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Old 05-09-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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At some point people need to realize Bradford is the problem. No QB has magically gone from below average to good because his team drafted a WR yet people keep expecting that to happen.
So in college with a really good stable of receivers he's good enough to be the #1 pick and in the NFL he struggles with ****** receivers. How is this confusing?
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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So in college with a really good stable of receivers he's good enough to be the #1 pick and in the NFL he struggles with ****** receivers. How is this confusing?
I was adamant he was Alex Smith II when he was coming out. More developed as a prospect, but that's who I compared him to, and they're pretty much neck-and-neck right now in terms of their stature in the league. But I don't see anything wrong with adding some dynamism to an offense that's been pretty stale for years. He's always been the kind of quarterback who's at his best when he's letting someone else make the big plays. He's reliable and has enough tools to do that, but his forte is operating a high-powered machine; he can be a great centerpiece for such a machine, but he's not the most important part.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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I called bradford alex smith from day one. Gimmicky system, average at best arm strength, shoulder injury. He really is right on par with smith right now

#longtimebradfordhater
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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Justin Hunter's long jump record is 30cm's further than Marqise Lee and he ran a 4.45. So Lee is slower than 4.45? That isn't elite speed.
Lee is likely in the 4.4 to 4.45 bracket which is very good but not necessarily elite speed. (Which is why I made it a point to say elite athleticism and not elite speed)

Remember that Justin Hunter is 6'4 and Marqise Lee is 6'0 (if not 5'11.5). The combination of speed, strength, and explosiveness required to produce a comparable long jump distance at Lee's height is elite athleticism and requires speed that probably translates to a sub 4.45 second 40 time. The guy can dunk on a 11 foot rim for crying out loud.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:22 AM    (permalink
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Marqise Lee reminds me of Peter Warrick.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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Marqise Lee reminds me of Peter Warrick.
That can't be a good thing for the next level.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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Marqise Lee reminds me of Peter Warrick.
Explain why....I'm not seeing that comparison
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Marqise Lee reminds me of Peter Warrick.
Yeah

It makes sense if you don't think about it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I never understood this Sam Bradford hate. You watch him play and you see the fuckload of talent he has.

Bradford:
82.6 RATING, 59.5 cmp%, 6.72 ypc, 3,702 yards, 21 TDs, 13 INTs, 6 fumbles, 51.6 QBR, 35 sacks taken, 25 drops

VS Playoff teams:
180/284 63.3 cmp%, 236 ypg, 6.7 ypc, 8 TDs/7 INTs

Flacco:
87.7 RATING, 59.7 cmp%, 7.19 ypc, 3,817 yards, 22 TDs, 10 INTs, 9 fumbles, 46.8 QBR, 35 sacks taken, 19 drops

vs playoff teams:
110/180 61.1 cmp%, 252.8 ypg, 7.2 ypc, 11 TDs/5 INTs

One Quarterback is considered a bust. The other one is considered to be a top 5 Quarterback in the NFL, and just got a monster deal....Please get the **** out of here with the "Bradford sucks" garbage. 3 OCs in 3 years, a **** team and Brandon Gibson and Danny Amendola as your top 2 targets.

Anyways to Lee....He's a top 15 talent, but I'm not taking him top 5.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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How does Marqise Lee compare to Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt??
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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As an athlete, Marqise is a Jeremy Maclin clone. Go watch Maclin's Mizzou highlights and it's eery how similar they are in their size and movement. Biggest difference is a) Lee is a lot more physical b) Maclin didn't and still doesn't really have the ability to go up, attack the football and make contested catches which pretty much means you either have to get him the ball on a short pass designed to go to him or passes downfield has to hit him in stride. Marqise has the ability to make those contested catches which is a pretty important attribute to have to be a #1 type WR.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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i dont see the maclin comparison, maclin was faster imo, didnt time it but sure looked it and was very effective as a returner/reverses, something i dont really see as a big part of Lee's game.

Im not sure what to think of this guy, he always seems to get open, but on the other hand i see a lot of things that raise questions.

+ always seems to be open, has a good feel for zones
+ tracks the ball well over his shoulder
+ elusive in space
+ very good hands for the most part when he shows them off
+ excellent agility

- body catches at times, or catches it too close to his body (doesnt extend)
- drops the occassional easy one
- lazy cuts on routes (almost every college player does though, so not as much a negative as just not a positive)
- my biggest issue though: hes kinda smallish, but not very fast, and not very strong. I have serious questions about whether or not his elusiveness translates to the pros as space is extremely limited and his speed and power wont help him create some.


after all that said. he just gets the job done and seems like a good kid to boot by all accounts. but is he isaac bruce, reggie wayne, or rashaun woods or like the host of other SC recievers who have flamed out in the pros? not trying to knock the guy too hard, i havent seen a ton of him, just a bit, just curious for input on where im way off.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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If you follow this thread you notice Marqise Lee gets slower page by page. It's quite amusing.

This guy runs like his hair is on fire. Like a cross between Greg Jennings and Steve Smith in my opinion as far as attributes.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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I can't say I've seen the blazing speed some of you insist he has. He's college fast, but I don't know if he's NFL fast. He might just be NFL-normal. As in, he's fast enough to play receiver, but he's not especially fast for a wide receiver. I too have some questions about how well his elusiveness will translate to the NFL.

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As an athlete, Marqise is a Jeremy Maclin clone. Go watch Maclin's Mizzou highlights and it's eery how similar they are in their size and movement. Biggest difference is a) Lee is a lot more physical b) Maclin didn't and still doesn't really have the ability to go up, attack the football and make contested catches which pretty much means you either have to get him the ball on a short pass designed to go to him or passes downfield has to hit him in stride. Marqise has the ability to make those contested catches which is a pretty important attribute to have to be a #1 type WR.
This is probably the easiest positive comparison/analysis for me to buy. In comparing him to Reggie Wayne, I did feel like I was selling his open field running a little short, and Maclin's more that type. Kind of a cross between Reggie Wayne and Jeremy Maclin works in my mind. So I see him as a good player, potentially a very important one to his team, but definitely more of a mid-first round type than someone I expect teams to be really clamoring for. Jeremy Maclin was always making people miss in college, but not as much in the NFL. He's good, but not unstoppable. I don't think Lee's going to be one of those "unstoppable" type players. the AJ Greens of the world.

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Old 05-10-2013, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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As an athlete, Marqise is a Jeremy Maclin clone. Go watch Maclin's Mizzou highlights and it's eery how similar they are in their size and movement. Biggest difference is a) Lee is a lot more physical b) Maclin didn't and still doesn't really have the ability to go up, attack the football and make contested catches which pretty much means you either have to get him the ball on a short pass designed to go to him or passes downfield has to hit him in stride. Marqise has the ability to make those contested catches which is a pretty important attribute to have to be a #1 type WR.
Maclin is who I see too and what I was about to post in this thread. I do think Maclin was/is a touch faster, but as you said Lee is definitely stronger/more physical and more capable of going up and getting the ball and making plays when he's covered.

I really liked Maclin coming out too, and they're pretty comparable as prospects in my eyes with Lee maybe being a bit better (though the gap will widen a bit if I see the same speed that I saw from Maclin in college next season). I think the lack of ideal height may keep him out of the top 5, particularly if he doesn't show elite speed, but I think settling somewhere in the back half of the top ten/early teens sounds about right.

Given he's got average size and I don't think has elite NFL speed it's tough to tell exactly how well he's going to translate. Much harder to win jump balls at the NFL level when you're not at least 6'2-6'3 and it's tougher to get open when you don't have special speed. Possible, it's just tougher to pull it off which is why I'm not sure I see a top 5 guy. Definitely has a lot of positive traits though. I don't think he'll drop off like Woods because nobody's going to take his touches away, though it'll be interesting to see how his production changes with a new QB.

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Old 05-10-2013, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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He's bigger and plays bigger than the majority of the folks he's compared to in this thread. I actually think he's bigger than his listing and will measure in at the combine around 6'1" 205.


As for his speed, you don't reach his kind of production (in a two tight end offense) or beat corners deep as often by being kinda fast or "college fast". The kid is fast, so let's put that to bed.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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As for his speed, you don't reach his kind of production (in a two tight end offense) or beat corners deep as often by being kinda fast or "college fast". The kid is fast, so let's put that to bed.
Really? Do you want me to do that thing where I pull up a bunch of huge stats by guys who ran higher than 4.5?
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Here's the nit picking I predicted in my other thread.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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Really? Do you want me to do that thing where I pull up a bunch of huge stats by guys who ran higher than 4.5?
Go ahead, I'd like to see your list of slow WR's who didn't play in a spread shotgun/run and shoot/Air raid offense with comparable stats to Marqise.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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Go ahead, I'd like to see your list of slow WR's who didn't play in a spread shotgun/run and shoot/Air raid offense with comparable stats to Marqise.
BMW....


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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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I think Lee at worst runs in the 4.4s at the combine. If he gets into one of those top flight pre-combine training facilities prior to Indy, I think Marqise can run a high 4.3.
Robert Woods was a good college WR. But Marqise just seems to be special from a physical talent perspective.

It's funny how he went from an 'elite' NFL prospect to merely good over the last few pages.

Watching Lee's highlights from last season really shows how poor Barkley is with his deep ball. So many times you see Lee either chops his steps to slow down or actually come to a complete stop to make the reception on longer routes.

There weren't many times were Barkley laid the ball out and let Marqise run under it.

Whatever Lee is, I have no question he's a number 1 WR in the pros.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:05 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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I watched some more of him and I think my appreciation has been improved. He's wiry, but he really is pretty big and I'm inclined to believe he's the full 6'1" by the way he looks compared to other players. He looks like he's got long arms, too, and the catching radius is really the important thing. Also definitely has serious speed. I was watching angles more pointedly and he outruns defenses. Good after the catch. Controlled feet. Sets up defenders for fakes, runs routes effectively.

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Originally Posted by BRAVEHEART View Post
Go ahead, I'd like to see your list of slow WR's who didn't play in a spread shotgun/run and shoot/Air raid offense with comparable stats to Marqise.
You're right. He consistently wins individual matchups playing pro style. He's good at seeing where the ball's going and putting himself where he needs to be to make the catch, too.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone is saying he isn't a great receiver. I just have a hard time placing him in that 'elite' category when he doesn't have elite size or athleticism. Could he be a great receiver in the NFL? Sure. Will he ever be an elite/top 5 receiver in the NFL? I doubt it. Like I said, great receiver, but i'm not taking him top 5.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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he doesnt have the athleticism???? Yes he definitely does, ill give you he not 6-3 or 6-4, but athletically hes everything you look for in a top talent
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
thebow305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
No doubt in my mind that Marquis is on AJ's level. He is an elite WR that can run any route on the field even tho Kiffin just asks him to run down the field majority of the time. I remember telling my friend his freshman year that this dude is better than Robert Woods after watching him in a few games (back when Robert Woods was the man according to everyone), and getting a crazy look.

Just like Dez and AJ were automatic #1 WR's, Marquis is the same way. He will plugged in from Day 1 and be a go to WR in the NFL his rookie season. He needs to keep his head on straight, and get better at catching the routine balls as mentioned above. Occasional mental lapses on easy catches is the only flaw I have seen.
Someone get this kid some lotion.
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