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Old 06-02-2013, 03:56 AM    (permalink
niel89
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Those numbers remind me of the numbers that Aikman put up on a great and balanced offense with good OL and running game.
Also remind me a little bit of the numbers the Super Bowl winning Tom Brady put up in his first couple of years anyway.
And that is why stats lie. Alex Smith has never and will never be on par with either of those two. Smith played well in a favorable situation, but he was never really exceptional.
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
phlysac
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I just dislike the circular logic and rationale that often accompanies the Smith criticism.


He sucks. Crabtree sucks. VD is overrated. The O-Line sucks. Mike Nolan Sucks. Mike Singletary sucks.

to now...

Good receiver situation. Best O-Line in football. Good coaching put him in a good situation. He sucks.


Maybe the good coaching resulted in everyone's talents being better... INCLUDING Smith, not in spite of him.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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I just dislike the circular logic and rationale that often accompanies the Smith criticism.


He sucks. Crabtree sucks. VD is overrated. The O-Line sucks. Mike Nolan Sucks. Mike Singletary sucks.

to now...

Good receiver situation. Best O-Line in football. Good coaching put him in a good situation. He sucks.


Maybe the good coaching resulted in everyone's talents being better... INCLUDING Smith, not in spite of him.
I can see Alex Smith leading KC to 8-10 wins, hardly a disaster, but I still think he is just efficient at what he does but not a great QB.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Smith is better than anything they would have gotten in the draft and will probably maintain a decent level of QB play for the next several years. Smart move IMO bc Smith is the maximum level of QB play that the Chiefs would have gotten had they drafted someone (unless one of these QBs suprise us).
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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But at least a drafted QB has a chance to be a special QB. Smith is what he is. He will be a decent starter who will maybe give you a chance to contend if you surround him with an elite team.

I'm not saying Smith sucks at all but he simply has reached his potential at this point and it isn't a Superbowl quality level. Smith got the bum end of a lot of bad coaching early in his career, but the last two years Harbaugh really did wonders to finally utilize the talent they had. The offense has a great balance. Smith just isn't a guy I can put the game on his shoulders like the great QBs in the league.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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But at least a drafted QB has a chance to be a special QB. Smith is what he is. He will be a decent starter who will maybe give you a chance to contend if you surround him with an elite team.

I'm not saying Smith sucks at all but he simply has reached his potential at this point and it isn't a Superbowl quality level. Smith got the bum end of a lot of bad coaching early in his career, but the last two years Harbaugh really did wonders to finally utilize the talent they had. The offense has a great balance. Smith just isn't a guy I can put the game on his shoulders like the great QBs in the league.
This is what I'm talking about...

"Super Bowl quality level."

How much different is NFC Championship game level? He didn't have a GREAT NFCCG but he was ST blunders away from being exactly what you say he'll "never" be.

Also, the game was put on his shoulders very, VERY few times... and in my opinion, those were his best games.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Smith is better than anything they would have gotten in the draft and will probably maintain a decent level of QB play for the next several years. Smart move IMO bc Smith is the maximum level of QB play that the Chiefs would have gotten had they drafted someone (unless one of these QBs suprise us).
Oooh you can look into the future??
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Oooh you can look into the future??
You could say this to 99% of the things posted on this forum.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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the Alex Smith bashing on here is totally irrational. He's easily the best quarterback that was available to the Chiefs this offseason and he fits what they want to do. the fact that he played poorly his first couple of years did not mean he couldn't improve, and it doesn't mean he can't still improve. Again - Drew Brees is someone to keep in mind. The Chargers drafted Philip Rivers because they thought they "knew what he was," but as of today, who would you rather have? It's never as cut and dry as some people want to make it out to be. Alex Smith obviously didn't light the world on fire as a rookie, but he's improved steadily throughout his career and was headed for his best yet before getting injured and losing his spot to Harbaugh's personal choice. It's not because Smith couldn't win.

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Old 06-02-2013, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Oooh you can look into the future??
Trololol

I can make a prediction that Alex Smith will have a better next couple of years than any QB available to them in the second round and up. I don't think that is too far of a stretch either.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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the Alex Smith bashing on here is totally irrational. He's easily the best quarterback that was available to the Chiefs this offseason and he fits what they want to do. the fact that he played poorly his first couple of years did not mean he couldn't improve, and it doesn't mean he can't still improve. Again - Drew Brees is someone to keep in mind. The Chargers drafted Philip Rivers because they thought they "knew what he was," but as of today, who would you rather have? It's never as cut and dry as some people want to make it out to be. Alex Smith obviously didn't light the world on fire as a rookie, but he's improved steadily throughout his career and was headed for his best yet before getting injured and losing his spot to Harbaugh's personal choice. It's not because Smith couldn't win.
His "best year yet" last season included scoring less than 14 points 3 times in 7 games. Therein lies the problem with any argument defending Smith. He doesn't consistently score enough points while commanding an offense. He was able to build up a robust QB rating because he faced more 8 man boxes and takes more sacks on a pressure basis than any other QB in the league. His game is built around managing, and 7 years into his career he has never proven capable of commanding even a slightly above-average passing offense.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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I agree Smith was the best short term option that they could have gotten this offseason, but I don't think they will get any long term success from him. I think he is at best a very good stop gap for a couple years for them but I think pick #33 was more valuable. The Chiefs are a much better team with him and I think they are possibly a playoff team this year, but I don't think it was a good trade in the long term.

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This is what I'm talking about...

"Super Bowl quality level."

How much different is NFC Championship game level? He didn't have a GREAT NFCCG but he was ST blunders away from being exactly what you say he'll "never" be.

Also, the game was put on his shoulders very, VERY few times... and in my opinion, those were his best games.
I don't see Alex Smith ever becoming a top 10 quality QB and I think that is generally what is needed to win now days. The exception is if you have an elite team everywhere else like the 49ers did in 2011. Their defense was exception and they could run the ball, but Smiths limitations as a QB held that team back. He rarely had the team on his back because they wouldn't win consistently that way.

I think Alex Smith is a very good QB who can play mistake free football and be a great game manager, but there very few situations in the NFL where a game manager still valuable. You have to have the defense, run game and special teams. The 49ers were one of those situations, but they upgraded to a QB who allowed them to attack defenses more in the deep passing game and the run game and their offense improved greatly.

He has a really good opportunity in KC with the talent and HC they have, but I still have strong reservations about his ability to lead them to success and the value of the trade for him.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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I don't see Alex Smith ever becoming a top 10 quality QB and I think that is generally what is needed to win now days. The exception is if you have an elite team everywhere else like the 49ers did in 2011. Their defense was exception and they could run the ball, but Smiths limitations as a QB held that team back. He rarely had the team on his back because they wouldn't win consistently that way.
That isn't necessarily true. Smith orchestrated six comeback wins in the fourth quarter in 2011, and outshined Drew Brees in a playoff game. When the team was in a bind, Smith usually helped win the game and provided enough points when needed.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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If Alex can put up 8 wins this year, that 2014 conditional 3rd becomes a 2nd.

Proceed with your Alex Smith arguments.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:32 AM    (permalink
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If Alex can put up 8 wins this year, that 2014 conditional 3rd becomes a 2nd.

Proceed with your Alex Smith arguments.
Good god I completely forgot that there was more than just the #33 this year. I fully believe the Chiefs could win 8 games so they could be giving up 2 second rounders, and one of those was essential a 1st this year. Its just a short sighted move. I am glad though because it means more good picks for the 49ers (I still root for the local team most of the year.)

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Old 06-03-2013, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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If he takes a 2-win team to 8 wins the next year does that not say something about his ability to play and lead his team, especially with a new team, new coaching staff, and new system? Or does it just say that any QB could have won 8 games with that team and Andy Reid as the head coach?

Tell me, critics...what could Alex Smith do to prove himself as a good NFL quarterback?
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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Tell me, critics...what could Alex Smith do to prove himself as a good NFL quarterback?
Nothing. His critics will always find a reason other than his play for his success. It will be coaching, supporting cast, luck, one year wonder... it'll be endless.

But if he ever struggles it will be 100% his fault and only his fault.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs were clearly more talented than a standard 2 win team. A lot of people pegged them as a possible playoff team, but ultimately their HC and awful QBs killed them. They didn't have a QB that should ever see meaningful snaps. With better QB play their wins should increase quite a bit.

Alex Smith is a good QB, but he isn't anything above a starter. He isn't special in any way and has never lead anything better than a pretty good passing offense. He isn't dangerous in any way. Alex Smith is good, but just good isn't enough at QB in the NFL.

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His "best year yet" last season included scoring less than 14 points 3 times in 7 games. Therein lies the problem with any argument defending Smith. He doesn't consistently score enough points while commanding an offense. He was able to build up a robust QB rating because he faced more 8 man boxes and takes more sacks on a pressure basis than any other QB in the league. His game is built around managing, and 7 years into his career he has never proven capable of commanding even a slightly above-average passing offense.
You summed this up better than I. He just doesn't run a great passing offense.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
He just doesn't run a great passing offense.
Mike Nolan... known for aerial mastery.

Mike Singletary... physical with an F!!!

Jim Harbaugh... instant success. And even Andrew Luck threw it less than half the time under Harbaugh.
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:43 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
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Nothing. His critics will always find a reason other than his play for his success. It will be coaching, supporting cast, luck, one year wonder... it'll be endless.

But if he ever struggles it will be 100% his fault and only his fault.
Well when his play is actually consistently good for the first time in his career we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:02 AM    (permalink
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Good god I completely forgot that there was more than just the #33 this year. I fully believe the Chiefs could win 8 games so they could be giving up 2 second rounders, and one of those was essential a 1st this year. Its just a short sighted move. I am glad though because it means more good picks for the 49ers (I still root for the local team most of the year.)

Yes , hopefully the Chiefs win half of their games.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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The Chiefs were clearly more talented than a standard 2 win team. A lot of people pegged them as a possible playoff team, but ultimately their HC and awful QBs killed them. They didn't have a QB that should ever see meaningful snaps. With better QB play their wins should increase quite a bit.

Alex Smith is a good QB, but he isn't anything above a starter. He isn't special in any way and has never lead anything better than a pretty good passing offense. He isn't dangerous in any way. Alex Smith is good, but just good isn't enough at QB in the NFL.

You summed this up better than I. He just doesn't run a great passing offense.
No they weren't. The Chiefs didn't even have a lead in a game til like week 10. 10 of their losses were by double digits. That is more than just coaching and a QB. Do they have some decent players? Sure, but they still have some work to do.

I wouldn't classify Smith as "good". I mean, basically, the Chiefs have an average QB for a few years.

It wouldn't shock me the least bit to see the Chiefs win 8 games though to be honest. Other than the Broncos, the division is weaksauce(The Raiders are the complete worst), they play a last place schedule in a weak AFC. I would call 8 wins their ceiling though, with more realistic 6-10 record.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Smith is a solid caretaker qb if you have a talented roster. And that's fine and all, but let's call it what it is, he's a caretaker.

And me personally, I don't want that. It's football pergatory. 8-8 or 10-6 and 1 playoff win doesn't really do anything for me.

You want a championship. I've beaten this dead horse before, so I'll leave it be. But I just don't view Smith as a qb who's capable of winning a championship, and that's why I had a problem with the move.

If you want to establish a winning culture and take steps towards a championship by first getting into respectable territory than Smith is perfectly fine. But groom a guy behind him. Don't make him the face of the franchise.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Although to be fair, if this read option phenomenon isn't just a gimic and has staying power in the NFL, then my evaluation on quarterbacks and their impact and importance to the overall team and it's chances of winning a ring will change.

Bc that evens the playing field quite a bit btw teams with average qbs vs teams with elite qbs.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Adam Schefter reporting that JPP needs back surgery this month. Apparently he played with multiple epidural injections throughout the season. As someone who has had epidural injections before I have question to ask;

How the hell did he manage to play at any kind of level last year?
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