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Old 07-08-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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5 years puts him to 31-32 years old. That's a good deal for us. Let's see if Nicks can actually stay healthy. I am skeptical he signs with us. If I had to guess as of right now, I'd say Gettlemen comes in and signs Nicks. He pitches to him, a big contract, Cam Newton, playing opposite Smith and last but probably the most important, playing in front of his home state crowd. Coming back home to NC.

I see that playing out.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Good call NYG. I can definitely see it play out like that.

I'm a huge Randle fan so I'm ok with it. Ideally I want us to have all 3 but if we lose Nicks in a year or 2 I think Randle can transition into his role just fine.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Good call NYG. I can definitely see it play out like that.

I'm a huge Randle fan so I'm ok with it. Ideally I want us to have all 3 but if we lose Nicks in a year or 2 I think Randle can transition into his role just fine.
It's my initial guess. Just makes too much sense for him to leave. Plus his interview when he was on a NC radio station was one red flag that rubbed me the wrong way, and now when asked by us, he was noncommital. That rubbed me the wrong way as well.

Usually people say, yeah retiring a giant is something special. And say stuff like that, and some may comment on the business said of things, but his answer was odd. I never heard a player be noncommital about a question regarding the future.

So, like I said, my first guess is to say Nicks leaves and plays at home. He is from NC, went to HS, and College there, and I can see him playing his NFL career or the rest of it there.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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I would have to see how R.R. plays this year. I am not sure he would be a good X but I need to see more. I think he would be a perfect Z to compliment an X. I think of that player like a T.J. Houshmanzadah. I really liked him as a Z WR. That guy was perfect compliment to Chad Johnson.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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From my study of his college stuff, I really thought Randle could be a X. He's not as quick as Nicks but he's a long strider and he can stretch the field like him. He's taller too. Reminds me a little of Nicks, not as good in the intermediate and short but better going deep.

Actually he reminds me of Vincent Jackson a little.

Either way, I had Randle rated high. I had a mancrush on Stephen Hill but I also liked Randle quite a bit. He had no business falling to the 2nd round.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I like Randle a lot too. I think he's going to be the X-factor to our offense. Depending how well he does, I think we could be a good offense if he doesn't step up, or an amazing offense if he does. Same goes with Wilson a bit too.
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Old 07-08-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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From my study of his college stuff, I really thought Randle could be a X. He's not as quick as Nicks but he's a long strider and he can stretch the field like him. He's taller too. Reminds me a little of Nicks, not as good in the intermediate and short but better going deep.

Actually he reminds me of Vincent Jackson a little.

Either way, I had Randle rated high. I had a mancrush on Stephen Hill but I also liked Randle quite a bit. He had no business falling to the 2nd round.
The thing that makes Nicks so good is his route running AND his hands. The guy's got baseball mits for hands and can make catches where the ball hits 1 or 2 of his hands and sticks like velcro. That's what makes him so good. Factor that with choice and option routes and back shoulder fades, and that's his competitive advantage.

Can RR do this? That's what I need to see. You need something at X that makes you a big time threat. Nicks has the qualities or attributes listed above. Burress had hands and his height which made him a big time mismatch. None were burners but both players, at X, had qualities that made each successful.

What can R.R. do? Stretch the field? Ok.. He needs another stuff to be successful. That I need to see and how he can develop.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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I am not too worried about Nicks.

The front office will work on a new deal. If that can't be sorted we will likely franchise him so bsrring s Harvin style trade he will almost certainly be here next season.

There are a couple of factors that impact here. Eli gets the most out if hus receivers, new york offers the best options for off field income and Nicks has to prove he can stay healthy.


In fact while our offence is much better with Nicks there is pressure on him. If he should miss time we have Randle and Murphy ready to step in. I can see them both improving substantially this year.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Randle can do more than just go deep. He can body up as well, he's tall and thick, he knows how to use his body as a shield. His movement skills aren't as good as Nicks but bc he's bigger than Nicks he's able to use that to his advantage. Nicks can body up too, in fact Nicks bodies up better than Randle, but it's not like Randle can't do it.

Randle basically is a thinner, slightly shorter (but not short) Vincent Jackson. That's his game. Which is still pretty good and good enough to become an X in the future.

Randle is also very good at YAC. Again, not as good as Nicks, and doesn't have the same hip flexibility, but he produces here as well. They don't have identical games, but I feel he can potentially match Nicks production (or come close to it) bc he has his own skillset that translates very well at this level as well.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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This should be a big year for Randle. He got a lot of the reps durring OTAs/minicamp with Nicks and Cruz not there and he will get playing time as the #3 WR. He showed plenty of flashes last year using his body and size to go up and get the ball. If he has as a good a year as I expect him to and Nicks asks for too much Reese will have no problem letting Nicks walk. This is why it was so crucial to re-sign Cruz. He can play inside and out, but Nicks is purely an outside guy.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I am really liking Louis Murphy and Brandon Myers as well.

If Robinson contnues to develop as a #2 TE we have a ton of weapons.

Our Oline should be improved and Eli has more legit weapons than ever.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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I've been saying all offseason I expect our offense to potentially become a top 3 offense in the league this year.

Our defense is doo doo brown though. Our defense is going to be god awful.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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We should have a top 5 offense this year. The OL is really the only thing that can mess that up. QB/skill positions we're one of the more talented NFL teams.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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I've been saying all offseason I expect our offense to potentially become a top 3 offense in the league this year.

Our defense is doo doo brown though. Our defense is going to be god awful.
I think it's going to surprise and be top 20 which would be more than fine if our offense clicks the way we all expect it to.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I think it's going to surprise and be top 20 which would be more than fine if our offense clicks the way we all expect it to.
Top 20 is not Giants football though. Maybe its the defense nut in me talking, but that's unacceptable to me.

I think we have a lot of young pieces that need to prove their worth. There's potential for us to be decent on defense, but we're relying on a lot of unproven guys to fill the void. It's asking a lot to expect all of them to pan out.

And our linebackers are just god awful. Like this might be our worst LB core in awhile. At least from an expectations standpoint.

I think we'll be better than I'm imagining right now but I also am cautious to project young talent too judiciously.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Top 20 is not Giants football though. Maybe its the defense nut in me talking, but that's unacceptable to me.

I think we have a lot of young pieces that need to prove their worth. There's potential for us to be decent on defense, but we're relying on a lot of unproven guys to fill the void. It's asking a lot to expect all of them to pan out.

And our linebackers are just god awful. Like this might be our worst LB core in awhile. At least from an expectations standpoint.

I think we'll be better than I'm imagining right now but I also am cautious to project young talent too judiciously.
I don't like it either but it's the state of the D right now. I am a defense first person so it's going to be weird to see us as a high octane offense that puts up lots of points. As you said that's not Giants football but whatever gets the W's is all I really care about. I think some of the vets have 1 more year in them including Webster and Tuck.
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Old 07-09-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Randle can do more than just go deep. He can body up as well, he's tall and thick, he knows how to use his body as a shield. His movement skills aren't as good as Nicks but bc he's bigger than Nicks he's able to use that to his advantage. Nicks can body up too, in fact Nicks bodies up better than Randle, but it's not like Randle can't do it.

Randle basically is a thinner, slightly shorter (but not short) Vincent Jackson. That's his game. Which is still pretty good and good enough to become an X in the future.

Randle is also very good at YAC. Again, not as good as Nicks, and doesn't have the same hip flexibility, but he produces here as well. They don't have identical games, but I feel he can potentially match Nicks production (or come close to it) bc he has his own skillset that translates very well at this level as well.


That's the physical nature of playing X. Well and good, but in our system it's different. That's where it's hard to compare VJ to R.R. or Nicks. Sure body wise you can talk about X. However, the roles are different due to system.

Our system you need to be smart. Why? You need to be able to run the choice and option routes. You need to be able to read pre snap and post snap reads. That's where the back shoulder fade comes into play and is deadly. What happens if you can't get the mental side of this offense on the outside? Watch Barden at X. Eli throws the back shoulder fade and Barden keeps running his go route. Remember both guys playing X or outside, but body wise and hands don't mean squat if you're too dumb to run the right adjustment.

Just watch Barden and even Chad Johnson in the Pats complex system. The guy was utterly pathetic in processing that much information. His tenure was one big non factor.

So sure physical stuff for RR will be in question, but his mental stuff is what will make him successful or not. Even if his physical abilities check out, can be mentally grasp all this information?

You can be 6'9 run a 4.0 flat and have big hands, but if you don't know what you're doing in this system it's a waste. Barden was a waste. R.R. needs to work with Eli, practice with him on his days off, and just learn about the details of this system. Eli won't throw to a guy who will hang him out to dry.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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I really like the talent depth and competition on both sides of the ball.

Looking at the defence

DE Tuck had a down year and was banged up, while he may not be dominant he can still be solid. Kiwi will be more than solid at the othe DE. Then we bring back JPP once he is healthy. Tracy and Moore for depth and this unit is shaping up nicely.

DT we have Jenkins and Joseph as incumbent starters. The Hankins kid looks like he can contribute in rotation early. Austin seems motivated but will have to beat out Rogers and Patterson for a spot. Kuhn is likely to start on PUP.

LB looks intriguing. At SLB it looks like we have Rivers and Curry. Two former early picks who haven't translated that in the NFL, both have injury issues but seem healthy and motivated; between the two I think we are ok here. At MLB we have Herzlich as the likely starter and Connor behind him; the fact that Herzlich was able to beat out Connor in the OTAs shows me he has improved. Then at WLB we have Paysigner and Williams. I am expecting Paysinger to have a breakout year. He did well late last year, is mature and can run. Williams needs to keep healthy but he has already flashed. Bosworth seems like depth and special teams, but has starting experience.

CB Webster had a down year but had a broken hand which is a real issue for a press corner. I think Webster can at leasy be a good #2. Amukamara may not be a shut down corner,but he is emerging as a good #1. Ross is a good value #3, then there is Thomas who seems healthy and is running already, I would expect him to be moved to Safety spot (playing that third safety spot). Then we have Hosely, a genuine ball hawk and this Drake kid looks decent too.

S we have Rolle, Hill looked very solid at times and Brown did well filling in for Phillips. I think between Brown and Hill we should get solid play at the other safety spot. Thomas could be moved to safety, in particular playing that third safety spot. Behind them we have Taylor with great physical tools, Sash and the solid vet Mundy.


What I think will be the key for us is the play from our DTs and we have every reason to expect that to be a team strength this year. These guys will help keep blockers off our LBs. This is very much what Fewell had in Buffalo.
Our LBs group is under rated, but has plenty of depth speed and ability. With the profileration of pistol and read option offences, we need that speed and athleticism. They could really surprise.

The biggest factor is the depth, we have enough talent to cope if players miss time due to various factors. We have in most cases experienced vets with starting experience among the depth rather than unproven youngsters or marginal players.

I am not saying we will have a top tier defence, but I think we should expect a mid range defence and it has the ability to surprise.

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Old 07-09-2013, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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Here is my projected roster at this time (still based on Tuck playing RDE and JPP LDE which was mentioned earlier this offseason - we wont have a better idea until camp)

LDE - Pierre-Paul, Kiwanuka

RDE - Tuck, Tracy, Moore

UT - Jenkins, Austin/Rogers/Patterson

NT - Joseph, Hankins

SLB - Rivers, Curry

MLB - Herzlich, Connor

WLB - Paysinger, Williams

CB1 - Amukamara, Ross

CB2 - Webster, Hosley, Drake

SS - Rolle, Hill, Taylor

FS - Brown, Thomas

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Old 07-09-2013, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Obviously the most important thing we need to do is to win the division.

Here is an interesting exercise, rate all the positional groups within the division as see how you rate them.

Here is my positional rankings for the NFC East

QB: Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles

RB: Eagles, Redskins, Giants, Cowboys

WR: Giants, Cowboys, Eagles, Redskins

TE: Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Redskins

OL: Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Cowboys

DL: Giants, Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles

LB: Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles, Giants

DB: Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, Redskins

ST: Giants, Eagles, Redskins, Cowboys


what is your positional rankings?
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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That's the physical nature of playing X. Well and good, but in our system it's different. That's where it's hard to compare VJ to R.R. or Nicks. Sure body wise you can talk about X. However, the roles are different due to system.

Our system you need to be smart. Why? You need to be able to run the choice and option routes. You need to be able to read pre snap and post snap reads. That's where the back shoulder fade comes into play and is deadly. What happens if you can't get the mental side of this offense on the outside? Watch Barden at X. Eli throws the back shoulder fade and Barden keeps running his go route. Remember both guys playing X or outside, but body wise and hands don't mean squat if you're too dumb to run the right adjustment.

Just watch Barden and even Chad Johnson in the Pats complex system. The guy was utterly pathetic in processing that much information. His tenure was one big non factor.

So sure physical stuff for RR will be in question, but his mental stuff is what will make him successful or not. Even if his physical abilities check out, can be mentally grasp all this information?

You can be 6'9 run a 4.0 flat and have big hands, but if you don't know what you're doing in this system it's a waste. Barden was a waste. R.R. needs to work with Eli, practice with him on his days off, and just learn about the details of this system. Eli won't throw to a guy who will hang him out to dry.
We all know about the option routes on our offense, you don't have to tell us about that anymore.

My question is, is there a difference btw the 2 outside WRs in our offense? Does the X have different responsibilities and WR rules than the Z?

I was always under the assumption that the X and Z had the same WR rules and choice route options.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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I really like the talent depth and competition on both sides of the ball.

Looking at the defence

DE Tuck had a down year and was banged up, while he may not be dominant he can still be solid. Kiwi will be more than solid at the othe DE. Then we bring back JPP once he is healthy. Tracy and Moore for depth and this unit is shaping up nicely.

DT we have Jenkins and Joseph as incumbent starters. The Hankins kid looks like he can contribute in rotation early. Austin seems motivated but will have to beat out Rogers and Patterson for a spot. Kuhn is likely to start on PUP.

LB looks intriguing. At SLB it looks like we have Rivers and Curry. Two former early picks who haven't translated that in the NFL, both have injury issues but seem healthy and motivated; between the two I think we are ok here. At MLB we have Herzlich as the likely starter and Connor behind him; the fact that Herzlich was able to beat out Connor in the OTAs shows me he has improved. Then at WLB we have Paysigner and Williams. I am expecting Paysinger to have a breakout year. He did well late last year, is mature and can run. Williams needs to keep healthy but he has already flashed. Bosworth seems like depth and special teams, but has starting experience.

CB Webster had a down year but had a broken hand which is a real issue for a press corner. I think Webster can at leasy be a good #2. Amukamara may not be a shut down corner,but he is emerging as a good #1. Ross is a good value #3, then there is Thomas who seems healthy and is running already, I would expect him to be moved to Safety spot (playing that third safety spot). Then we have Hosely, a genuine ball hawk and this Drake kid looks decent too.

S we have Rolle, Hill looked very solid at times and Brown did well filling in for Phillips. I think between Brown and Hill we should get solid play at the other safety spot. Thomas could be moved to safety, in particular playing that third safety spot. Behind them we have Taylor with great physical tools, Sash and the solid vet Mundy.


What I think will be the key for us is the play from our DTs and we have every reason to expect that to be a team strength this year. These guys will help keep blockers off our LBs. This is very much what Fewell had in Buffalo.
Our LBs group is under rated, but has plenty of depth speed and ability. With the profileration of pistol and read option offences, we need that speed and athleticism. They could really surprise.

The biggest factor is the depth, we have enough talent to cope if players miss time due to various factors. We have in most cases experienced vets with starting experience among the depth rather than unproven youngsters or marginal players.

I am not saying we will have a top tier defence, but I think we should expect a mid range defence and it has the ability to surprise.
That's the thing, we just have so many questionable parts on the defense, it's hard to predict anything positive bc we have no evidence.

Realistically when you have this many questionable pieces to the puzzle, rule of thumb is to expect 20% of them to pan out the way you hope. That's realistic. And if only 20% show us what we want to see, then we have a pretty terrible defense.

And Kiwi...I think at this point we can say Kiwi is a JAG. I like the guy, he's good vs the run, he's versatile, he's a 8 sack a season guy when playing full time DE, but that's his ceiling. He's a solid but not spectacular guy.

He's not an Osi, or a healthy Tuck, or a JPP. He's just a solid player.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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We all know about the option routes on our offense, you don't have to tell us about that anymore.

My question is, is there a difference btw the 2 outside WRs in our offense? Does the X have different responsibilities and WR rules than the Z?

I was always under the assumption that the X and Z had the same WR rules and choice route options.
Well if people don't mind it when it comes to talking about OUR Wrs then its my job to remind everyone. So you can skip that part whenever I do mention it again.

Yes, But I am guessing it comes to what concept it being run. If X is pushing deep then Z is probably not. He will run a medium level route like a dig , come back or square in. But it depends on the concept. Z can also take the top off the coverage and X can run a medium route.

I think you may be right for other systems but in ours I think its concept specific. So yes sure let's say we are both outside WRs. We may have 6 options to run but due to what the play or concept is trying to achieve I may, at Z have 2 at my disposal, while for the same play you have all 6. So in theory we both have 6 but for that play or concept we may be limited.

Some systems it may be the same but the difference is talent and body build. Like Andre Johnson and whoever else at Z. Or Megatron and whoever else at Z. They have the same stuff but the difference is the talent and physical build.

I hope that answers your question. I am in my phone so can't write more.

I hope your 4 the
of July holiday was good.

I think again.. it comes down to, let's see if I can do this. It will come down to you know what and what you already know. That's the big thing with this scheme. Things all change depending on post snap read. So it sticks to what concept is being run and what available options or choices they are allowed in that specific play.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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We all know about the option routes on our offense, you don't have to tell us about that anymore.

My question is, is there a difference btw the 2 outside WRs in our offense? Does the X have different responsibilities and WR rules than the Z?

I was always under the assumption that the X and Z had the same WR rules and choice route options.
I don't know enough about the specific routes, but my understanding is that there are a lot of similarities with the routes and responsibilities just different routes and reads based on the specific play called
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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That's the thing, we just have so many questionable parts on the defense, it's hard to predict anything positive bc we have no evidence.

Realistically when you have this many questionable pieces to the puzzle, rule of thumb is to expect 20% of them to pan out the way you hope. That's realistic. And if only 20% show us what we want to see, then we have a pretty terrible defense.

And Kiwi...I think at this point we can say Kiwi is a JAG. I like the guy, he's good vs the run, he's versatile, he's a 8 sack a season guy when playing full time DE, but that's his ceiling. He's a solid but not spectacular guy.

He's not an Osi, or a healthy Tuck, or a JPP. He's just a solid player.
I don't see the need for pessimism quite frankly.

We had a number of key players banged up last year including Tuck, JPP, Canty, Webster, Thomas, Phillips, Boley, Rivers and Williams. Add to that our DT depth was terrible.

This year it looks like we are alot healthier, plus we have more veteran depth competing for playing time.

All of our players are hungry and have ability. There is so much opportunity and everyone has a legit shot to get on the field and contribute. Whoever gets on the field will have earned his shot.

We may not have many superstars, but he do have a lot of solid players with upside.

The flip side of so much opportunity is that we will have very good depth, for most positions, the drop off between the starters will not be too much. This also gives the coaching staff the option of using players as I like.

This defence is a typical Giants unit where the unit performs better than the sum of the individual parts.

I don't buy the crap that we are an aweful defense because we have no stars. The Reese and co know what they are doing. Just look at how well we have done with positions like the Oline and TE without a lot of names or big name signings. How did we feel when we replaced Pettigout at LT with Diehl?
Just calm down it will be all in hand.

Our priority is to stop the run, well we loaded up there at DT, plus we have a good stable of run defenders at DE. We have a ton of pass rushers, lets see who steps up. At LB we have a few athletic guys who can run and guys better suited inside. At DB we have a lot of physical press guys and some genuine ballhawks. Across the board we have a nice mix of youth and experience.

More than anything our defense will be relying on coaching. Our position coaches are good at developing talent. We have a good deep pool of defensive players, many of whom have contributed in the NFL. It is up to Fewell's coaching team to get it done.
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