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Old 05-09-2013, 09:40 PM    (permalink
CowboysBeastMode
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
It was a financial issue more than an ability issue.
then why is he still on the street?

do i think he's better than free yes, but not waaaay better
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Let's be honest. Scott would've just rotted here.

We're getting Manziel next year anyways.
Manziel is overrated
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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then why is he still on the street?

do i think he's better than free yes, but not waaaay better
Clabo was just on the streets too as are some good players still. Who cares? That is terrible rationale. Yes he is waaaaay better then Winston. Do you have any idea where Free ranked in terms of Right Tackles? Jesus, sometimes I feel like some of us didn't even watch any Cowboy games.

You can come up with as many reasons as you want about why Winston is this or that but both he, and Parnell are massive upgrades on Free. That's fact. It's backed up by statistics, watching games, or anything else you wanted to use.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:11 AM    (permalink
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Its like Gosslin always says, if your not going to play your young guys why draft them, why keep them, look at our O-line, how many guys have we drafted that sit the bench for 3-4 years and move on. I mean whats the point? 3rd rounder should be a starter right?
Pittsburgh and Baltimore have always drafted guys high and not rushed them on the field, especially raw players. Jimmy Smith barely played in Baltimore as a 1st rounder, Timmons barely played in Pittsburgh as a 1st rounder, I wouldn't bat an eye if a 3rd round guy had to sit down for a year. Some guys just aren't ready. The good teams ease in those type of players. Shamarko is probably going to be a starter for the Steelers, but he's going to strictly play special teams this year, and he's by far more ready to play from day 1 then JJ is.


Why do those guys draft those players? Or keep them?
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

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Old 05-10-2013, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Clabo was just on the streets too as are some good players still. Who cares? That is terrible rationale. Yes he is waaaaay better then Winston. Do you have any idea where Free ranked in terms of Right Tackles? Jesus, sometimes I feel like some of us didn't even watch any Cowboy games.

You can come up with as many reasons as you want about why Winston is this or that but both he, and Parnell are massive upgrades on Free. That's fact. It's backed up by statistics, watching games, or anything else you wanted to use.
firstly i did watch the games, and if you really think parnell is massive upgrade, you clearly weren't watching the line play.

clabo isn't on the street anymore, less than 10 days after the draft he has a job, plus the big reason he got cut was he was overapaid on a team that has some primetime players that it had to keep.

as for winston from what i've heard and read he's a better pass blocker than free but as a run blocker pretty much the same as doug free.

yes doug free was horrible the first 11-12 game but when the cowboys put parnell in there and made him have to compete to keep his job, he played better.

but this isn't just about who's better, the real crux of this free/winston ordeal is, is eric winston 11 million dollars better than doug free? b/c thats the sum of the dead money from cutting doug free and winston salary is going to cost.

this why the cowboys should have drafted a tackle
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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If the dead money doesn't go into next season, why would you care?

It's Jerry's money.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Its like Gosslin always says, if your not going to play your young guys why draft them, why keep them, look at our O-line, how many guys have we drafted that sit the bench for 3-4 years and move on. I mean whats the point? 3rd rounder should be a starter right?
If it's not about the draft, which he's not dialed into now, I tune Goose out.

He is the worst sports writer at the DMN. His opinions are regularly flawed, IMO, even when it comes to MLB and the NBA. He's way out of his element and it was a bad decision on the part of the DMN and the Goose to make that transition.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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If the dead money doesn't go into next season, why would you care?

It's Jerry's money.
its does go into next season, 7 million in fact
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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its does go into next season, 7 million in fact
Welp...we have our answer right there.

That's why you're gonna roll with Free and Parnell. Can't jeopardize the future like that. 7 mill is a ton of money.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Pittsburgh and Baltimore have always drafted guys high and not rushed them on the field, especially raw players. Jimmy Smith barely played in Baltimore as a 1st rounder, Timmons barely played in Pittsburgh as a 1st rounder, I wouldn't bat an eye if a 3rd round guy had to sit down for a year. Some guys just aren't ready. The good teams ease in those type of players. Shamarko is probably going to be a starter for the Steelers, but he's going to strictly play special teams this year, and he's by far more ready to play from day 1 then JJ is.


Why do those guys draft those players? Or keep them?
I long for the day that we can draft for depth. Some teams, you named 2, know what they are doing and have an identity and are good for long streches. Lets not pretend we are one of those teams. Those good teams have good players starting and can afford to wait and groom their players. Unfortuntly we dont have that luxury.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Am I the only one who wants Charles Woodson? I just don't think it's smart to expect Wilcox to start at Safety, that's going to end horribly. He's an incredible athlete. But he went to Georgia Southern so we see what level of competition he faced. And he played 1 year at Safety, prior to that he was moving all over the place on offense. I just don't think we can realistically expect a guy who moved from offense to Safety a few years ago, and had 1 year of experience at that level, can come in to the NFL starting from the get go.


Wilcox is obviously a much better athlete then Woodson is, but his experience and awareness, and his help developing Wilcox would be ideal. But I guess I should get used to us doing this unconventional.
Part of me wants him and part of me doesn't. I don't have any expectations for Wilcox this year. Then again, I have expectations that Church will suck.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Been saying this for years. Our Player Development sucks.
That is looking at it with the cup half empty. There's a lot of talent on this roster.

It would be one thing if the guys we didn't develop, went on and made a great career for themselves elsewhere, but I don't see a glaring issue there. It's more of a case of bad drafting/injury. Or inability to keep the player financially... but even in this case, that's us developing the player to that level.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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If the dead money doesn't go into next season, why would you care?

It's Jerry's money.
Dead money is counted against the cap. Like we're paying for him and he's not here.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Doug Flutie 2.0. Yuck.
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Manziel is overrated
Interesting to see these kinds of comments versus Pocketaces who thinks Manziel is Top 3, (Top 10 Lock).

I agree that Manziel is overrated and his size will cause him to fall in the draft. That's why I think he's going to be available for us later in Round 1 when all is said and done. I'm not sure Dallas would draft him (since Romo extended), but he is fun to watch and I'm looking forward to seeing him play again this year. He made me a big fan.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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firstly i did watch the games, and if you really think parnell is massive upgrade, you clearly weren't watching the line play.

clabo isn't on the street anymore, less than 10 days after the draft he has a job, plus the big reason he got cut was he was overapaid on a team that has some primetime players that it had to keep.

as for winston from what i've heard and read he's a better pass blocker than free but as a run blocker pretty much the same as doug free.

yes doug free was horrible the first 11-12 game but when the cowboys put parnell in there and made him have to compete to keep his job, he played better.

but this isn't just about who's better, the real crux of this free/winston ordeal is, is eric winston 11 million dollars better than doug free? b/c thats the sum of the dead money from cutting doug free and winston salary is going to cost.

this why the cowboys should have drafted a tackle
Winston in the run was awesome. Just ask Arian Foster.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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firstly i did watch the games, and if you really think parnell is massive upgrade, you clearly weren't watching the line play.
Other then the fact that Parnell played Left Tackle last year at a high level when Tyron Smith was out, which is much harder then Right Tackle and plays to Parnell's weaknesses which is quick speed rushers. Somehow he still managed to hold it down, and nobody even knew Tyron had came out of the game. If Doug Free had to move to LT Romo might have left on a stretcher. Did it ever cross your mind why we moved Parnell to the left side over Free? Considering Free was the former LT, signed a LT contract, and had way more experience playing on that side? But instead we put an undrafted guy in Parnell out there on the fly who had never started a game before on the blind side.


Just think about that for a minute.



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clabo isn't on the street anymore, less than 10 days after the draft he has a job, plus the big reason he got cut was he was overapaid on a team that has some primetime players that it had to keep.
Your right he isn't on the street anymore, but it's just terrible rationale to go "well why is he still on the streets then" in comparison to Free. Unless you think Matt Johnson is a better Safety then Kerry Rhodes.


Quote:
as for winston from what i've heard and read he's a better pass blocker than free but as a run blocker pretty much the same as doug free.

yes doug free was horrible the first 11-12 game but when the cowboys put parnell in there and made him have to compete to keep his job, he played better.

but this isn't just about who's better, the real crux of this free/winston ordeal is, is eric winston 11 million dollars better than doug free? b/c thats the sum of the dead money from cutting doug free and winston salary is going to cost.

this why the cowboys should have drafted a tackle

No Winston isn't the same as Doug Free in anything. To give you an idea of what PFF's grading scale is like, a good season for a RT would be +26, which is what Vollmer and Andre Smith came in at. Average would be right at 0.0, which is where Jake Long finished. Doug Free came in at -10, Winston came in at 15.1. Free ranked 66th/80 in 2011, and I believe he was 80th in 2012.


Winston was a top 5 RT in the league his last 3 years in Houston, and still played at a high level last year. He is a MASSIVE upgrade over Free. That's proven by statistics, grading scores, watching games, really any metric you want to use. It's also fabricated that Free did better his last 4 games, we just didn't notice as much suckage because Parnell played a huge number of snaps.


On your last point I do agree, that is the big question that needs to be answered. But whatever the solution is, there is no denying the type of upgrade Winston or Parnell would be, it's not close, and isn't going to be marginal. Free has been on a rapid decline for the last 2 years, anybody thinking he comes in better is fooling themselves. The good news is he's going to be cut since he doesn't want to restructure. I know dead money sucks, but so does ending your QB's career with a concussion.


I bet if we saw this again:








So classic Doug Free that they sent 3 rushers, he didn't block anybody, and we almost lost Romo for good on this play. How anybody can think that you can't easily get a massive upgrade over him is beyond me.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by pocketaces View Post
I long for the day that we can draft for depth. Some teams, you named 2, know what they are doing and have an identity and are good for long streches. Lets not pretend we are one of those teams. Those good teams have good players starting and can afford to wait and groom their players. Unfortuntly we dont have that luxury.
We could if we had that mantra. There were a ton of free agent safeties on the market that would make easing a guy like JJ Wilcox in seem relatively easy. It isn't like we need a stud there to do it, I just don't think all raw, small school players are good enough to start as a rookie. I don't mind rookies starting, but logic would tell me if you wait on a Safety, and take a guy like Wilcox, that you would seek out a veteran to at least teach him the ropes during training camp and let them battle for a starting position.


He doesn't even have a Safety on the roster with any experience to seek out for advice smh. It's just a recipe for disaster. Then if he fails we'll blame the player, when I think development has a lot more to do with how some of these smaller school guys pan out.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
We could if we had that mantra. There were a ton of free agent safeties on the market that would make easing a guy like JJ Wilcox in seem relatively easy. It isn't like we need a stud there to do it, I just don't think all raw, small school players are good enough to start as a rookie. I don't mind rookies starting, but logic would tell me if you wait on a Safety, and take a guy like Wilcox, that you would seek out a veteran to at least teach him the ropes during training camp and let them battle for a starting position.


He doesn't even have a Safety on the roster with any experience to seek out for advice smh. It's just a recipe for disaster. Then if he fails we'll blame the player, when I think development has a lot more to do with how some of these smaller school guys pan out.
Agreed on most of this except for a few caveats.

First there is a veteran of the system on the roster in Will Allen. He also started a few games for the Steelers last year due to injuries and acquitted himself well.

The second caveat is that Kiffin's defense is widely called "simple" in terms of assignments. He has taken mid-rounders previously and immediately slotted them into starting roles and it turned out just fine. See John Lynch (pick 82). This is much less of the complex schedule and more about the athleticism and ability to take good angles to attack the ball carrier.

I do have major reservations about our safety situation but the constant chatter of Matt Johnson and J.J. Wilcox in the build-up has me slightly less apprehensive. I will be watching that group like a hawk during preseason.
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Oh yea I completely forgot about Will Allen, that is better then what I thought at least. It also gives me some excitement that I believe Kiffin had a ton of input regarding the Safeties, I'm sure if anything he knows what he needs to run this scheme and knew we had no safeties when he signed, so while I don't expect him to perform miracles I think our scheme could limit what we ask of our Safeties and mask some of their weaknesses.


I just can't really get on board with the optimism of Johnson and Church until they do something on the field to make me go "ok these guys really can play".
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Oh yea I completely forgot about Will Allen, that is better then what I thought at least. It also gives me some excitement that I believe Kiffin had a ton of input regarding the Safeties, I'm sure if anything he knows what he needs to run this scheme and knew we had no safeties when he signed, so while I don't expect him to perform miracles I think our scheme could limit what we ask of our Safeties and mask some of their weaknesses.


I just can't really get on board with the optimism of Johnson and Church until they do something on the field to make me go "ok these guys really can play".
Yeah, Will Allen spent 4 years (I think) in Tampa with Kiffin too. So for some of the same reasons why I wanted Rhonde Barber here, Allen can help influence some of that. Tomlin had good things to say about Allen. But he's just a depth guy if we're being honest with ourselves.

Broaddus said he's never seen Dallas so excited about a guy who hasn't hit the field like they have been about Matt Johnson. When asked who are the common guys he sees in the weight room all the time at Valley Ranch he said Sean Lee, Matt Johnson and Danny Coale. That's a good sign at least.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys DBs coach Jerome Henderson admits third-round SS J.J. Wilcox is "light years" away from being an NFL contributor.


A previous report had Wilcox competing to start as a rookie, but winning a first-string job would be stunning. "Light years. Light years," Henderson said. "You have that coupled with the fact that the league he played in. He jumped into this league with only one year at the job." Wilcox was a defensive back for just one year at Georgia Southern. He's another Cowboys project.
Source: Fort Worth Star-Telegram
May 10 - 6:25 PM

Well there's that...
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Well there's that...
Indeed. His other quote is hilarious though.

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Quote of the day has to go to Jerome Henderson, who made this remark about third round pick, safety J.J. Wilcox.

"When you watch him play, you're like, ‘Oh God, he's going to kill somebody,' and that's what I like about the young man."
He'll probably push McCray off the roster as a special teams demon and work in some package roles playing downhill nearing the end of the season. If I were a betting man I would say Matt Johnson wins the FS spot and Barry Church plays at SS.

Keep an eye on Jakar Hamilton he has impressive measurables and his name popped up quite a few times from observers in the second practice. Brod was breaking down a play that he was in single-high coverage and was able to flip his hips and get to the sideline to make a play on a ball intended for Escobar down the sideline.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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I read B.W. Webb looked smooth out there today:

Per Broaddus-

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Cornerback B.W. Webb is as smooth in person as he is on tape. He is very loose and flexible in the way he covers. He can move sideways and not lose any speed. He is a hard guy to turn and run out of position. His transitions in and out of breaks is very smooth. If he there is one thing that I did notice is that he will need to develop and feel for where the receiver is in the route. He tends to keep his eyes on the quarterback and there was a couple of times where he played like he lost that feel without the ball coming in his direction.
He was one of my favorite picks, one of the more impressive small school guys that have come out the last few years IMO. I feel if he played at Michigan or Alabama he would have been a surefire 1st-rounder. I can't wait for him to take the nickel job from Scandrick, it's only a matter of time.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TheFinisher View Post
I read B.W. Webb looked smooth out there today:

Per Broaddus-



He was one of my favorite picks, one of the more impressive small school guys that have come out the last few years IMO. I feel if he played at Michigan or Alabama he would have been a surefire 1st-rounder. I can't wait for him to take the nickel job from Scandrick, it's only a matter of time.
Read the same thing :) I was ecstatic with that pick. Even when players on making plays on him they are still saying he was in position. Like in the second practice:

Quote:
I have to be honest, before this camp, I knew very little about wide receiver Jared Green but after today, I need to try and find out a little more about him. In a practice where the offense was not at its best, he was. There were several times in the one-on-one drills against the best cornerback in this camp, B.W. Webb where he was able to run his route with outstanding pace but more importantly finish it with a nice catch. He beat Webb three different times on an “In”, “Curl” and a “Slant”, all with really good technique. It wasn’t that Webb was playing him poorly, it was Green being that good. I kept waiting for Webb to try and lean on him a little bit and even on the slant, Green was able to fight through it.
Another UDFA WR trying to stake a claim on a roster spot? I love it.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:26 AM    (permalink
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Yea I loved the Webb pick, Mayock had been waiting for him to get picked for about a round already, and I definately think he'll save us some money to take over for Scandrick soon. I think he and Wilcox have starting ability for us at some point. Glad Webb looks good, somebody probably gets hurt at CB anyway so he'll play.
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