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Old 05-16-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
descendency
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David Fales is another great one for me. I keep forgetting there are people calling him a first round pick.
Top 10 pick*

I can understand why though. Many projections at this point are based on potential growth for the upcoming year. Fales has lots of upside to his game. He'll fall back if he doesn't step up.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I hope so, because stupid teams taking players that don't belong in the early part of the draft is how good teams get very good players.

If it weren't for the Bills taking EJ Manuel and the Browns taking Barkevious Mingo, how else would guys like Jarvis Jones have fallen to the Steelers.
I think Jones's 4.9 forty dropped him down as much as anything but i hear what you're saying about teams taking guys too early, happens every year it seems.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Top 10 pick*

I can understand why though. Many projections at this point are based on potential growth for the upcoming year. Fales has lots of upside to his game. He'll fall back if he doesn't step up.
See, it's the opposite for me. I think he looks pretty polished and technically sound, but his arm just doesn't cut it for me.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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I think Jones's 4.9 forty dropped him down as much as anything but i hear what you're saying about teams taking guys too early, happens every year it seems.
Not to mention his 30" VJ, 9'3" BJ, 20 rep BP, 4.71 short shuttle, and 7.43 three cone.

He couldn't have posted worse workout numbers unless you amputated a limb.
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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It wasn't his combine numbers that made him drop, it's the fact that those same numbers show when he plays. He's a poor athlete and wasn't that good of a prospect. He'll struggle to ever be a dynamic pass rusher in the NFL. Werner, Datone Jones and Carradine are all better than him.
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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then again, the guy he's presumably replacing, James Harrison, was a shade under 6', 240 lbs and ran something like a 4.85 coming out of Kent State.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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See, it's the opposite for me. I think he looks pretty polished and technically sound, but his arm just doesn't cut it for me.
His ball is very loose but he throws line drives with little air and good velocity.

If I were going to throw a name out there, it would be Logan Thomas. I swear people look at measurables and that's it. The kid can't hit a barn with a football, let alone a WR. Big arm, good measurables, terrible QB.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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His ball is very loose but he throws line drives with little air and good velocity.

If I were going to throw a name out there, it would be Logan Thomas. I swear people look at measurables and that's it. The kid can't hit a barn with a football, let alone a WR. Big arm, good measurables, terrible QB.
The thing about Fales is I dont think anyone is looking at him as an elite QB to come in and start from day 1. I have seen him being projected to go top 10 in mocks but he isnt consistently going in the top 10 in mocks. Unless you only follow Bleacher report because they absolutely love him. If Fales does go in the first round it will be late first and it will be to a team that wants him to sit the bench for a few years and develop. The only way he stands a chance at top 10 is if he has a better year this year then his junior year which i dont see happening.

I still say Bridgewater. No chance this guy is a cant miss franchise QB. He cant take a last place team and turn them into a playoff team like Luck did. Just no chance.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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The thing that confuses me about people who like Fales is how often they drop the "he's a developmental player" caveat, and then when they're praising his game they praise things like his poise, his intelligence, his anticipation, his ability to read and react to defenses, his accuracy, etc. In other words, they praise him for having the things which usually require development. What Fales is lacking he lacks physically, and this just goes back to all the debates about whether a player can significantly improve his arm strength. Lest I sound like I'm just looking for things to pick at, I'll say I like most everything about Fales except his arm strength, which at times hardly looks adequate for college football. He just doesn't look like he has an NFL arm to me, and sitting on the bench for a year or two isn't going to grow him one. If he can hack it in the NFL, I really think we'll know sooner rather than later. I also tend to think NFL GMs are going to feel the same, and at best he's going to be on a similar tier, as a prospect, to Tyler Wilson. Think Tyler Wilson's got a stronger arm, though. Fales has a bit better presence in the pocket from what I've seen.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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It wasn't his combine numbers that made him drop, it's the fact that those same numbers show when he plays. He's a poor athlete and wasn't that good of a prospect. He'll struggle to ever be a dynamic pass rusher in the NFL. Werner, Datone Jones and Carradine are all better than him.
He was drafted by the absolute best team for him. Pittsburgh will only ask him to do one thing, rush the passer on every play, the one thing he does very well. They will never ask him to drop into coverage, something he would be a disaster at.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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I don't understand the Bridgewater hate. He has elite touch and vision, as well as pocket presence. We're judging him at the college level, not NFL.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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I don't understand the Bridgewater hate. He has elite touch and vision, as well as pocket presence. We're judging him at the college level, not NFL.
I don't either. People are just looking to knock him for no reason. He has ALL the tools.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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I don't either. People are just looking to knock him for no reason. He has ALL the tools.
I think it happens when a guy goes into the season as a consensus top QB. Hell people were picking holes in Luck's game up until the draft and he was as good a QB prospect that I can remember.

Bridgewater does have holes in his game in the same way he has some elite traits. I think because it's so early you will have two defined camps on Bridgewater. Those who think he this amazing can't miss prospect, and those who think he is being overrated.

When we go through the season those camps will come closer together and I think Bridgewater will end up up somewhere in between, though closer to being a great prospect
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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I hate to say this, but Jadaveon Clowney might be a tad overrated in 2014.

Just because everyone is like "THE SECOND COMING OF <insert Hall of Fame player here>". I mean, the hype this kid is getting is ridiculous.

He's a good player, no doubt, and worthy of a top-5 selection, but people are treating him like he's the best pass rusher to come out of the draft in 20+ years. He's not THAT good.

I'd still take a good QB over him in the top-5.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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I hate to say this, but Jadaveon Clowney might be a tad overrated in 2014.

Just because everyone is like "THE SECOND COMING OF <insert Hall of Fame player here>". I mean, the hype this kid is getting is ridiculous.

He's a good player, no doubt, and worthy of a top-5 selection, but people are treating him like he's the best pass rusher to come out of the draft in 20+ years. He's not THAT good.

I'd still take a good QB over him in the top-5.
While I agree with you (OMGZZZ) on the last point, who is a better pass rushing prospect than Clowney in the last decade?
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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While I agree with you (OMGZZZ) on the last point, who is a better pass rushing prospect than Clowney in the last decade?
Only one who comes to mind is very arguably Julius Peppers.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Purely as a pro prospect coming out, I doubt anyone here had much negative to say about DE Mario Williams, so I don't know if Clowney is going to rate above him in the last decade.

However if the workout numbers coming out of South Carolina are close to accurate for him,(6'6, @275# and running in the 4.5s), it's going to be hard for a team that has at least an average starting QB to pass on Clowney.

In fact I wonder if there's a team willing to put together an RG3 type deal to move to the 1/1 spot to grab him.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Johnny Manziel and it won't even be close.
How did the thread not just end here.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Purely as a pro prospect coming out, I doubt anyone here had much negative to say about DE Mario Williams, so I don't know if Clowney is going to rate above him in the last decade.

However if the workout numbers coming out of South Carolina are close to accurate for him,(6'6, @275# and running in the 4.5s), it's going to be hard for a team that has at least an average starting QB to pass on Clowney.

In fact I wonder if there's a team willing to put together an RG3 type deal to move to the 1/1 spot to grab him.
As a prospect coming out, I think Clowney is going to absolutely crap on Mario Williams' combine numbers. As you've already pointed out he's been clocked in the 4.5s in the 40, which is just bananas.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't either. People are just looking to knock him for no reason. He has ALL the tools.
Plays in the big least? Level of competition. He is a good prospect and has all the tools but people seem to be hyping him up to the Andrew Luck level.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Purely as a pro prospect coming out, I doubt anyone here had much negative to say about DE Mario Williams, so I don't know if Clowney is going to rate above him in the last decade.

However if the workout numbers coming out of South Carolina are close to accurate for him,(6'6, @275# and running in the 4.5s), it's going to be hard for a team that has at least an average starting QB to pass on Clowney.

In fact I wonder if there's a team willing to put together an RG3 type deal to move to the 1/1 spot to grab him.
Everyone points to Mario's workout numbers to claim he was this can't miss prospect, yet up until like the second week of April in 2006 the draft was pretty much referred to as the Reggie Bush sweepstakes, in fact it was a shock that the Texans took Williams and Charley Casserly was widely panned for the choice at the time, many thought if not Bush they should have taken Vince Young. Now the choice worked out relatively well in hindsight but as far as prospects go Clowney >>>>> Williams
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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How did the thread not just end here.
Because it depends on what "overrated" means. Someone insisting that he's already shown enough to merit a top-5 selection is overrating him, but I really don't think it's unreasonable to consider him a player who can make it into that upper echelon if he makes the necessary strides this year as a passer. RGIII was considered by many to be more of a second-rounder until his junior year. I think Manziel could end up having a pretty similar career arc. I refuse to call a player overrated just because he's a runner. Cam Newton wasn't overrated, RGIII wasn't overrated, Russell Wilson was underrated, and Kaep turned out to be a great bargain after landing in the perfect situation for him. Manziel is in a "prove it" year this upcoming season, as far as the NFL is concerned, but doesn't mean he's overrated. He's gotten a lot of attention because he won the Heisman in spectacular fashion, and of course he's bound to get a lot of attention in draft circles. Every year the top scrambling quarterback gets a lot of "overrated" thrown at him, and at some point people are going to figure out the NFL is increasingly becoming suited for the skills of those players.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Marqise Lee. I like him, I just don't think he's big enough or fast enough to warrant the hype he's received. That's pretty much all there is to it.
Pretty much
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Everyone points to Mario's workout numbers to claim he was this can't miss prospect, yet up until like the second week of April in 2006 the draft was pretty much referred to as the Reggie Bush sweepstakes, in fact it was a shock that the Texans took Williams and Charley Casserly was widely panned for the choice at the time, many thought if not Bush they should have taken Vince Young. Now the choice worked out relatively well in hindsight but as far as prospects go Clowney >>>>> Williams
Reggie Bush and Mario Williams were the consensus top 2 prospects in 2006. Football analysts had a more difficult time figuring out where Vince Young would go, be he wasn't in that top group with Bush/Williams.

People busted Casserly's chops for passing on Reggie Bush, not for missing out on VY.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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People questioned Mario Williams motor.
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