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Old 05-09-2013, 07:19 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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the first paragraph of konzs wiki page:
ah. it's because he didn't have a set position. Ok, then: RB Chris Henry.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:22 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
OJ was a freak as well, but his off the field life has made him a forgotten man when people suggest all time greats at RB.


Frank Gore deserves some mention in this thread as well. He was touted as one of the best high school backs of all time and was going to start as a freshman at Miami when they were still rolling big (Over Clinton Portis). What he has done in his career after multiple serious knee injuries is amazing.
Gore's pretty average in terms of his numbers though
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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ah. it's because he didn't have a set position. Ok, then: RB Chris Henry.
It clearly says they have to have production
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Gore's pretty average in terms of his numbers though
Testing numbers I assume?
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:33 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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It clearly says they have to have production
Ah. Then Adrian Peterson.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Hints to provide acceptable answers in this thread....

1. Compile a list of the top players of all-time at each position.
2. Narrow said list to the players that had the best H/W/S ratio.
3. Use those players as your answer.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Thoughts on O-line? Is Jones acceptable, or should it go to Staley or someone else? Staley has the incredible numbers but Jones has the strength and seemingly flawless execution. Tyon Smith? Tony Boselli?

I've added a freak no one thinks about- OG Randall McDaniel. He came into the league at about 260 and played OG in the modern era at 276! Not only did he play, he freaking dominated on his way to the HOF in 2009. I still don't understand how he did it. He would hold up DTs like he was propping up a lifeless body. What do you all think?
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Randall McDaniel was pretty incredible.

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Old 05-11-2013, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Randall McDaniel was pretty incredible.

Even more impressive that he dominated with a three point stance that made coaches cringe.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Ah. Then Adrian Peterson.
Adrian Peterson is incredible and freakish, but he's not a candidate to be the GOAT RB from a physical standpoint, even among guys with production.

He's much closer to Ahman Green than he is to Bo Jackson.

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Old 05-11-2013, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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Thoughts on O-line? Is Jones acceptable, or should it go to Staley or someone else? Staley has the incredible numbers but Jones has the strength and seemingly flawless execution. Tyon Smith? Tony Boselli?

I've added a freak no one thinks about- OG Randall McDaniel. He came into the league at about 260 and played OG in the modern era at 276! Not only did he play, he freaking dominated on his way to the HOF in 2009. I still don't understand how he did it. He would hold up DTs like he was propping up a lifeless body. What do you all think?
Staley, in my opinion doesn't have nearly enough production to be even considered on the list. He's a a borderline top 10 LT in the league year in and year out, that's not good enough. The guys given up 13 sacks the past two seasons, I don't have time to see where that ranks among LTs over the past two seasons, but I'm sure it's not very great. I know stats don't mean everything, but to me a perennial all-pro like Walter Jones, Willie Roaf or Jonathan Ogden would be 10X better than Staley on this list.

He's got the workout numbers, but the production still doesn't match. He's not a top LT in the league like people like to think
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Staley probably has more penalties/sacks allowed in 2011/12 than Walter had in his entire career.

The two aren't remotely comparable. Jones was a freakish athlete. He was breaking the 4.7 40 barrier when Bruce Campbell still thought girls had cooties. His 40 time would have put him firmly in the middle of 2013's LB class at 4.7.

He allowed 13 sacks over his career, with 10 of those coming in 2006 playing on an injured leg. Averaged. 0.69 holding penalties per year over his career.

Speed, quickness, power, balance and agility. Jones was exceptional in every way. He could have easily been the first 300 lb. TE in the league if he weren't so exceptional at LT.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson is incredible and freakish, but he's not a candidate to be the GOAT RB from a physical standpoint, even among guys with production.

He's much closer to Ahman Green than he is to Bo Jackson.
This is false. Bo Jackson didn't run a 4.1, Deion Sanders didn't run a 4.1, and Michael Jordan didn't jump 52 inches. Adrian Peterson is every bit the freak Bo was, AP just didn't grow up in the era where everyone said they were a god and no one could disprove it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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This is false. Bo Jackson didn't run a 4.1, Deion Sanders didn't run a 4.1, and Michael Jordan didn't jump 52 inches. Adrian Peterson is every bit the freak Bo was, AP just didn't grow up in the era where everyone said they were a god and no one could disprove it.
But Peterson is not as fast as the other two and that is not debatable.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Staley, in my opinion doesn't have nearly enough production to be even considered on the list. He's a a borderline top 10 LT in the league year in and year out, that's not good enough. The guys given up 13 sacks the past two seasons, I don't have time to see where that ranks among LTs over the past two seasons, but I'm sure it's not very great. I know stats don't mean everything, but to me a perennial all-pro like Walter Jones, Willie Roaf or Jonathan Ogden would be 10X better than Staley on this list.

He's got the workout numbers, but the production still doesn't match. He's not a top LT in the league like people like to think
Okay, I fully acknowledge he is not on the level of Walter Jones as a player, not many IF ANY are. But to say that Staley doesn't have enough production to be on the list insane. He was a first round pick in 2007 and was a starter at RT for a year after after moving to LT until present. He made the Pro Bowl in each of the last two years. That is easily more production than Bo Jackson. Staley ran a 4.79 and is an established player at his position.

You can certainly suggest someone else, but that decision should not be based soley on how good of a player they were. Again, this is a FREAK list, not an all time great list.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Even more impressive that he dominated with a three point stance that made coaches cringe.
I think the OGs are set in Allen and McDaniel, totally opposite freaks.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Okay, I fully acknowledge he is not on the level of Walter Jones as a player, not many IF ANY are. But to say that Staley doesn't have enough production to be on the list insane. He was a first round pick in 2007 and was a starter at RT for a year after after moving to LT until present. He made the Pro Bowl in each of the last two years. That is easily more production than Bo Jackson. Staley ran a 4.79 and is an established player at his position.

You can certainly suggest someone else, but that decision should not be based soley on how good of a player they were. Again, this is a FREAK list, not an all time great list.
You're arguement is based on a joke of a system for pro bowl voting? Seriously? The pro bowl holds no value anymore. Secondly, I never said anything about Bo Jackson. Jones reportedly ran a 4.6-4.7 prior to the draft

Sites referring to Walter Jones 40 time:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post...r-jones-statue

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawk...fljones06.html

To me, Joe Thomas is a bigger freak than Joe Staley and the level of play isn't even close. Thomas ran a 4.92. Trent Williams ran a 4.81, and has proven to be a better player than Staley in my eyes.

Either way, for offensive lineman I don't really equate speed to being a freak. To me, it's much more impressive to have quickness on the playing field than have ran a fast 40 time.

I watched a lot of Walter Jones and Willie Roaf, and to me there were not any more impressive OT's physically I have seen. They both possessed an amazing quickness for men of their size but also every week appeared to be the strongest man on the field. That's an impressive feat in my eyes.

Also, I think the guards have been pretty well established. But I'd like to throw out Will Shields as well
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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You're arguement is based on a joke of a system for pro bowl voting? Seriously? The pro bowl holds no value anymore. Secondly, I never said anything about Bo Jackson. Jones reportedly ran a 4.6-4.7 prior to the draft

Sites referring to Walter Jones 40 time:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post...r-jones-statue

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawk...fljones06.html

To me, Joe Thomas is a bigger freak than Joe Staley and the level of play isn't even close. Thomas ran a 4.92. Trent Williams ran a 4.81, and has proven to be a better player than Staley in my eyes.

Either way, for offensive lineman I don't really equate speed to being a freak. To me, it's much more impressive to have quickness on the playing field than have ran a fast 40 time.

I watched a lot of Walter Jones and Willie Roaf, and to me there were not any more impressive OT's physically I have seen. They both possessed an amazing quickness for men of their size but also every week appeared to be the strongest man on the field. That's an impressive feat in my eyes.

Also, I think the guards have been pretty well established. But I'd like to throw out Will Shields as well
Dude, first of all, Walter Jones IS ON the first team so why are you making a case that is already made? Second, YES, for the purpose of proving whether or not a player is established in his position, starting for the duration of one's career does the trick. The Pros Bowls were a cherry on top for emphasis. Now you want to have a debate about the validity of the Pro Bowl? As far as you not mentioning Jackson, obviously, I did. I guess you didn't grasp the point I illustrated.

Finally, you made an argument for some other players at OT, duly noted.
Williams is move of a freak than Thomas. Thomas being a player player than Staley means absolutely nothing in this thread. Roaf was a freak with incredible balance, strength and agility. However, I am not aware of any quality that makes Will Shields a freak. He was just a great player.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-13-2013, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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If Larry Allen qualifies as a freak, Will Shields certainly does as well
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Even more impressive that he dominated with a three point stance that made coaches cringe.
Oh man, thanks for posting!! I knew a lot about him but this clip told me some things I didn't know. This guy is first team All Freak!
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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If Larry Allen qualifies as a freak, Will Shields certainly does as well
Again, what makes him a freak? It's obvious how Allen was a freak. Nevermind, the starting OGs are set.
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Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Not arguing one way or another, just thought this play was awesome.

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Old 05-14-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Okay, I fully acknowledge he is not on the level of Walter Jones as a player, not many IF ANY are. But to say that Staley doesn't have enough production to be on the list insane. He was a first round pick in 2007 and was a starter at RT for a year after after moving to LT until present. He made the Pro Bowl in each of the last two years. That is easily more production than Bo Jackson. Staley ran a 4.79 and is an established player at his position.

You can certainly suggest someone else, but that decision should not be based soley on how good of a player they were. Again, this is a FREAK list, not an all time great list.
#1 OT on PFF this year fwiw
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Staley qualifies, but I'd argue guys like Ogden were bigger freaks. Ogden was just so big and strong, but mostly he was just a fluid athlete. Just shutdown in the passing game and the running game. It was rare that those LTs of that era gave up a sack. Guys that big shouldn't move that well.
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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I've always felt like Ogden would have become an NBA Power Forward if football had never existed. Guys with that size, strength, and athletic ability are incredibly rare.
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