere else, but I can't judge him on that. I can only judge him on him being in the perfect scenario.
He has played some good football lately, I am not disputing that. And he may be in the perfect situation.

Ill comment more later when i can but while hes a big reason the steelers have a high ranking in the passing yards category, he is also a big contributor to folding in big situations making that stat useless. It doesnt all go on him, but the steelers lost a lot of games by 3 points or in OT last season and it was that highly ranked pass defense getting shredded when it really mattered. Clarks best attributes arent qualities you want in a FS when the game is on the line. Denver, Oakland, Dallas, Tennessee...all losses they could have won, all by 3 or in OT, and all blown by the #1 pass defense in the end, which was the difference between .500 and a playoff team. Ill add more on why clark is being massively overrated on your rankings.

Also, Keenan Lewis went from putrid, lost, and scared to ok. CB is not a physically grueling position to play for the steelers, but it has many nuances that make it difficult to learn. Lewis is a great tackler, and showed better than expected hips and reaction while in coverage but a pro bowl caliber player he is not. Cotez Allen will make everyone forget about lewis, it was just nice to see him not play horribly, no way he was worth the coin he got
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:04 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Let's give Harrison Smith some love.

Dude is a beast. I'm surprised he's not being talked about.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:23 PM    (permalink
K Train
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Let's give Harrison Smith some love.

Dude is a beast. I'm surprised he's not being talked about.
He is a stud, people will be talking about him, hes still only in his second year. Weve seen guys dominate as a rookie and get even better the next year (see jairus byrd) or regress hard like devin mccourty
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:52 PM    (permalink
BigBanger
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
He has played some good football lately, I am not disputing that. And he may be in the perfect situation.

Ill comment more later when i can but while hes a big reason the steelers have a high ranking in the passing yards category, he is also a big contributor to folding in big situations making that stat useless. It doesnt all go on him, but the steelers lost a lot of games by 3 points or in OT last season and it was that highly ranked pass defense getting shredded when it really mattered. Clarks best attributes arent qualities you want in a FS when the game is on the line. Denver, Oakland, Dallas, Tennessee...all losses they could have won, all by 3 or in OT, and all blown by the #1 pass defense in the end, which was the difference between .500 and a playoff team. Ill add more on why clark is being massively overrated on your rankings.

Also, Keenan Lewis went from putrid, lost, and scared to ok. CB is not a physically grueling position to play for the steelers, but it has many nuances that make it difficult to learn. Lewis is a great tackler, and showed better than expected hips and reaction while in coverage but a pro bowl caliber player he is not. Cotez Allen will make everyone forget about lewis, it was just nice to see him not play horribly, no way he was worth the coin he got
I'm still waiting on the more reasons why I'm overrating Clark. You mostly talked about the Steelers as a whole as you were attempting to discredit his play. And you mentioned the Denver game when he didn't even play in it (I should be mentioning those games in Denver to state my case for his absence). The Raiders game... How many fumbles did they have on offense? Does Ryan Clark deserve the blame for this? C'mon Man!!

The Steelers giving up last minute drives... That's nothing new. It just happened against really bad teams last year. And in the playoffs the year before against Tebow. But, like I said, giving up late scores has always been a problem for the Steelers defense. It's actually more surprising to see them get a late minute stop. I've always thought the Dick LeBeau defenses have struggled against the hurry up / 2-minute offense.

The Keenan Lewis stuff... Did he have sex with your mother? Allen played very well out of the nickel, but he's going to have prove that he can play on the edge. Which is much different. And I'm not so sure his best position isn't inside covering the slot. With Lewis, the Steelers finally had the ability to play man coverage on the edges. Allen made them even better against the pass when they could play man coverage against the slot.
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I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

Last edited by BigBanger : 05-14-2013 at 01:54 AM.
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