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View Poll Results: Who goes further this season from the NFC West?
San Francisco 58 45.31%
Seattle 70 54.69%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-23-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
Sportsfan486
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
They'll get by without Bruce Irvin and as of yet it's not clear about either suspension or back issues with Lynch but they should be able to navigate their way through the first part of the season.

The thing that i'm concerned with in Seattle, and i'm sure the Kool Aid drinkers are going to disagree, is the offensive line. Any major injuries to Okung or Unger and they're going to be in trouble. As it is the line was overrated last year, especially in the passing game, as Wilson spent most of his time running for his life.

On a sidenote the Rams were 2-1-1 against both these teams so they're probably wondering why they aren't in the conversation.
And 5-7 against everyone else.

I like the Seahawks more; better offensive weapons and better secondary makes up for a lesser OLine and lesser front seven on D. It's a passing league.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Who has a better chance to regress this season, Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick?
My team made him look like Usain Bolt out there.
But I still think defenses will figure out and start to defend that stuff better.
I have more faith in Russ sustaining his fine play.

And you can't predict injuriezzz.
But SF was remarkably healthy last year.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Wilson is better in my eyes and he has a really strong edge in weapons. Kaep really needs the QB run plays to keep the defense off him. Wilson is a good runner but he isn't half the running threat Kaep is. Both have expectaions that are way too high. It's Superbowl or bust for both teams with essentially second year QBs.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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This is tough cause I expect both young QBs to struggle this year, Wilson does have better weapons, but I actually kinda expected him to struggle more than kaep before crabs got hurt and I trust the 9ers D more.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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This is tough cause I expect both young QBs to struggle this year.
For real?

Personally, I hope both teams are still up there because this is a great rivalry and I look forward to them playing each other.

I just hope the Niners get out to an 0-1 start though........

The poll results thru 35 votes here is intawesting.....
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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Intellectually I think it is going to be Seattle, they have a top D, possibly the best RB not named Adrian Peterson, and a franchise QB. However since I live in WA, I know that the gods of sports hate us and will find some way to screw them over. So for that I picked San Fran.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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This is a tough one, on one hand I have concerns with the 9ers, on the other hand I have concerns with the Hawks.

The main determinant will be the QB play. Can both of these QBs come in and perform at the same level or better than they did last year, or will they have a sophomore slump in their 2nd season as starters?

I'd give the 9ers the upper hand in coaching and most positional categories. I think the real question is just how they respond to the hype and with the success they had last season.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:38 AM    (permalink
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My biggest concern is SF's secondary. An incredible front 7 obviously can help mask it and they play a lot of Cover 2 to mask it, but it's still a concern.

No team is perfect though. I just like Seattle a little bit more. Love Seattle's defense so much.
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Old 05-31-2013, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Mark Sanchez makes in 5 quarters what Russ Wilson makes over the whole season. Therefore, 49ers.
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
My biggest concern is SF's secondary. An incredible front 7 obviously can help mask it and they play a lot of Cover 2 to mask it, but it's still a concern.

No team is perfect though. I just like Seattle a little bit more. Love Seattle's defense so much.
I think that's a valid point. Nnamdi may turn out to be decent for them, but I wouldn't count on it.

Other notes:
The 49ers don't have the WRs that Seattle does, but I think they do a better job of getting the WRs open.

I have concerns with the Seahawks O-Line, they have some guys with potential that haven't lived up to it yet but lack some depth if anything happens. The 49ers could move around and likely be close to the same.

My complete roster breakdown according to position (based on a combination of starters, and when close factoring in depth as well)

QB: 49ers - Neither seems to have a real capable backup, but I'd feel better with McCoy than Quinn
RB: Seahawks - This largely depends on if Lattimore plays or not, I think he'll sit. The Hawks get the nod due to having big powerful backups like their starter.
WR: Seahawks
TE: 49ers
O-Line: 49ers

D-Line: Seahawks
LB: 49ers
CB: Seahawks
S: Seahawks
ST: 49ers

Coaching: 49ers

Edge: 49ers by coaching
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Old 05-31-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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might as well post it someplace so people can make fun of me when i'm wrong, but i really think wilson regresses this year. not like, falling off a cliff, but i just feel like he'll look more ordinary. *shrug*
Look at njx trying to ride on my thunder.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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For real?

Personally, I hope both teams are still up there because this is a great rivalry and I look forward to them playing each other.

I just hope the Niners get out to an 0-1 start though........

The poll results thru 35 votes here is intawesting.....
Well it's kinda the thing that young QBs do. Especially guys who use their athleticism a lot in year 1 and get handed a lot more responsibility in year two, and even more especially when both really only had half a year of awesome play. I think it's almost a lock that one of them "disappoints" this year and personally I think it could be both of them.

Actually have a gut feeling that the Rams might sneak through this division if they get lucky with their health and the 9ers D doesn't go ape. But haven't wanted to talk about if on the NFL forum because I have no intention of getting into the shitstorm such a statement would lead to...
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I actually like the Rams, too. They've got a better defense than I think a lot of people realize, and drafting Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey was just what they needed on offense. Tavon will give them a big boost in their return game, too. The Rams basically loaded up on "my guys" this draft, taking Tavon and Bailey early, and then bringing in Zac Stacy later. (and Phillip Steward as a UFA). I've still heard a lot of people talking like the Rams are in dire straits at running back, but I've also been hearing positive things about Stacy in the little I've heard coming out of rookie minicamps and OTAs. He won't have to be Alfred Morris for that to be an improved offense next year, but he'll have to be pretty good. I think he can be. He never had much help at Vanderbilt and ran against a lot of stacked defenses, he's got pretty good hands and the Rams receivers are going to make defenses play them honestly for the first time in years. I see the Rams, going into this next year, as a team that might kind of get shrugged off by some people (or teams) because everyone's just used to them being a weaker team, but the pieces they got this offseason were exactly what they needed and they've got some other young guys from prior years coming into their own, too, like Janoris Jenkins, Chris Givens, Lance Kendricks, Robert Quinn and Michael Brockers.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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I think the whole division is absolutely filthy on defense. I think St. Louis will largely depend on Bradford. There's no more excuses. It's put up or shut up time.

Your faith in St. Louis basically comes down to your belief in Bradford. I personally like Bradford, but I also like Kaep and Wilson more than him.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I think Bradford will out perform at least one of those two next year.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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He has to if he wants to stay there. He has no choice but to have a great year. If he doesn't, he's gonna get replaced.
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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QB: 49ers (our QB coaching is great and i think Colt McCoy could Alex Smith it while Quinn is garbage, Kaep and Wilson are about equal)
RB: Equal (both teams have great starters and great depth)
TE: 49ers
WR: Seahawks (if Crabs were healthy this would be a tie)
OL: 49ers

DL: tie (both teams made paper acquisitions, both had strong DL last year, and both let FA's go- 49ers with RJF, and Seahawks with Alan Branch)
LB: 49ers
DB: Seahawks (S and CB easily to SEA imo)

ST's- ? Maybe tie, although our K and P are pimps.
Coaching: 49ers

SEA: Their run defense sucked in the 2nd half of last year, they couldn't get a consistent pass rush, and had no explosiveness on offense. Enter Avril, Bennett, Harvin, Harper, and Michael. Does this solve their problems, or do the acquisitions make no impact?

SF: Their Secondary got torched, they had no depth in the front 7, needed more offensive weapons, and their ST's sucked ass (SB TD). Enter Aso and Reid for Secondary, Dorsey, Carradine, Lemonier for front 7 depth/pass rush, McDonald, Patton, and Boldin for their offensve weapons, and Dawson, Skuta, Moody, and Dahl for ST's. Does this solve their problems, or do the acquisitions make no impact?

And of course, both teams QB's have little experience. Wilson has 18 starts, Kaep 10.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Honestly I like SF more but I wouldnt be surprised if both teams disappoint...freakin monster hype train in the NFC west, which is something i never thought id say
This is the truth... 5 years ago the NFC West was easily the worst division... that time period after the rams were good... until maybe like 3 years ago.. minus the kurt warner cardinals... they were ALL BAD
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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OFFENSE

QB: Seahawks. Call me a homer, but I think RW's style is less likely to be impacted by defenses figuring him out. He's very intelligent and accurate and is the type who can diagnose a defense and make the right play. That's a recipe for non-regression. With Kaepernick we've seen a lot more from him as a runner and less from him as a manager. Which is fine, and part of that is he only had ten starts. I think it's fair to call it a wash, but I prefer Russell.

HB: I'm actually much more concerned about seeing regress at running back than I am at quarterback, and this applies for both teams. Both teams have elite starters who are about due to start slowing down. Depth is again comparable, although I loved Christine Michael as a prospect and didn't really like LaMichael James. So I'd be leaning Seahawks again on this one, but Michael's already had some hamstring issues in camp and that worries me, too. I'd probably have to call this one a wash as well. Both teams have a good blocking fullback.

TE: 49ers. This is pretty easy, although I like Zach Miller and I'm excited to see what Luke Willson can do. Vernon Davis is a pretty special one, and Vance McDonald was one of, if not my favorite tight end in this class. The 9ers have got some weapons here.

OL: 49ers. Seattle's got a couple really good players and a couple big question marks. San Fran's got the really good players too but doesn't have such a big dropoff at the other spots.

WR: Seahawks. I would've given this to the Seahawks even if Crabtree was healthy. It's a young group, but there's a lot of talent. Golden Tate, Sidney Rice, Doug Baldwin and Percy Harvin has got to be one of the better 4-deeps in the league. That's a solid player for every aspect of the passing game. You've got Percy in the slot (and wherever else you want), Golden Tate and Sidney Rice stretching the field vertically, and Doug Baldwin as reliable depth. The 49ers just don't have that depth. I think Boldin is going to have a big year, but there's not much behind him and he's not a deep threat. Mario Manningham is probably SF's second-best receiver right now, and he's about on par with our no. 4.

DEFENSE

Defensive line: 49ers. For this category I'm basically considering the 49ers 3-4 ends, tackles, and the Seahawks DTs + Red Bryant. It's pretty close, but I think SF's defensive heavies are just a little tougher to move.

Pass rush: Seahawks. Aldon Smith is awesome, but this year Seattle is going to be relentless with the pressure and will be brining it from all angles, all game, and the fact that it's going to be coming from so many places instead of just one player is what makes me give them the edge. Even if Chris Clemons isn't the same, Bruce Irvin should take a step up, Cliff Avril is proven, and I think Michael Bennett is going to be an improvement over Jason Jones as a DE/DT rusher.

Linebackers: 49ers. This one doesn't really require an explanation.

Defensive backs: Seahawks. Neither does this.

Special Teams: 49ers get the punter, but Seattle's got a better kicker and the addition of Percy Harvin as a returner swings the balance to the 'Hawks.

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Old 05-31-2013, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Good breakdowns fruitcakes.... here's the thing, and we all know it: a lot of those things are going to change based in injuriezzz, which cannot be predicted.
I do know SF was incredibly healthy last year, and as stated before, those things tend to even out.... Crabtree gets them off to a very bad start on the injury front early.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Pass rush: Seahawks. Aldon Smith is awesome, but this year Seattle is going to be relentless with the pressure and will be brining it from all angles, all game, and the fact that it's going to be coming from so many places instead of just one player is what makes me give them the edge. Even if Chris Clemons isn't the same, Bruce Irvin should take a step up, Cliff Avril is proven, and I think Michael Bennett is going to be an improvement over Jason Jones as a DE/DT rusher.
I think you gave a pretty honest assessment overall, which I give you a lot of credit for avoiding any heavy homerism. But I think you are way off on pass rush.

A healthy Aldon Smith and Justin Smith are dominant pass rushers. Add to that proven solid rushers in Ahmad Brooks and Parys Haralson and the potential of Tank Carradine and Corey Lemonier, and I think this is clearly in the the 49ers court. The Seahawks have a Bevy of injured pass rushers (Bennett and Clemons), a suspended 2nd year pass rusher who had on ok rookie season, and Cliff Avril who is a good but not great speed rusher.

49ers should have the better pass rush, which I think is huge for them.

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Old 06-01-2013, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Three points.

1) If Bradford's new weapons help him take any sort of legitimate step forward, the Rams are right there.

2) Justin Smith was a Dpoy candidate the past two seasons and a huge reason for their dominance on d, allowing smith to see 1v1s which helped the secondary in a huge way. He's 34 in sept and coming off an injury that severely affected his play. They lost their FS and replace him with a rookie. Reid might be ok and smith might fully recover to his pre injury form at age 34. But those are legitimate ifs and to bet that both of those questions are answered fully and positively is unwise given the circumstances. Their defense isn't going to be as good in all likelihood.

3) The QBs answer this question ultimately. San Fran is dealing with an entirely new offseason situation. It's a dramatically different look and feel from the past two years. What does that mean? We'll see. But it's undoubtedly different. And losing Crabtree hurts a lot. He and kap shared a special rapport and I think it's silly to assume Boldin can fill that void. Q was special in the postseason but from a week to week basis he was nothing more than an above average possession option for Baltimore during the reg season. Jenkins, Patton, they matter more than we think.

Harbaugh is a special coach but this may prove to be his most challenging year yet. And fangio.

One team has to answer questions to remain at the top while the other ascended late and has done nothing but add talent since.

Did Philly suck after spending similarly to the way the Seahawks did this offseason? Yes. But that doesn't mean this team will falter. This team has RW who by all accounts has better intangibles and leadership qualities than Vick. That team had a bunch of moving parts on D, including rcb and a questionable dc. This team changed nickel, will, and DT, and added pass rushers.

The vegas win total for Seattle is going to be ridiculously high - like 11 or something, and everyone who says under is going to use the "hype spenders don't ever live up to it" argument. Sometimes they don't, and there are sometimes similar reasons that have yo do with pressure and complacency in each situation that lead to the demise of a team. However, each situation should be judged for what it is - not lazily compared to fit some narrative.

Seattle.

Here comes the shitstorm.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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Because they're the Rams.

Also, voting for SF just on principle that I think Wilson will not perform at the same level as last year. Just a gut feeling, no real reason for it.
If you think the Rams are the same old patsies then you haven't been paying attention. I don't think this is the year they take the division, but they are now in the top 10 in the league in level of talent, and are within a year or two of being a perennial contender.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Saying "They're the Rams! They can't be good!" sounds about as dumb now as saying "They're the 49ers! They can't be good!" sounded 3+ years ago.

Any team in the NFL can be an elite top-5 team. All it takes is an influx of talent and literally any franchise can become a marquee power.

The Patriots used to be one of the worst franchises in the league, and then Bill Parcells came in and drafted some guys with talent, and in the mid90s they became a good team. Belichick came in and took them even further.

There's no reason why the Rams can't become a dynasty in the next 5 years. Or the Browns, for that matter. Or any laughingstock franchise. All it takes is a few good drafts to shift the balance of power in the NFL.

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Old 06-01-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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I think that's a valid point. Nnamdi may turn out to be decent for them, but I wouldn't count on it.
Nnamdi is complete trash. He's a bad teammate and a bad player. Whereas before, he still had speed and the ability to lock down WRs, he has no speed anymore and will get burnt with regularity. And without the ability to play anymore, he's actually a net negative even if he never sniffs the field, because his aloof attitude and finger-pointing and excuse-making poisons the rest of the locker room.

If I'm a 49er fan I am seriously concerned about that secondary. I basically see no elite talent, or anything even close to top-level talent, in that secondary. Their best DB was Dashon Goldson and he's gone. Eric Reid is a rookie and there is NO rookie DB that plays well in their first season. Not even the greats like Deion Sanders, Rod Woodson, Darelle Revis played exceptionally well in their rookie seasons, and I know for certain that Eric Reid is no Sanders, Woodson, or Revis. The rest of their guys are aging vets who you cannot count on to have top-level seasons (Nnamdi, Rogers, Whitner) or average starters that benefit from playing zone coverage (Tarrel Brown, Chris Culliver).
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