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View Poll Results: Who will win the NBA Championship in 2013?
Miami Heat 15 26.79%
Miami Heat 3 5.36%
Miami Heat 31 55.36%
Miami Heat 6 10.71%
Miami Heat 1 1.79%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-02-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
I don't think the Knicks got any worse than last season, but they will probably finish worse than last season. Right now on paper, the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, and probably the Nets will all be more improved and better. The Knicks are probably looking at the the 4/5 seed with an outside chance at the 3 seed.

Granted, that is all based on the preseason on paper, but assuming teams avoid major injuries, I don't see how the Knicks are any better than those 4 really.

EDIT: And not to say they are that much worse or can't finish ahead of them, they just aren't definitively better is what I'm saying. It's the Heat, and then basically the other 4 below.
I think after Miami it's a cluster at the top, but I also think the Knicks can be just as good as any of those teams, yet it's spoken of as a foregone conclusion that they won't be.

All of those teams, Miami included, have their warts. Indy needs a PG still, Chicago still needs another scorer/Rose's knee, Brooklyn has to hope and pray that Garnett and Pierce aren't washed up and liabilities on defense, plus they have a rookie HC who never coached a day in his life.

It's not like the Knicks can't beat those teams.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Hibberts prone to injury? He's injured as much as any other player, missing 40 games in 5 seasons hardly qualifies as injury prone. And what are you talking about Hibbert playing on a level we've never seen before? He had down season statistically from the season before.

The rest of your reasoning is pure assumption. It's hard to believe a team with one of the best starting 5s in the league along with an improved bench would somehow gets jumped by the Detroit ******* Pistons.
???????????

As opposed to what? A trip to future coming back with proof?

I think the Pistons' Collection of Talent (new team name) will look like the Hawks of the last few years +.

I was referring to Hibbert's playoff performance. I think he'll revert back to his regular season form rather than the super human he was during the playoffs.

Obviously this isn't a pick many would make. I don't care. I think the Pacers fall off. There's no way to prove it now. I've given you my reasons. There's a lot of projecting involved - and their "low" seed has to do with the top of the conference getting better.

I think the Pistons' Collection of Talent will be pretty good this year. God forbid someone thinks a team who added all-star talents gets better.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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???????????

As opposed to what? A trip to future coming back with proof?

I think the Pistons' Collection of Talent (new team name) will look like the Hawks of the last few years +.

I was referring to Hibbert's playoff performance. I think he'll revert back to his regular season form rather than the super human he was during the playoffs.

Obviously this isn't a pick many would make. I don't care. I think the Pacers fall off. There's no way to prove it now. I've given you my reasons. There's a lot of projecting involved - and their "low" seed has to do with the top of the conference getting better.

I think the Pistons' Collection of Talent will be pretty good this year. God forbid someone thinks a team who added all-star talents gets better.
Neither Jennings or Josh Smith have ever been all stars so there's that. Unless you mean Josh Smith winning a dunk contest at All-Star weekend, so I guess that counts as "all-star talent". And GOD FORBID chemistry becomes a big roll for a teams success. Adding two inefficient chuckers will certainly make these Pistons a top 5 team in the East.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if DET did make the 8th seed, but the disparity in talent, defense, coaching and chemistry between them and the IND is too much for me to believe hey could ever pass the pacers. But hey it's your prediction, roll with it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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You want to project poor team chemistry - go right ahead. Clearly I'm not.

Smith has been INEFFICIENTZZZ as the No. 1B scoring threat for the Hawks the past few seasons but he's not a horrible offensive player by any stretch. And he's dynamite on D.

Jennings is super talented and extremely young - people are always so quick to criticize him and give him absolutely no time to grow because he's a weirdo.

The INNEFICENTZZZZZZZ label has two flaws:

1) completely undervalues guys who can get their own shot and are FORCED to take many shots because of their roles on **** teams.

2) a player IS nothing. A player can have a good shooting year or a bad shooting year. Performances can fluctuate from year to year. Josh Smith IS so inefficient yet a couple of years ago he shot 50% from the floor and led his **** Hawks team to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Not to mention the idea that a guy like Jennings, who we can all agree has major talent - perhaps even all-star capable-talent, a guy who shoots a stellar 80+ % from the FT line (and gets there a lot), at 23 years old, could improve his EFFICIENTZZYZY. If he doesn't improve his J at 23 years old something is very wrong. He will.

If you're telling me the Smoove is shooting it 18 times a game at 46 pct and Jennings is shooting it 17 times a game at 39 pct of course they aren't makign the playoffs.

I'm guessing Smoove has a nice year as a piece of a bigger puzzle, Jennings improves at age 23 (we'd be shocked if he DOESN'T), and the big men help in a big way on offense.

Not to mention their athleticism on D.

Teams win because of performance. And performance level changes from year to year. It's not a video game where guys have stats and play up to those stats and that's it.

No one is going to bash an Indy over Detroit scenario. All I did was step out of the box and predict one team to improve and another to regress.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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#AStormIsComing
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
You want to project poor team chemistry - go right ahead. Clearly I'm not.

Smith has been INEFFICIENTZZZ as the No. 1B scoring threat for the Hawks the past few seasons but he's not a horrible offensive player by any stretch. And he's dynamite on D.

Jennings is super talented and extremely young - people are always so quick to criticize him and give him absolutely no time to grow because he's a weirdo.

The INNEFICENTZZZZZZZ label has two flaws:

1) completely undervalues guys who can get their own shot and are FORCED to take many shots because of their roles on **** teams.

2) a player IS nothing. A player can have a good shooting year or a bad shooting year. Performances can fluctuate from year to year. Josh Smith IS so inefficient yet a couple of years ago he shot 50% from the floor and led his **** Hawks team to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Not to mention the idea that a guy like Jennings, who we can all agree has major talent - perhaps even all-star capable-talent, a guy who shoots a stellar 80+ % from the FT line (and gets there a lot), at 23 years old, could improve his EFFICIENTZZYZY. If he doesn't improve his J at 23 years old something is very wrong. He will.

If you're telling me the Smoove is shooting it 18 times a game at 46 pct and Jennings is shooting it 17 times a game at 39 pct of course they aren't makign the playoffs.

I'm guessing Smoove has a nice year as a piece of a bigger puzzle, Jennings improves at age 23 (we'd be shocked if he DOESN'T), and the big men help in a big way on offense.

Not to mention their athleticism on D.

Teams win because of performance. And performance level changes from year to year. It's not a video game where guys have stats and play up to those stats and that's it.

No one is going to bash an Indy over Detroit scenario. All I did was step out of the box and predict one team to improve and another to regress.
Well, your reasoning for Pacers regression doesn't make much sense... No sense actually.

You have your prediction and I have mine. I predict that your prediction will be completely wrong. That's where we are.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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1) Three teams in the Pacers division got better. And the Nets got much better. And the East adds a healthy Wall for the entire season, a healthy Rose for the entire season, and potentially a healthy Bynum for the entire season. Just like the Knicks are going to win less than 54 games for these reasons, the Pacers win total will drop too.

2) Adding Granger stirs the pot.

3) George had an amazing year last year. Regression is likely unless he's truly a top 5ish player in the league. I don't think he is.

4) Any big injury would cripple the team due to a bad bench.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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#AStormIsComing
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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I think after Miami it's a cluster at the top, but I also think the Knicks can be just as good as any of those teams, yet it's spoken of as a foregone conclusion that they won't be.

All of those teams, Miami included, have their warts. Indy needs a PG still, Chicago still needs another scorer/Rose's knee, Brooklyn has to hope and pray that Garnett and Pierce aren't washed up and liabilities on defense, plus they have a rookie HC who never coached a day in his life.

It's not like the Knicks can't beat those teams.
Agreed, it's all a cluster. But personally, and pretty much everyone else outside NY, believe the Knicks won't be the #2 coming out of that group. Not that it means they won't/can't, but odds I would say are against them.

The PG situation in NY is at best slightly better than Indiana, and much worse than Chicago and Brooklyn.

The Knicks do not have a 2nd scorer. You can trot out JR as much as you want, but he is possibly marginally better than Deng/Boozer and bring absolutely nothing else whereas Deng/Boozer do. So yes, he may produce 1-2 more ppg, but in the grand scheme of things is not a good #2.

The Knicks are a good defensive team, there's no denying that. There's no reason to think the Nets will be terrible on defense with even a washed up Garnett and Pierce. They will at least be decent on D, and on offense are not like they are veteran bench guys at the end of their careers. Both are still starting caliber players. Kidd as a HC is definitely a concern, but they have a very veteran team and Lawrence Frank on the bench, so it's not like they will be the Vinny Del Negro-led Bulls.

So like I said, there's really no way anyone can definitively say one of these teams is better than the others, and imo especially the Knicks. I think the others improved significantly more this offseason, whereas the Knicks basically added Bargs and a rookie jump shooter. I don't think the Knicks got any worse, but they probably will take a step back relative to the others stepping up.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Waiting on the Oden decision....
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Why?

#AStormIsComingForHimAnyway
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, it's all a cluster. But personally, and pretty much everyone else outside NY, believe the Knicks won't be the #2 coming out of that group. Not that it means they won't/can't, but odds I would say are against them.

The PG situation in NY is at best slightly better than Indiana, and much worse than Chicago and Brooklyn.

The Knicks do not have a 2nd scorer. You can trot out JR as much as you want, but he is possibly marginally better than Deng/Boozer and bring absolutely nothing else whereas Deng/Boozer do. So yes, he may produce 1-2 more ppg, but in the grand scheme of things is not a good #2.

The Knicks are a good defensive team, there's no denying that. There's no reason to think the Nets will be terrible on defense with even a washed up Garnett and Pierce. They will at least be decent on D, and on offense are not like they are veteran bench guys at the end of their careers. Both are still starting caliber players. Kidd as a HC is definitely a concern, but they have a very veteran team and Lawrence Frank on the bench, so it's not like they will be the Vinny Del Negro-led Bulls.

So like I said, there's really no way anyone can definitively say one of these teams is better than the others, and imo especially the Knicks. I think the others improved significantly more this offseason, whereas the Knicks basically added Bargs and a rookie jump shooter. I don't think the Knicks got any worse, but they probably will take a step back relative to the others stepping up.
Bro...it's a lot more fun when we troll each other.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Why?

#AStormIsComingForHimAnyway
If healthy, he could be a big factor for us. Even more than Birdman was last year.

#ClearSkiesfortheweekend
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Bro...it's a lot more fun when we troll each other.
Rose >>>>>>>> Felton
Butler > Shump
Deng >> MWP
Boozer = Melo
Noah > Chandler

Come at me brah.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Rose > Felton
Butler << Shumpert
Deng = Worldpeace
Boozer <<<<< Melo
Noah = Chandler

Fixed for accuracy. Which pretty much means we'll win in 6 games.

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Old 08-02-2013, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Even Rose on 1 leg is far superior to the Felt. (does Felton even have a nickname? If not, he is now The Felt)
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Rose >>> Felton
Butler < Shumpert
Deng > Worldpeace
Boozer <<< Melo
Noah >> Chandler
Hinrich < JR
Gibson = Amare
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
bantx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Even Rose on 1 leg is far superior to the Felt. (does Felton even have a nickname? If not, he is now The Felt)
Or He's Felt On
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Felt up.....
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Felt the Buffet a Little Too Much
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by zachsaints52 View Post
Rose >>> Felton
Butler < Shumpert
Deng > Worldpeace
Boozer <<< Melo
Noah >> Chandler
Hinrich < JR
Gibson = Amare
This is probably most accurate imo. I would probably say Noah and Chandler are still closer, and at this point in their careers I would give the slight advantage to Gibson over Stat if only because Gibson is healthy with more consistency and can play defense.

But the Knicks lost their token white guy (Prigioni and Bargs don't count), and the Bulls picked up Dunleavy. Pretty sure that puts us...

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Old 08-02-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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How does Bargs not count?!
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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This is probably most accurate imo. I would probably say Noah and Chandler are still closer, and at this point in their careers I would give the slight advantage to Gibson over Stat if only because Gibson is healthy with more consistency and can play defense.

But the Knicks lost their token white guy (Prigioni and Bargs don't count), and the Bulls picked up Dunleavy. Pretty sure that puts us...

Noah has the better overall game, by far. I wouldn't say Gibson is over Stat if his knees co-operate. If both healthy, itd be Gibson < Stat. But because of health its =
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I admit, at this point, Noah is much better than Chandler. He's not a black hole on offense. He has much better hands, he's a much better passer, he knows how to move without the basketball, he's more durable, he has a better jumper, he's just plain better.

And don't give me that crap about FG % Snowflake. I know that's coming. Hooray, Chandler knows how to dunk. Cool. He's still completely useless on offense.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Best arm-wrestling movie EVER.


And Bargs is European therefore we can't count him as white token player.
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