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Old 07-08-2013, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Byrd likely to hold out as a long term deal is not looking likely anytime soon. We draft the guy in the 2nd rnd and he turns out to be a steal, he makes the pro bowl as a rookie, and has turned into arguably the top safety in football, but we are going to do this ****? Can't we just do the right ******* thing for once?!?!

I'm going to snap...

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Old 07-09-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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Nicks is a beast. If he can stay healthy he's amazing. Just for us, it doesn't make sense to extend him if Randle plays well this year, bc there's no point in paying so much money at WR when you have Eli at qb.

Eli can always develop a WR.
comeeee onnnnnn get this **** outta here.

They run a complicated offense, and he showed tremendous chemistry with cruz but eli can always develop a WR?

Did eli develop Burress and Toomer? no

Did manningham, moss, hixon, and tyree "develop" under eli? It took barden like 4 years to "develop" and he had one game. These guys come and go, never really get developed imo

I believe in the system, but i do not think eli can just develop WRs, they struck gold on nicks and from day one cruz and eli clicked but i just think that is a little too bold of a statement

EDIT: Forgot about steve smith, ill give him steve smith. I loved that guy
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.

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Old 07-09-2013, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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comeeee onnnnnn get this **** outta here.

They run a complicated offense, and he showed tremendous chemistry with cruz but eli can always develop a WR?

Did eli develop Burress and Toomer? no

Did manningham, moss, hixon, and tyree "develop" under eli? It took barden like 4 years to "develop" and he had one game.

I believe in the system, but i do not think eli can just develop WRs, they struck gold on nicks and from day one cruz and eli clicked but i just think that is a little too bold of a statement
How did Eli not develop WRs? Look at the TEs who came and left, it's been a revolving door there yet they all produce with Eli and then leave and go back into the abyss.

Steve Smith, he made Derek Hagan look credible for a little while, Dominique Hixon, Mario was better with Eli than without him, Barden couldn't even find a job outside the Giants when he tried leaving.

Boss, Ballard, Bennett. Heck, Bennett had Romo and couldn't do a damn thing, comes to the Giants and Eli makes him look very good.

Perhaps saying he can develop a WR is the wrong way to put it, bc they leave and they don't look good anymore. But he can make certain players look better than they really are. Most good qbs do. That's why I don't buy the "he needs weapons" excuse for the most part when evaluating qbs. A good qb will make the weapons around him look better than they are.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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I didnt say anything about TEs, i didnt say he didnt use TEs well.

Eli also hung all those TEs out to dry way too often (except bennett to my knowledge, but i remember boss and ballard constantly bailing Eli out and paying the price because of it)
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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He is guilty of that. He'll leave his TEs out to dry. But he also made them a lot of money so they can thank him for that.

Look at all the WRs who left the Giants. None of them did better after they left. Some bc of age, but not all of them.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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How did Eli not develop WRs? Look at the TEs who came and left, it's been a revolving door there yet they all produce with Eli and then leave and go back into the abyss.

Steve Smith, he made Derek Hagan look credible for a little while, Dominique Hixon, Mario was better with Eli than without him, Barden couldn't even find a job outside the Giants when he tried leaving.

Boss, Ballard, Bennett. Heck, Bennett had Romo and couldn't do a damn thing, comes to the Giants and Eli makes him look very good.

Perhaps saying he can develop a WR is the wrong way to put it, bc they leave and they don't look good anymore. But he can make certain players look better than they really are. Most good qbs do. That's why I don't buy the "he needs weapons" excuse for the most part when evaluating qbs. A good qb will make the weapons around him look better than they are.

I'm pretty sure you know you could have left Marty B out the window right? Unless you think it's fair to compare a young TE when he is developing and playing behind Jason Witten and the 5th option in the offense, vs a guy in his prime playing for a big contract as a starter and the 3rd option in the offense. I mean come on now. That doesn't even make any sense. Marty B is gonna produce for the Bears more then he did in NY.


I also don't think it's fair to say that about Mario. He was just as good in SF, but he was in a conservative offense that was built around the run and he was much further down the totem pole, once Kaep took over he got hurt. Some of those guys I'll give you, but you have to take the situations into consideration. If a guy is on the Giants as the 2nd or 3rd option, of course he's gonna produce. If he leaves and goes to a worse QB, and a worse offense, and he's the 5th option, that doesn't mean he got worse or Eli made him better, he was just a bigger part of the offense there.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure you know you could have left Marty B out the window right? Unless you think it's fair to compare a young TE when he is developing and playing behind Jason Witten and the 5th option in the offense, vs a guy in his prime playing for a big contract as a starter and the 3rd option in the offense. I mean come on now. That doesn't even make any sense. Marty B is gonna produce for the Bears more then he did in NY.


I also don't think it's fair to say that about Mario. He was just as good in SF, but he was in a conservative offense that was built around the run and he was much further down the totem pole, once Kaep took over he got hurt. Some of those guys I'll give you, but you have to take the situations into consideration. If a guy is on the Giants as the 2nd or 3rd option, of course he's gonna produce. If he leaves and goes to a worse QB, and a worse offense, and he's the 5th option, that doesn't mean he got worse or Eli made him better, he was just a bigger part of the offense there.
Even in his final year in Dallas, Bennett looked terrible. If he was hitting his prime he'd show something, anything in Dallas. He didn't. The ball would literally hit his face and get intercepted.

Even Bennett has gone on record saying he credits his development to Eli and Pope. Saying that Eli was much more clear on instruction on where he needed to be on a given play and what his expectations were of him.

I don't mean this as a knock on Romo but it's pretty clear Bennett developed with us.

And the TE is more like the 4th option in this offense. The TE position is more of a blocking position in our offense, it's not built for high yardage.
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Stafford signs a 3 year 53 million dollar extension. 43 mill guaranteed.

Not too shabby. He went with less years more guaranteed money. And if he pans out he'll cash in again in a major way when the cap goes up. Smart move on his part.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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comeeee onnnnnn get this **** outta here.

They run a complicated offense, and he showed tremendous chemistry with cruz but eli can always develop a WR?

Did eli develop Burress and Toomer? no

Did manningham, moss, hixon, and tyree "develop" under eli? It took barden like 4 years to "develop" and he had one game. These guys come and go, never really get developed imo

I believe in the system, but i do not think eli can just develop WRs, they struck gold on nicks and from day one cruz and eli clicked but i just think that is a little too bold of a statement

EDIT: Forgot about steve smith, ill give him steve smith. I loved that guy



Of course he can. Who works with the Wrs in the film room? Who runs these camps with his WRs time and time again? Of course you can go over the details of our choice and option based system. He did this with Toomer and Burress. The difference was Burress did what he wanted to do. We lived with it and if he screwed up we fined the living heck out of him. If he acted up we suspended him. It was Eli who worked with guy. It spoke volumes when Burress came out of jail, that Eli didn't go to back for him.

In fact, people in our fan base, were upset that Eli didn't go to bat for him. Even Smith during an interview prior said Plax does what Plax wants. Well, Eli and Coughlin were guys that got the most of him. Remember, when he first hit the market and we signed him, the biggest debate was if Burress was a # 1 WR!

I remember our fan base, and your fan base saying that Burress was a # 2 Wr who benefited playing opposite of Ward.


Mario, Hixon, and the rest sure did benefit with Eli helping with out. If they screwed up it was Eli who went to them and went over the details of our sight adjustment routes. I don't blame him because if the WRs in this system make mistakes it's Eli that suffers via INTs. Mario was the biggest issue. He made plays when the ball went to him, however you had to live with his mistakes too.

Tyree was developed with Eli back when both were drafted. Eli and Tyree worked together as 2nd teamers while Warner took reps with the first team.

Nicks is a good Wr but Eli and him work tirelessly together. Nicks was present once again with Eli at the camp at Duke, NC. Eli needs to work with Nicks to go over hand signals and post snap coverages so that they can connect on back shoulder fades which is a huge concept ran in our offense. This goes back to Burress as well. He handed that GB Cb his lunch that playoff game. That back shoulder fade is deadly, and you need to constantly work together in the film room and on the practice field to execute that.

Ever see what happens when Barden tried running it? It was a god awful mess. Eli throws back shoulder and Barden keeps running a go. Then Eli looks at Barden like WTF are you doing?

Smith and Eli needed to work together to over choice and option routes in the slot. He actually was the guy who executed this system perfectly. Even better than Cruz. Cruz is a better player and produced better, but in terms of just being where he should be Smith was near perfect.

I am not going to even cover all the TEs which is a big musical chairs. All this is proven and as a giants fan articles and media from videos to interviews support all this.

This is why as long as Eli is here, players can come and go, and I have faith that things will be good in the long run.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Stafford signs a 3 year 53 million dollar extension. 43 mill guaranteed.

Not too shabby. He went with less years more guaranteed money. And if he pans out he'll cash in again in a major way when the cap goes up. Smart move on his part.
Not bad, as a whole contract I think it's supposed to be somewhere in the 5 year 76million. He should be able to get another 1-2 contracts as well, if he can stay healthy since he'll only be 29-30 years old when this contract expires
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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So if we add that $53 million to the $78 million dollar deal he signed already...He'll be pushing $130 million before he's 30. Not too shabby.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Stafford has got to be the richest player by the time he was 25 when it comes to contract dollars, maybe not endorsements but damnnnn

Jay cutler and matt ryan have to be salivating
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Let this be a lesson, play for a team that goes 0-16, they'll pay you boat loads of money, if you play good.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Between those pics and the cannon located on his right side - how could you not love that guy?
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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I still think Josh Freeman is the better QB
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Of course he can. Who works with the Wrs in the film room? Who runs these camps with his WRs time and time again? Of course you can go over the details of our choice and option based system. He did this with Toomer and Burress. The difference was Burress did what he wanted to do. We lived with it and if he screwed up we fined the living heck out of him. If he acted up we suspended him. It was Eli who worked with guy. It spoke volumes when Burress came out of jail, that Eli didn't go to back for him.

In fact, people in our fan base, were upset that Eli didn't go to bat for him. Even Smith during an interview prior said Plax does what Plax wants. Well, Eli and Coughlin were guys that got the most of him. Remember, when he first hit the market and we signed him, the biggest debate was if Burress was a # 1 WR!

I remember our fan base, and your fan base saying that Burress was a # 2 Wr who benefited playing opposite of Ward.


Mario, Hixon, and the rest sure did benefit with Eli helping with out. If they screwed up it was Eli who went to them and went over the details of our sight adjustment routes. I don't blame him because if the WRs in this system make mistakes it's Eli that suffers via INTs. Mario was the biggest issue. He made plays when the ball went to him, however you had to live with his mistakes too.

Tyree was developed with Eli back when both were drafted. Eli and Tyree worked together as 2nd teamers while Warner took reps with the first team.

Nicks is a good Wr but Eli and him work tirelessly together. Nicks was present once again with Eli at the camp at Duke, NC. Eli needs to work with Nicks to go over hand signals and post snap coverages so that they can connect on back shoulder fades which is a huge concept ran in our offense. This goes back to Burress as well. He handed that GB Cb his lunch that playoff game. That back shoulder fade is deadly, and you need to constantly work together in the film room and on the practice field to execute that.

Ever see what happens when Barden tried running it? It was a god awful mess. Eli throws back shoulder and Barden keeps running a go. Then Eli looks at Barden like WTF are you doing?

Smith and Eli needed to work together to over choice and option routes in the slot. He actually was the guy who executed this system perfectly. Even better than Cruz. Cruz is a better player and produced better, but in terms of just being where he should be Smith was near perfect.

I am not going to even cover all the TEs which is a big musical chairs. All this is proven and as a giants fan articles and media from videos to interviews support all this.

This is why as long as Eli is here, players can come and go, and I have faith that things will be good in the long run.
I believe in eli, i believe in the system, and i believe in couglins complex option routes, i just dont think producing in the offense automatically means development.

I think cruz is the exception much more than he is the rule...he was insanely productive as a #3, i didnt think he would be nearly as good as a #2...and i still think it would be insane for a team to pay him to be their #1 but the giants got him at a very reasonable deal, which would make me feel better about signing nicks. I still think cruz is best suited across from nicks, just like i still feel Antonio Brown is best suited across from Wallace (or anyone but sanders)

Honestly most of cruz production 2 years ago was a mess, he was bobbling balls, breaking away when tackles should have been made and several long TDs looked more like an accident than pure skill....but he stepped up as the #2 guy last year and still produced, not all #3s do that even thought everyone wants to assume they will. My original argument had to do with resigning nicks now should be priority #1, solidifying that corps and not just assuming the next guy up is gonna be able to do it in that offense, even if randel shows hes an ok #3, hes definitely talented enough, i just dont think it should be assumed the next man up is gonna replace nicks, and production...which is VERY good, he and mike wallace put together some of the best stats for WRs over their first 3 years since rice and moss

Burress benefiting from ward...LOL.

Ben loved burress, ward hated all WRs the steelers ever drafted...he could have been great here, but he definitely was not just a compliment to ward. Steelers let young #1 WRs go....burress, holmes, wallace...its what they do and it makes me sad
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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hes just the man
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

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Old 07-09-2013, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Stafford has got to be the richest player by the time he was 25 when it comes to contract dollars, maybe not endorsements but damnnnn
I was thinking this too, talk about cashing in. He's gonna be in for another massive payday after this extension as well.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Stafford has got to be the richest player by the time he was 25 when it comes to contract dollars, maybe not endorsements but damnnnn

Jay cutler and matt ryan have to be salivating
Probably why the Lions jumped on signing Stafford now. It seems like every above average QB seems to become the top paid QB in the league. Makes it harder for the bears and Falcons to keep theirs.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Even in his final year in Dallas, Bennett looked terrible. If he was hitting his prime he'd show something, anything in Dallas. He didn't. The ball would literally hit his face and get intercepted.

Even Bennett has gone on record saying he credits his development to Eli and Pope. Saying that Eli was much more clear on instruction on where he needed to be on a given play and what his expectations were of him.

I don't mean this as a knock on Romo but it's pretty clear Bennett developed with us.

And the TE is more like the 4th option in this offense. The TE position is more of a blocking position in our offense, it's not built for high yardage.
It wouldn't matter. It's apples to oranges. He was a back-up TE here. Unless your the Patriots who deploy the 2nd TE and a slot WR, when is the last time you've ever heard of a back-up TE being productive? It wasn't just that he was behind Witten, he was always the 4th to 5th option every single week.


In NY, whatever you want to say about the TE there, he was the starting TE, and behind Nicks & Cruz who else was going to get the most targets? You guessed it, the starting TE Bennett.


Plus, 600 yards and 5 TD's is nothing to write home about. I think he had 300 yards and 4 TD's as a rookie behind Witten, so really adding Bennett in to your point doesn't do much for it that's all I was getting at. You take any backup TE behind a hall of famer, have him hit free agency and go somewhere to be a starter, common sense would say he'll have more stats as a starter then a back-up, it really has nothing to do with somebody developing him better.


He was also an immature 21 year older here, pretty sure as a 25 year older playing for a contract has a big play in all of that.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Bennett looked good in New York with the Giants. It could be a he needs to be TE1 type thing. I hope I'm wrong but I think he'll be just fine in chicago.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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It wouldn't matter. It's apples to oranges. He was a back-up TE here. Unless your the Patriots who deploy the 2nd TE and a slot WR, when is the last time you've ever heard of a back-up TE being productive? It wasn't just that he was behind Witten, he was always the 4th to 5th option every single week.


In NY, whatever you want to say about the TE there, he was the starting TE, and behind Nicks & Cruz who else was going to get the most targets? You guessed it, the starting TE Bennett.


Plus, 600 yards and 5 TD's is nothing to write home about. I think he had 300 yards and 4 TD's as a rookie behind Witten, so really adding Bennett in to your point doesn't do much for it that's all I was getting at. You take any backup TE behind a hall of famer, have him hit free agency and go somewhere to be a starter, common sense would say he'll have more stats as a starter then a back-up, it really has nothing to do with somebody developing him better.


He was also an immature 21 year older here, pretty sure as a 25 year older playing for a contract has a big play in all of that.
funny thing is didnt bennett have like 300 yards and 4 TDs in his first few games as a giant and then fall off quite a bit? i remember he was on a role at the beginning as far as scoring goes at least
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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He fell off bc he basically played with a torn up knee after the Cleveland game. He was never the same after that.

That's why i wanted to sign him back, I thought he'd be a great player on our offense but his asking price was too high.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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It wouldn't matter. It's apples to oranges. He was a back-up TE here. Unless your the Patriots who deploy the 2nd TE and a slot WR, when is the last time you've ever heard of a back-up TE being productive? It wasn't just that he was behind Witten, he was always the 4th to 5th option every single week.


In NY, whatever you want to say about the TE there, he was the starting TE, and behind Nicks & Cruz who else was going to get the most targets? You guessed it, the starting TE Bennett.


Plus, 600 yards and 5 TD's is nothing to write home about. I think he had 300 yards and 4 TD's as a rookie behind Witten, so really adding Bennett in to your point doesn't do much for it that's all I was getting at. You take any backup TE behind a hall of famer, have him hit free agency and go somewhere to be a starter, common sense would say he'll have more stats as a starter then a back-up, it really has nothing to do with somebody developing him better.


He was also an immature 21 year older here, pretty sure as a 25 year older playing for a contract has a big play in all of that.
That's fair. I can see that side of the argument. I'm not sure it was all just a matter of playing time though and responsibilities on offense though. Bc even when he got his opportunities in Dallas he looked terrible for the most part. I vividly remember the ball hitting him in the face and getting intercepted once. That was the low point of his final season in Dallas.
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