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Old 07-30-2013, 06:47 AM    (permalink
BigBlueNorwegian
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Hey guys, finally back from my summer holiday and excited to start following training camp! I love the talk about our offense looking dangerous. As you guys have already discussed, I think it will be one of the best in the league this year! Super excited to see Wilson in a more expanded role, hope he has learned how to pass protect. We will be close to unstoppable if we stay healthy, and as long as our O-line doesn't play like a bottom five O-line.

Defensively I am much more concerned. So I think we need to outscore our opponents most of the time. I struggle to find one position group that I feel confident about on defense.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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A big concern of mine is FS. With the read option, you need a stud FS bc you're going to give a ton of Cover 3 looks.

In fact, the value of a ballhawk FS in the NFL in general has skyrocketed bc of the offensive evolution of the read option and scrambling quarterbacks. If you run a lot of Cover 3 with a mediocre FS, you're dead in the water.

The Earl Thomas' of the world are becoming a priority in defensive schemes moving forward. You need that guy. Unless you bring back the 2 gap 34 front and stuff the run with 7 in the box, which I do expect to come back in some variation bc of the emergence of the run game.

Football is cyclical. I felt last year that the Parcells 2 gap 3-4 was the best way to combat the read option and now this offseason there are articles about how many coaches went to Stanford to learn how to stop the read option, and the answer is the 2 gap 3-4.

We won't run that scheme, but 4-3 personnel will adjust their gap assignments to help make up for it. If you notice, we went with heavy run stuffing DTs this offseason (outside of Jenkins). That's bc Fewell's original scheme had both our DTs 2 gap inside, which means you want big run stuffing DTs. Think of the old Jags defenses with Henderson and Stroud (also the 2000 Ravens with Siragusa and Adams). That will be our version of the adjustment.

We'll play a ton of Cover 3 with the box safety, 2 gap our DTs, and assign the WILL to the E gap (the quarterback).

That's also why I want JWill to win at WILL. I want his speed and blitzing ability to crash into that qb.

Another thing I think you all should read is a great article written by YFS on pattern reading and the Cover 3.

For everyone who says LBs aren't important and DBs are more important for coverage, read that article. You'll see that in zone defenses like ours, LB coverage is actually the most difficult coverage in the scheme and requires excellent linebackers to execute.

Covering the flats is considered the most difficult assignment bc of the amount of field you have to cover plus your change of direction skills.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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Let's see if the R.R. show can continue today against Prince. I am getting excited with the possibility of this offense. If the OL can not get hurt or be bad, we have a good explosive offense here. I want to see more of R.R. and hope he makes plays today.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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I've been saying all offseason, I think we can have a top 3 offense in the league this year if the chips fall in the right places.

Our defense is very questionable, but our offense should be deadly this year. And most importantly, our offense will be balanced. We have a run/pass option out of our sets that will be difficult to defend.

The past 2 years we were a pass heavy team that couldn't run. You can run nickel on us and be fine. Now we should be able to run all over those nickel fronts if they go 6 in the box. Bring 7 and we'll go vertical all day long.

It's gonna be up to Eli to swallow his ego and check into the run when he sees 6 in the box. But also he has to play cat and mouse with the box safety, bc they're going to disguise that Cover 3 look a lot by trying to bring him down at the last second or drop him back in a 2 deep look at the last second, so Eli has to be smart with how he checks.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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I've been saying all offseason, I think we can have a top 3 offense in the league this year if the chips fall in the right places.

Our defense is very questionable, but our offense should be deadly this year. And most importantly, our offense will be balanced. We have a run/pass option out of our sets that will be difficult to defend.

The past 2 years we were a pass heavy team that couldn't run. You can run nickel on us and be fine. Now we should be able to run all over those nickel fronts if they go 6 in the box. Bring 7 and we'll go vertical all day long.

It's gonna be up to Eli to swallow his ego and check into the run when he sees 6 in the box. But also he has to play cat and mouse with the box safety, bc they're going to disguise that Cover 3 look a lot by trying to bring him down at the last second or drop him back in a 2 deep look at the last second, so Eli has to be smart with how he checks.
Not worried about Eli swallowing any pride and being pass heavy at all. He's used to it, and the only stat he cares about is wins. David Wilson against 6 in the box, he'll take that all day long. And, like you say, if they go to 7 or 8 in the box, go vertical on them with Nicks and RR. On third downs, go for Cruz on the option routes in the slot. Also we should in theory be a good screen team with Wilson out of the backfield. I say in theory, because Gilbride almost never uses RB screens it seems like.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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Even in the pass game, Wilson will offer a wrinkle that we haven't had since Tiki. We haven't had a back who can take a 3 yard check down and get 10 yards out of it.

Wilson is going to stretch out those flat defenders and really open up a lot of space for Cruz as well.

Our offense is going to be very good this year. Hopefully Wilson learns how to pass protect so he can be in there more often.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, Prince and R.R. have both been having great camps. Excited to see what they can do this year.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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I've been saying all offseason, I think we can have a top 3 offense in the league this year if the chips fall in the right places.

Our defense is very questionable, but our offense should be deadly this year. And most importantly, our offense will be balanced. We have a run/pass option out of our sets that will be difficult to defend.

The past 2 years we were a pass heavy team that couldn't run. You can run nickel on us and be fine. Now we should be able to run all over those nickel fronts if they go 6 in the box. Bring 7 and we'll go vertical all day long.

It's gonna be up to Eli to swallow his ego and check into the run when he sees 6 in the box. But also he has to play cat and mouse with the box safety, bc they're going to disguise that Cover 3 look a lot by trying to bring him down at the last second or drop him back in a 2 deep look at the last second, so Eli has to be smart with how he checks.

Eli always checks even when I wish he would stick with a pass in the red zone and throw it. However, I want to see the explosiveness of David Wilson. Dink and Dunks would be nice and love to see him take a 3 yard catch and take it 35-40 yards. Stuff like that moves the chains and helps out very much.

I am interested in Myers, Murphy and AR. If they can play well then our offense will be good to go. Again though, I can't remember if I wrote it here or on BBI. But we, as fans, have to caution and guard against the mentality of Eli will save us. Our defense stinks but hey as long as Eli is here he will help us win. Don't worry we are losing, Eli will bring us back and win. And if he can't, damn Eli is slacking. I saw that trend on every Giants MB last season. Poor fans looked heartbroken that their constant couldn't help them.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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I'm very interested in Robinson. If Robinson can develop, we can have a legit 2 TE set up this year as well as our 3 WR set and we can really put defenses in a jam.

Plus that would give us some long term stability at TE for a change.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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I'm very interested in Robinson. If Robinson can develop, we can have a legit 2 TE set up this year as well as our 3 WR set and we can really put defenses in a jam.

Plus that would give us some long term stability at TE for a change.
Yeah that's the biggest annoyance. Constant musical TE. We can't have a TE where we can properly develop if it's a constant 1 year rental. I liked MB a lot. I think a long term deal would have been great for him. He wanted to be here. His wife is from the NYC area and it was a good fit. I think another year in this system would have been great.

Now we have to see what Myers does... for 1 year. Then back to who wants to be the next Giants TE? By fear is by the time AR develops, it's bye bye AR. LOL. It's a very annoying trend. That's why I wanted Tyler E. the ND TE big time. I thought he and AR could have been a great duo.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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You have enough offense. We're going defense heavy in the draft for the next 2 years and you'll like it.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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You have enough offense. We're going defense heavy in the draft for the next 2 years and you'll like it.
Hey, I am happy. We went RB and then OL these past two years. It was nice actually! Who would have thought we would have drafted an RB in the first round? It's not defense that bothers me it's the clowns we hire that drains me appreciation for that side. You have to separate the two. I hated Lewis.. I hated Sheridan.. I hate Fewell. It's either I like the DC, like Spags a lot, or I loathe the other hires. There is no middle ground. If we insist on hiring someone who ins't the best, can we at least get an average DC? Why such extremes? 27th ranked defense and 31st ranked defense isn't going to cut it.

If Nicks goes to another team. I can see us drafting another WR at some point to keep adding to the stock. Plus we may keep adding to the OL too. I'd do that now because Baas is a china doll, Snee is on his last legs, and David D. is done.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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It's both our DCs and our talent. We need new blood on defense. I have high hopes that JPP and Moore can be our future DEs, maybe Tracy can be that 3rd DE. I like our DTs if we can re-sign Joseph. Our whole LB core needs work outside of JWill, and our whole secondary needs work outside of Prince.

Back 7 + another pass rusher is what we need.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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It's both our DCs and our talent. We need new blood on defense. I have high hopes that JPP and Moore can be our future DEs, maybe Tracy can be that 3rd DE. I like our DTs if we can re-sign Joseph. Our whole LB core needs work outside of JWill, and our whole secondary needs work outside of Prince.

Back 7 + another pass rusher is what we need.
I agree with that. But it seems like we miss with our DCs. Moore is interesting looks more like a LB than a DE. He needs to get a lot bigger if you're expecting him to be a functional DE vs a one trick pony. I like our DTs and want to see JH do his thing. I think he and LinJo could be a great duo for us. I want to see Rivers stay healthy. I think he can be highly productive and I like Curry. I hope he can save his career. There are prospects and players I like on defense but when I look big picture and see the guy pulling the strings, then that makes me mad.

If he extend Fewell I will be so mad!!
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I agree with that. But it seems like we miss with our DCs. Moore is interesting looks more like a LB than a DE. He needs to get a lot bigger if you're expecting him to be a functional DE vs a one trick pony. I like our DTs and want to see JH do his thing. I think he and LinJo could be a great duo for us. I want to see Rivers stay healthy. I think he can be highly productive and I like Curry. I hope he can save his career. There are prospects and players I like on defense but when I look big picture and see the guy pulling the strings, then that makes me mad.

If he extend Fewell I will be so mad!!
Moore will fill out his frame with time. He'll start out as a situational rusher. He's got the frame to pack on weight.

I'm not banking on Rivers and Curry. Both are on 1 year deals, both are injury prone. Do I really want to extend one or both of them? I want us to draft some quality linebackers for once. Enough with the reclamation projects and free agent filler.

I still can't believe we let Arthur Brown slip through our hands. That's gonna wind up being a terrible mistake.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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If Nicks goes then Brandon Coleman time!!
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Linebacker and DE are still higher on my list than 3rd WR.

I think my order as of right now is:

1. DE
2. LB
3. CB
4. S
5. OL
6. WR

In terms of 1st round priority. Of course player grades will ultimately dictate what we do, but in terms of importance right now, that's the order I have.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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WR is a non-issue if RR develops. If he doesn't, then we'll have to look at it.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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If Randle develops, I'm looking at WR in rounds 3 and beyond. We just need a 3rd WR who can beat nickel CBs. Randle being our #3 is currently a luxury, but it's not something we should look to always have.

We have other priorities, especially on defense.
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Yep, and I feel like you can find really good third WR's in the FA market too. Just like Murphy. I think he'll be a really good WR for us too.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I think Murphy was a pretty good find by Reese. He has tons of potential with a good qb throwing the ball. He actually wasn't bad for Carolina, I'm surprised they let him go.

Murphy will have a hard time getting on the field bc of Randle, but he's a great insurance policy to injury for us. Knowing Nicks, he'll probably miss some games and I feel confident with a trio of Randle, Cruz, and Murphy to get the job done in case that happens.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I'm on the Murphy train also. Very good find as our 4th WR. Going to help open up things even more up top.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Speaking of WRs, apparently Ramses Barden is playing behind the 3rd stringers.

Go get em Barden...

I think it's safe to say he won't make the team. I wonder if Jernigan is on his way out too. I think he sticks for one more year just bc we have NO backup slot WRs on the team. If Cruz goes down we need a guy who can play that role.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Murphy could play slot also I think if really needed.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Murphy could play slot also I think if really needed.
Murphy reminds me of Hixon. Ideally we keep 5 WRs maybe 6 right?

Nicks
Cruz
Randle
Murphy

Those guys are locks. Now if we keep 6 I don't see how Jernigan doesn't make the team. If we keep 5, then it could be a fight for the final spot.
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