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Old 06-27-2013, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Do you know what I have in common with Hines Ward, Isaac Bruce, Reggie Wayne, and Donald Driver?

We're all 6'0" tall and none of us are getting into the HOF.
Bruce deserves to get in before the fraud that is Torry Holt.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
Newton in now way shape or form should be considered a potential HOF yet... he turns the ball over A TON.. and despite his "sexy" stats he isnt able to produce wins... plain and simple a great QB should be able to muster some wins.. Even players like Dan Marino granted he never won a SB he still made the Dolphins a legitmate playoff team year in an year out with little help around him.


And injuries to RG3 already make him a risky pick because lets say he has 3-4 more good years similar to his rookie year wouldnt matter if he only has a shelf like of 6 years or so...

I mean players like Terrell Davis come to mind, nothing but excellence and accomplishments you could ask for but longevity is what hurts his case. And RG3 is already showing his playing style is not going to last with his build. The one thing Newton has is the ability to run around and take the hits because he is built like a tank.
The guy was drafted to a **** situation and the team is clearly more competitive with newton. He's shown elites tools over two years. Hall of fame? Its been two years, who knows. But to say he cant be good because he hasn't willed a below average team to an above average record is unfair.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
I don't mean for it to be the deciding factor, i'm saying that to me, that would solidify him as a HOFer. Not in the minds of the actual voters, just mine. Sorry for the confusion.

The Jackson comparison is a good one, but the stats are not the deciding factor. If CJ plays 3 more seasons, he should be at 10000 yards. Jackson took 9 seasons to get there with alot of average years. Obviously I am projecting CJ forward, and there's no way to tell for sure.
Fair enough. It will definitely be interesting to see how it plays out. I follow a lot of player stats and how they climb the leader boards, so I will be keeping up with it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
If Hines Ward ever gets in that will be ridiculous. He was a tough WR who made plays and could block his ass off, but he is not an all time great in any sense. He is a all time great Steeler, but he isn't even close to HoF worthy.
words almost right out of my mouth
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Originally Posted by WCH View Post
Do you know what I have in common with Hines Ward, Isaac Bruce, Reggie Wayne, and Donald Driver?

We're all 6'0" tall and none of us are getting into the HOF.
lol classic

ward has no business ever sniffing the hall with some of the WRs that played in his generation
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Whoops, forget somebody there?

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Originally Posted by mightytitan9 View Post
Offensive Skill:
QB Peyton Manning
QB Tom Brady
QB Drew Brees
QB Ben Roethlisberger
QB Eli Manning
QB Andrew Luch
QB Cam Newton
QB RG3
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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Whoops, forget somebody there?


Haha yup. my bad
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Whoops, forget somebody there?


Silly J-Mike Brett Favre isn't playing anymore.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:32 AM    (permalink
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My best guess, (aside from Urlacher, Lewis, and Possinly Birk and Barber) are Brady, Manning Bros, Champ, Wayne(he deserves it), Charles Woodson, Randy Moss, Julius Peppers, Tony G, Jared Allen, Witten, Freeney, Fitz, Polamalu, Ben, Ed Reed, Brees, if a kicker ever makes it again Vinitieri would be a guy that has a good resume, Ware, Tebow (lol jk), AD (if he keeps it up), Arod (IHKIU), Revis (IHKIU), Calvin (IHKIU)--there are a lot of 'if he keeps it up's'. Joe Thomas (IHKIU), trying not to go too young here but there's so much good young talent that if they keep up they could see the hall some day tons of QB's, JJ Watt, Willis, Clady, Miller, Chris Johnson, Arian Foster, too many to name that have the potential, but it's ultimately going to come down to health, impact and rings.

What is everyones thought on London Fletcher? I loved this guy since I started watching him with the Rams and always thought he was overlooked because of Lewis and Urlacher, but bottom line if he had been a first round pick and played in a bigger market I think he would have gotten just as much praise. People talk about him dropping off last year but the guy was in a boot during the week and grinded it out on game day and has an impressive iron man type streak going.

Justin Smith is another guy who I felt was over looked for quite a while and has just started to get the praise he deserves.


Wes Welker is another guy who you just wouldn't think about as a HOFer but IMO he's the greatest to ever play the slot, Steve Smith has been called the best pound for pound reciever in the NFL numerous times as well, what does heneed to get in?


Casey Hampton is a guy who was the cog to a lot of good D's and was considered the best NT in the game for a while, Wilfork is another guy, along with Kevin Williams who have all been great interior linemen--maybe even Seymour?

IHKIU
What about Devin Hester for his return ability?

Does Antonio Gates have the longevity?

Brian Westbrook was awesome in my book and a bigger reason for Philly's success than McNabb, doubt he gets in though.

Romo has choked a ton but broken tons of HOFer records (again think he needs a SB win to even sniff it but still amazing for a UDFA).

Is Brian Waters still playing? Regardless I think he gets in, same with Hutch.

Logan Mankins has a case..

Adrian Wilson might have enough, (gawd I miss Sean Taylor, despite how good Wilson was Taylor would have been twice as good and probably the GOAT).

This is a very interesting thread cause you want to jump to conclusions with guys like Watt, Miller, Aldon Smith, RG3, Luck, Kaep, Wilson, Stafford, Julio, Green, Weddle, Gronk, Graham, Revis, Rice, Foster, Ryan, hevk even Colston has put up prime numbers and has a ring. If he keeps going he'll have the credentials.

So much talent in the NFL today that it's crazy. I love it but it has ruined all other sports for me aside from midget mma on the ocho.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Mentioning safeties there, it is ridiculously hard to get in as a safety. Steve Atwater, arguably the best safety in the '90's, multiple Pro Bowls/All-Pro's, on 2 Championship teams, and hasn't sniffed the HOF.

Again, you can't look at what current players are doing and yes, some are "breaking HOFer records", but how do they compare to THIS generation of players?
Romo is currently probably around the 8th best QB playing right now. He's not a HOFer.
I also don't see why Wayne deserves it more than some other guys.

And Ward is all but going to be inducted, which I dont agree with, but yeah the NFL HOF holds too much value to having picked up Super Bowl trophies IMO. Although maybe not with Bettis not getting inducted yet.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Mentioning safeties there, it is ridiculously hard to get in as a safety. Steve Atwater, arguably the best safety in the '90's, multiple Pro Bowls/All-Pro's, on 2 Championship teams, and hasn't sniffed the HOF.

Again, you can't look at what current players are doing and yes, some are "breaking HOFer records", but how do they compare to THIS generation of players?
Romo is currently probably around the 8th best QB playing right now. He's not a HOFer.
I also don't see why Wayne deserves it more than some other guys.

And Ward is all but going to be inducted, which I dont agree with, but yeah the NFL HOF holds too much value to having picked up Super Bowl trophies IMO. Although maybe not with Bettis not getting inducted yet.
All very true. But is it really Romo's fault that he just so happened to play with so many great QB's? His stats are better than Ben or Eli's so is it his fault that he didn't play with a top D a couple years and win a SB. It's almost like he ranks up in the top 5-6 statistically every year. And I really don't like Romo, I could care less if he ever gets thought of after he retires but I think it's more about figuring out what dynamics get one into the Hall. Is it stats, championships, both, being considered one of the best of your era? IDK, it's hard to pin point what exactly makes a QB HOF worthy, or any other player for that matter. And when you break HOFer records of guys from your team it has to be asked, was he a better QB than X, and if so would that garner consideration. Would those Boys teams of the 90's have won SB's with Romo at the helm? Would Aikman be considered a HOFer in a different situation? If Romo played with a HOF TE, RB, WR, OLmen and had that D would he have some rings?


It's just interesting perspective and discussion not that I overly care but it's the offseason so it's a solid thing to talk about and expand on.

Atwater, man I thought he'd be a lock. I loved watching him knock people out.
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Old 06-29-2013, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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All very true. But is it really Romo's fault that he just so happened to play with so many great QB's? His stats are better than Ben or Eli's so is it his fault that he didn't play with a top D a couple years and win a SB. It's almost like he ranks up in the top 5-6 statistically every year. And I really don't like Romo, I could care less if he ever gets thought of after he retires but I think it's more about figuring out what dynamics get one into the Hall. Is it stats, championships, both, being considered one of the best of your era? IDK, it's hard to pin point what exactly makes a QB HOF worthy, or any other player for that matter. And when you break HOFer records of guys from your team it has to be asked, was he a better QB than X, and if so would that garner consideration. Would those Boys teams of the 90's have won SB's with Romo at the helm? Would Aikman be considered a HOFer in a different situation? If Romo played with a HOF TE, RB, WR, OLmen and had that D would he have some rings?


It's just interesting perspective and discussion not that I overly care but it's the offseason so it's a solid thing to talk about and expand on.

Atwater, man I thought he'd be a lock. I loved watching him knock people out.
Roethlisberger has been better than Romo. As for Eli, I really hope he doesn't get in, but most likely he will. He's just committed a ton of turnovers, way too many for my liking, but has helped lead his team to 2 championships. His career QB rating is a joke in today's NFL standards as well.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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Roethlisberger has been better than Romo. As for Eli, I really hope he doesn't get in, but most likely he will. He's just committed a ton of turnovers, way too many for my liking, but has helped lead his team to 2 championships. His career QB rating is a joke in today's NFL standards as well.
IDK about that. Ben has been starting two more years than Romo and is only ~4k yards and ~20 TD's ahead of him and that's including a injury year for Romo (I know Ben has had his too). Added to that Romo is only .1 behind Peypey in career passer rating I believe ranking him 5th by a slim margin.

So let's ask the tough question. IF a big IF Romo Aladeans his way into a super bowl win, does he Aladean into the HOF or Aladean? (I hope you get 'The Dictator' humor).

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Old 06-29-2013, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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Romo is only .1 behind Peypey in career passer rating.

So let's ask the tough question. IF a big IF Romo Aladeans his way into a super bowl win, does he Aladean into the HOF or Aladean?
This is a situation where the numbers just flat out lie. Romo isn't even close to Manning. It says more about how passer rating is broken as a reference point.

Even if Romo wins a SB, he still hasn't had a HoF career. He has never been a top QB. Most of his big moments are negative. Romo would have to win at least 2 SBs to get HoF consideration.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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Silly J-Mike Brett Favre isn't playing anymore.
That's cute. Clever. HahaFunny.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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This is a situation where the numbers just flat out lie. Romo isn't even close to Manning. It says more about how passer rating is broken as a reference point.

Even if Romo wins a SB, he still hasn't had a HoF career. He has never been a top QB. Most of his big moments are negative. Romo would have to win at least 2 SBs to get HoF consideration.
I think a lot of things would have to change starting right now in order for Romo to get in. For starters, he would absolutely need a SB ring, probably two. He would also need to win at least 8-10 postseason games, which would pretty much come along with the SBs. Additionally, he would need to finish really high in the stats columns, something like 50k yards and 300+ TDs. He would essentially have to turn his jinx around to the point where fans at least had to say, "I remember back in the day when Romo choked in every big game."
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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Wes Welker is another guy who you just wouldn't think about as a HOFer but IMO he's the greatest to ever play the slot,
What does that mean, "to play the slot?" Every receiver to ever play a significant number of snaps has lined up in the slot before. Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Jerry Rice. There's no position, "slot receiver," unless you have a certain formation.

Besides which, it's not even true relative to a "niche position." Ricky Sanders > Wes Welker. Randall Cobb > Wes Welker. Curtis Duncan > Wes Welker. There are more.

If you put Wes Welker in, you might as well put Ricky Proehl in.

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Old 06-30-2013, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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If you put Wes Welker in, you might as well put Ricky Proehl in.
If you post, you might as well throw something in really stupid at the end.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
What does that mean, "to play the slot?" Every receiver to ever play a significant number of snaps has lined up in the slot before. Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Jerry Rice. There's no position, "slot receiver," unless you have a certain formation.

Besides which, it's not even true relative to a "niche position." Ricky Sanders > Wes Welker. Randall Cobb > Wes Welker. Curtis Duncan > Wes Welker. There are more.

If you put Wes Welker in, you might as well put Ricky Proehl in.
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If you post, you might as well throw something in really stupid at the end.
Hey man, when you're up against the wall, might as well go for broke.
The only real knock I have against Welker are his lack of TD's. If you just look at his Patriot years, he only averaged 6 TD's a year.

Now, I do also think that as of right now, Welker is not a HOFer.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Wes Welker is another guy who you just wouldn't think about as a HOFer but IMO he's the greatest to ever play the slot, Steve Smith has been called the best pound for pound reciever in the NFL numerous times as well, what does heneed to get in?
To be about twice as good as he actually is. In the passing dominant league, his numbers are not impressive. If Tim Brown isn't in the HOF yet, Welker should not even be in the conversation.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Don't let this thread get taken over by Taber... Go back to arguing about Chris Johnson.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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If Tim Brown isn't in the HOF yet, Welker should not even be in the conversation.
STATEMENT OF THE WEEK
Clear, concise, accurate.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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If you post, you might as well throw something in really stupid at the end.
How is that stupid? Ricky Proehl was the same caliber receiver as Wes Welker.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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How is that stupid? Ricky Proehl was the same caliber receiver as Wes Welker.
Except for the fact that Welker has 100 more receptions in 9 seasons than Proehl had in 16 seasons.

Welker's season averages:
85 receptions, 953 yards, 4.3 TDs

Proehl's season averages:
41 receptions, 555 yards, 3.2 TDs
Proehl's BEST season
65 receptions, 877 yards, 7 TDs

Basically the same player, right?
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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These are the guys that I feel are the surest bets for the HOF right now, just based on what they've done so far and their accomplishments so far I think they could be in the HOF.
QB: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger
RB: Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson
TE: Tony Gonzalez
WR: Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Wes Welker
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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If Chris Johnson makes the Hall of Fame, they need to shut that thing down. I also don't think Welker is a Hall of Fame type guy but his inclusion wouldn't be nearly as terrible as Johnson.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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