Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Forum

Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Forum Discuss the Bucs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-20-2013, 11:33 PM    (permalink
bigbuc
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,811
Reputation: 149524
bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default Peppers or Revis?

Remember back in 2010 when we could have signed Peppers and teamed him up with a young rookie in McCoy. That year we went 10-6 missed the playoffs. Peppers signed with the Bears for 91 million.

This year we traded for Revis and gave him 16 Million a year. Also giving up a first round pick.


We still could have signed all the players we have but Revis if we had signed Peppers that off season. We've also been bottom in sacks all these years. So looking back on it.... Should have we just signed Peppers that off season? Or are you happy the way it has turned out for the Bucs?
bigbuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 01:43 AM    (permalink
bigfreak314
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: S.T.L.
Posts: 448
Reputation: 31233
bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigfreak314 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Wow guy, I don't think any fan would say we should not have signed Peppers but would JP have wanted to come here is a more likely question. I remember were outbid by the Redskins, thank goodness, for Albert Haynesworth the year before so that may have been a deterrent for the front office as well. Another hypothetical scenario from the butterfly effect would be would Dom have drafted Adrian Clayborn the following year to team up with him. We have seen what Julius did for Israel Idonije numbers, Clayborn is another high motor guy who had 7.5 sacks his rookie season so that number could of very well been double digits.
__________________


Sick Sig by the BONEKRUSHER


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raheem Morris
Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats and we'll keep looking at wins.
bigfreak314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 03:10 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,811
Reputation: 149524
bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfreak314 View Post
Wow guy, I don't think any fan would say we should not have signed Peppers but would JP have wanted to come here is a more likely question. I remember were outbid by the Redskins, thank goodness, for Albert Haynesworth the year before so that may have been a deterrent for the front office as well. Another hypothetical scenario from the butterfly effect would be would Dom have drafted Adrian Clayborn the following year to team up with him. We have seen what Julius did for Israel Idonije numbers, Clayborn is another high motor guy who had 7.5 sacks his rookie season so that number could of very well been double digits.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have signed Peppers. But from what I remember we didn't make a run for him. We were in the build in the draft mode. Morris said mid way in that season about signing Peppers because we didn't think a 10-6 season was going to happen. I would have loooooved to sign Peppers, but no way if Peppers was on this team Revis would be. Just not enough money to go around.
bigbuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 08:24 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 305
Reputation: 99473
DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The better question is, where would we be if Jon Gruden got his way, and drafted Aaron Rodgers in 2005 instead of Bruce Allen's choice..... Carnell Williams?


Not that Peppers wouldn't be nice.... but still.
DeadEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,440
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post
The better question is, where would we be if Jon Gruden got his way, and drafted Aaron Rodgers in 2005 instead of Bruce Allen's choice..... Carnell Williams?


Not that Peppers wouldn't be nice.... but still.
No. That was Gruden dude. Are you serious? Gruden brought Allen in so e could have full control. Allen is was ad always will be a cap specialist.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:49 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 305
Reputation: 99473
DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
No. That was Gruden dude. Are you serious? Gruden brought Allen in so e could have full control. Allen is was ad always will be a cap specialist.

Gruden didn't bring anyone "in".


The Glazers brought Bruce Allen in to reign in spending and get the cap situation under control..... and a top 5 pick RB is cheaper than a top 5 pick QB.

If you still have any doubt that I'm less than 100% correct on that, maybe you need to remember Bruce Allen's first move when he got settled in to the Redskins' GM position. He traded for veteran QB Donovan McNabb. But I guess that Gruden was behind the scene twisting his arm, right? Laughable. Here he went out and got Griese and Garcia, and tried to trade for Jake Plummer somewhere in between, all the while toiling on trying to develop mid/late round picks in Simms and Gradkowski when those players got hurt.


The hard truth for too many people here, because there are far too many sports dunce-caps in this town that have been infected by the likes of Steve Duemig and Martin Fennelly, is that Gruden had nowhere near the control many thought he had. Fact is, Bruce Allen thought, still likely thinks, he has a blueprint for winning. His daddy's. Remember the "over-the-hill gang"? Yeah.... that was George Allen. The preference for veterans is actually in Bruce Allen's blood. And you're going to sit there and somehow try to deny history and bloodlines?


That..... and I have heard it from Gruden's mouth that he regrets not being more forceful in drafting Rodgers. Fact is about that draft, is that Jon Gruden and Paul Hackett (QB coach at the time) flew out to California and had a secret private workout with Rodgers, and they wanted him badly, but Allen thought Williams was going to go to Chicago, and HE had him rated #1. Rodgers was told at a NY restaurant the night before the draft from Gruden, that he was going to be a Buc if he got to the #5 pick. Chicago went with Cedric Benson. At that point Allen trumped Gruden, as he felt his signing of Griese as well as Simms on the roster were plenty for Gruden to work with, while Gruden was plenty comfortable with Pittman, Alstott and Graham at RB. Bruce..... just like his daddy.... avoided the young QB.

Last edited by DeadEagle : 05-23-2013 at 11:56 PM.
DeadEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 04:57 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,811
Reputation: 149524
bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post
Gruden didn't bring anyone "in".


The Glazers brought Bruce Allen in to reign in spending and get the cap situation under control..... and a top 5 pick RB is cheaper than a top 5 pick QB.

If you still have any doubt that I'm less than 100% correct on that, maybe you need to remember Bruce Allen's first move when he got settled in to the Redskins' GM position. He traded for veteran QB Donovan McNabb. But I guess that Gruden was behind the scene twisting his arm, right? Laughable. Here he went out and got Griese and Garcia, and tried to trade for Jake Plummer somewhere in between, all the while toiling on trying to develop mid/late round picks in Simms and Gradkowski when those players got hurt.


The hard truth for too many people here, because there are far too many sports dunce-caps in this town that have been infected by the likes of Steve Duemig and Martin Fennelly, is that Gruden had nowhere near the control many thought he had. Fact is, Bruce Allen thought, still likely thinks, he has a blueprint for winning. His daddy's. Remember the "over-the-hill gang"? Yeah.... that was George Allen. The preference for veterans is actually in Bruce Allen's blood. And you're going to sit there and somehow try to deny history and bloodlines?


That..... and I have heard it from Gruden's mouth that he regrets not being more forceful in drafting Rodgers. Fact is about that draft, is that Jon Gruden and Paul Hackett (QB coach at the time) flew out to California and had a secret private workout with Rodgers, and they wanted him badly, but Allen thought Williams was going to go to Chicago, and HE had him rated #1. Rodgers was told at a NY restaurant the night before the draft from Gruden, that he was going to be a Buc if he got to the #5 pick. Chicago went with Cedric Benson. At that point Allen trumped Gruden, as he felt his signing of Griese as well as Simms on the roster were plenty for Gruden to work with, while Gruden was plenty comfortable with Pittman, Alstott and Graham at RB. Bruce..... just like his daddy.... avoided the young QB.
Do you have facts about this? Because the way you are talking you make it seem like you were in the war room.

What I remember about 2005 is that Gruden was head coach of the South. Williams was the best player on the field. Was great all week and come game time Gruden played him two snaps to hide him from the rest.

"Coach Gruden came up to me and said, 'I'm sorry but I wasn't going to be able to play.' He said that I was going to play the first two snaps," said Williams. "But I came down there to play. As the game was going on I asked Coach Gruden to stick me out there and he definitely wouldn't do it."

After the Senior Bowl concluded, Williams suspected that the Bucs, whose ground game ranked 29th last season, were seriously interested in drafting him, and that suspicion was confirmed a month later at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis.

"I got a slight feeling at the Senior Bowl, and then at the Combine, Coach Gruden called me over to the gate - I was going to run the 40. He said, 'I'm going to be calling you in a couple of weeks.' I said I'd be waiting for that phone call. That's when I felt like it was going to be a real good possibility that I was going to become a Buccaneer."

https://www.pewterreport.com/index.p...5:&Itemid=2 3

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ory?id=1974672


Not saying youu're wrong, but these make out a different story.
bigbuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 05:19 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,811
Reputation: 149524
bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post





At that point Allen trumped Gruden, as he felt his signing of Griese as well as Simms on the roster were plenty for Gruden to work with, while Gruden was plenty comfortable with Pittman, Alstott and Graham at RB. Bruce..... just like his daddy.... avoided the young QB.
Also after the 2004 season we were something like 29th in rushing.

Graham had 74 rushing yards for the season.
Alstott had 230 yards for the season.
Pittman was under 1,000.

So I don't think Gruden was ok with the RB's he had on this team.

To me Gruden and Allen lost their jobs because of no long term system in place to build a super bowl team. It was always spring a leak, fix the leak.
Remember when they got let go. The Bucs were the top 3 oldest teams in the league and capped out. With no young players to build on anything

Last edited by bigbuc : 05-24-2013 at 12:46 PM.
bigbuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
brasho
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,115
Reputation: 76817
brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post
The better question is, where would we be if Jon Gruden got his way, and drafted Aaron Rodgers in 2005 instead of Bruce Allen's choice..... Carnell Williams?


Not that Peppers wouldn't be nice.... but still.
I remember Gruden being all lovey dovey with Williams at the Senior Bowl and then also telling Williams before he ran that it didn't matter what he ran because the Bucs were still going to pick him.

I would have rather found out what would have happened if we went with my choice, Shawne Merriman and my RB preference, keeping Thomas Jones. Merriman was dynamic those first few years and Thomas Jones had a far better career than Williams did.
brasho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
brasho
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,115
Reputation: 76817
brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

There's also the mountains of evidence that show that Gruden hated, and always has, young QBs.
brasho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 05:36 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,440
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brasho View Post
There's also the mountains of evidence that show that Gruden hated, and always has, young QBs.
I remember hearing about Gruden flipping out when the McKay took Simms in 2003 in the 3rd round. He said something along the lines of never take a QB before consulting him.

That led to Gruden having more "control". He didn't take Rodgers because Gruden never seemed to have the patience to develop a young QB for some reason.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 06:37 PM    (permalink
bigbuc
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,811
Reputation: 149524
bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbuc is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The thing I most remember about the 2005 draft was when gruden said that Ware reminded him of a young Simeon Rice. Jon, you were so right! Ware ended up better.
bigbuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
brasho
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,115
Reputation: 76817
brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
The thing I most remember about the 2005 draft was when gruden said that Ware reminded him of a young Simeon Rice. Jon, you were so right! Ware ended up better.
And yet we still took a freaking running back...UGGGHHHHHH!
brasho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 03:05 PM    (permalink
brasho
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,115
Reputation: 76817
brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.brasho is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The truth is that Gruden saw a young Charlie Garner everytime he looked at Williams. I didn't see it. Garner was faster, quicker, and had far far far better hands. Cadillac was a little bit bigger (not as big as his listed 217 though-I think he shoved rocks in his pockets at the Combine because I remember a few years later he was talking about putting on muscle and getting his weight all the way up to 212) and other than the first three games of his career, wasn't even close to being in the same category as Garner.

I still remember the year before, they let Thomas Jones go in free agency and Bruce Allen quipped, "We'll see how he likes playing in Chicago come December." This despite the fact that Jones got $1 million a year less, and one year less on his deal than Garner did that offseason from the Bucs... and he wasn't coming off knee surgery... or nearly as old as Garner.

Gruden was like a great drug. He made you feel all good. Things were great, but he was killing us.
brasho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 08:59 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,440
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Yep. Gruden just couldn't replenish what was lost. Great coach but didn't like younger qbs to develop. Always seemed to go more veteran savvy til guys developed so they could contend.

That's why I see Gruden as a bit of a hypocrite with his qb camp show. He's going to talk rookie prospects up yet he had no patience to develop younger qbs.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 305
Reputation: 99473
DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
Do you have facts about this? Because the way you are talking you make it seem like you were in the war room.

What I remember about 2005 is that Gruden was head coach of the South. Williams was the best player on the field. Was great all week and come game time Gruden played him two snaps to hide him from the rest.

"Coach Gruden came up to me and said, 'I'm sorry but I wasn't going to be able to play.' He said that I was going to play the first two snaps," said Williams. "But I came down there to play. As the game was going on I asked Coach Gruden to stick me out there and he definitely wouldn't do it."

I heard it from someone who was in the war room, years after it went down, and I have no reason to not believe what was told to me. Here's what I believe to be true at this point:


Quote:
The process started with glowing reviews about Williams, as they did coach him in Mobile, and Williams really didn't need to be there.... but went anyway. That got him brownie points right away. Art Valero loved him and his work ethic. So did Rich Bisaccia, who was working with Art with the RB's a bit, even as Special Teams coach. As the process went on though, Rodgers stuck out on film to first Hackett, then Gruden. Then they made that covert trip to work out Rodgers on the West Coast (even trotted out Jerry Rice, one of Rodgers' idols growing up a 9ers fan to catch passes), and he impressed. At the time, the talk was about Rodgers or Alex Smith at #1, and the Bucs saw Smith as gimmicky, and had him rated in the Marianas Trench.... and later on Jason Campbell, whom they also got a look at in Mobile. They had Campbell rated in their top 10 players. Those were the only offensive players they considered in the top 10. I know. I thought the same thing.

They dropped Braylon Edwards because they were so confident in the Clayton and Galloway combo (Clayton coming off that strong rookie year), and they saw Ronnie Brown as a top 10 talent, but didn't like the 'diva' they saw in him, where Cadillac was more 'lunchpail'. That was it. The rest of their top 10 players were defensive players, which included Derrick Johnson, Carlos Rogers, Antrel Rolle, Demarcus Ware, Thomas Davis, Travis Johnson, and Erasmus James. Again.... I thought the same thing you're thinking.


The Bucs essentially had 4 factions going into the week of the '05 draft. Cadillac had Allen, Valero, Bisaccia, Ruston Webster (current Titans GM, and head player personel guy here at the time) and Bill Muir (OL coach) in his corner as their #1 guy. Gruden had him as a top 3 (I was told who he liked #2, but memory is hazy on that, I wanna say Rolle, who he saw as a Charles Woodson type or Ware, who he saw as a young Rice).

Then there was the Rodgers group, which included Gruden, Hackett, Richard Mann and Mark Dominik (personel dept at the time).

The other two factions in the house comprised Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli and Joe Barry for Derrick Johnson or Demarcus Ware and then Mike Tomlin (his second choice was Ware), Raheem Morris and Dennis Hickey (his second choice was D. Johnson) for one of the CB's, Rogers or Rolle.

The surprise here, kinda, is Thomas Davis. I guess he had support because they had just come off consecutive offseasons losing John Lynch and then Dwight Smith. While they liked Jermaine Phillips, there was uncertainty there, and he got push as a "trade back option" as a Lynch replacement or as a SLB. Kiffin was eyeing a "wrinkle" player in his scheme, and that was also why he liked Ware so much. He could line him up in a few spots and let him loose. Again..... I thought what you're thinking.


Ultimately, Kiffin, Hickey, Marinelli and Barry got onboard with the idea of Cadillac if they targeted Mike Patterson (DT), Lofa Tatupu or Barrett Ruud at LB with the next pick..... which they did, and got Ruud. The idea being to bleed clock on offense and then groom a stopper behind either Shelton Quarles at LB or to Patterson compete with newly signed Chris Hovan at UT to keep the defense strong. When that compromise happenned, it shifted the room. And in the end, Gruden was ok with the Cadillac pick, but it wasn't his first choice.

I still remember that whole draft vividly from a fans perspective, the info we all got and the links and talk at the time. Some of it was concrete true, but there was alot of misinformation leaked and alot was kept hidden... much more I'm sure still to this day. And it gave me a little insight on how front offices work in regards to drafting. It's about connections, and who knows who. Connect those dots, then make sense of it.


Bottom line, I believe the conversation I had more than some old news stories.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
After the Senior Bowl concluded, Williams suspected that the Bucs, whose ground game ranked 29th last season, were seriously interested in drafting him, and that suspicion was confirmed a month later at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis.

"I got a slight feeling at the Senior Bowl, and then at the Combine, Coach Gruden called me over to the gate - I was going to run the 40. He said, 'I'm going to be calling you in a couple of weeks.' I said I'd be waiting for that phone call. That's when I felt like it was going to be a real good possibility that I was going to become a Buccaneer."

https://www.pewterreport.com/index.p...5:&Itemid=2 3

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ory?id=1974672


Not saying youu're wrong, but these make out a different story.


Those stories have truth to them. At the times they were printed. The ESPN article, right after the Senior Bowl, correctly draws the link of the Bucs to Williams. And there was interest. I am not denying that, as Williams WAS their top rated RB on the "big board" if you will.... ahead of Benson and Brown. And the PewterReport link, well...... which coach has ever come to the podium after a draft and said..... "damn.... we didn't get the guy we wanted, and we settled for this guy, and he won't be as good, but we just have to suck it up."..... seriously? Every coach, in every city, after they acquire a new prospect in the draft.... are going to heap praise and hope for the future.


But again.... not saying they didn't want Williams, but Gruden wanted Rodgers.
DeadEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 01:20 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 305
Reputation: 99473
DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DeadEagle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brasho View Post
The truth is that Gruden saw a young Charlie Garner everytime he looked at Williams.

Not quite. Close. But not quite.


Gruden kept trying to force himself to believe that Michael Pittman was his Garner, and Williams was his Tyrone Wheatley. Cadillac couldn't catch a cold, and neither could Wheatley.


When really, Earnest Graham was his new Garner, but he didn't see it soon enough or use him to the full extent when he had the shot.
DeadEagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.