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Old 05-20-2013, 07:39 AM    (permalink
Forenci
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Yeah, I really don't see how they're all "hopelessly naive" or "true believers."

Toby is a huge doubter of Bartlett and his ability to get things done. Josh is the more realistic politician, willing to do what it takes to get a win. CJ struggles with the politics vs the human situation.

They are certainly not all true believers. And the issue many have with Sorkin is that he can be preachy, but in a setting like this (White House, politics) it makes sense and is natural.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:01 AM    (permalink
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Toby is not a true believer at all. In fact the whole Toby/Bartlett MS debate is the exact opposite. Toby looks down on the president in that situation.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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#TeamToby!
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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I'm to the point where every episode of Fringe is a cliffhanger and I can't stop.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm to the point where every episode of Fringe is a cliffhanger and I can't stop.
Yeah, it kind of stays that way. Minus the final season, that was one great show.

Also, thanks for shooting down House of Cards, guys, I didn't want to have to watch it.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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i don't really see any way they can *all* be characterized as 'hopelessly naive' unless one is too busy letting the old 'left wing' moniker get in the way of reality. josh, in particular, doesn't remotely fit the description. ainsley isn't even slightly naive. sam? sure, hopelessly naive true-believer. but that's sort of his character. i'm not even thinking of half of the ways that was a demonstrably false statement. and none of that is even a defense of the show: if you don't like it, you don't like it, but there's no need to trot out decade old fox news memes in either case.
This. Not every character agrees with everything the administration does, in fact, there are numerous episodes and more often than not does at least 1 character disagree with something that is going on.

The point is that they believe in Bartlett and trust in him, therefore, they do what they can to voice their opinions but in the end realize he is the man that has to make the decision and while they might not agree, they publically need to support it/go along with it or resign. It's not like a White House is going to hire staff representing every possible political belief/opinion group to constantly debate issues. That's what the House is for.

That said, some of the stories/resolutions to issues are somewhat dumbed down or naive I think. But really, that's because they have to be for a TV show to succeed, you can't draw out some issues for like years at a time.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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I meant believers in the system, not necessarily in Bartlett and his administration. Even Toby, who's primary role is to disagree with things, truly believes in the capacity of good governance to genuinely help people. I have been meaning to re-watch West Wing and may do so this summer, cause it has been a couple years since I last saw it all.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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I meant believers in the system, not necessarily in Bartlett and his administration. Even Toby, who's primary role is to disagree with things, truly believes in the capacity of good governance to genuinely help people. I have been meaning to re-watch West Wing and may do so this summer, cause it has been a couple years since I last saw it all.
I don't think it's naive of the characters to think the system works. Why would they have entered into politics if they believed they couldn't get anything done? The system might need tweaking as nothing is perfect but from a character point of view they really do believe they can make a change in peoples lives and I think that's a good thing.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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I don't think it's naive of the characters to think the system works. Why would they have entered into politics if they believed they couldn't get anything done? The system might need tweaking as nothing is perfect but from a character point of view they really do believe they can make a change in peoples lives and I think that's a good thing.
I was just about to post this.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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One reason West Wing was awesome: it didn't jump the shark with Josh-Donna. That would have been awful for more than the final season.

Also, Team Toby ftmfw. **** the haters.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Wait, there are people who dislike Toby? Show them to me and I will end their miserable lives!

I was always TeamSam but then he left. Sadness.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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I was always TeamJosh. TeamSam would have been 3rd for me.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Some West Wing videos! Semi spoilery if you haven't seen the series, so watch at your own risk!

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Old 05-20-2013, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I was always TeamJosh. TeamSam would have been 3rd for me.
Over the course of the entire series I think I'm tied on TeamJosh and TeamToby, but for the first four I really liked Sam.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Wait, there are people who dislike Toby? Show them to me and I will end their miserable lives!

I was always TeamSam but then he left. Sadness.
Sadly, yes, those people exist. I don't quite understand it, either. I guess some people get annoyed by him easily, but it's all about Team Toby.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Sadly, yes, those people exist. I don't quite understand it, either. I guess some people get annoyed by him easily, but it's all about Team Toby.
Some of my favorite moments of the series is when Toby goes on a rant and starts yelling. I saw this one recently:

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Old 05-20-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I meant believers in the system, not necessarily in Bartlett and his administration. Even Toby, who's primary role is to disagree with things, truly believes in the capacity of good governance to genuinely help people. I have been meaning to re-watch West Wing and may do so this summer, cause it has been a couple years since I last saw it all.
I mean...they're liberal democrats. It would make less sense if they weren't true believers in the goodness of governance to help people.

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Some West Wing videos! Semi spoilery if you haven't seen the series, so watch at your own risk!

Hahaha. I loved the Butterball hotline. One of my favorite scenes. My favorite thing is always when Bartlett would start yelling at people. Cracked me up.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure if I'll be able to reconcile my desire to start West Wing with the fact that West Wing fans have trashed House of Cards.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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But HoC is terrible.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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House of Cards really is an awful TV show.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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Better than Newsroom.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Better than Newsroom.
Can you at least wait until July before we start this again?
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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Can you at least wait until July before we start this again?
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:36 PM    (permalink
SuperMcGee
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Best series of posts Brodie has had in a long time.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:37 PM    (permalink
vidae
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vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Better than Newsroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Can you at least wait until July before we start this again?
You've been here a long time, GF.. do you really believe that is something Brodeur can do? To be a nice man once in a while?

Out of his wheelhouse I'm afraid!!!!!!
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