Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-09-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
Jvig43
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dropping Brady Passes
Posts: 17,056
Reputation: 4964110
Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Honestly I wouldn't call him below average but Cutler gets too much defense around these parts, even accounting for the ****** O-line he has.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD View Post
Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
Jvig43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 08:41 PM    (permalink
jth1331
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,705
Reputation: 68586
jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
Honestly I wouldn't call him below average but Cutler gets too much defense around these parts, even accounting for the ****** O-line he has.
If this was his 3rd/4th year in the league, okay he can have SOME defense.
But when its his 8th year, and he has yet to make any progress on his negatives from his first few years in the league, then he is what he is. An average QB.
I mean, look at in 2008, week 2 against San Diego. Absolutely amazing first half. Second half comes along, and its a struggle with him. He throws a red zone interception, and then what should've been a game ending fumble in the red zone. He still has these games where he will look great for a series, and then throws a dumb pass that gets picked.
I really expect him to do what he always does, be average, Bears end up around 8-8, and then it becomes a big decision for the Bears. Resign an average QB in Cutler, or go draft a franchise QB to take you to the next level.
jth1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 09:05 PM    (permalink
smittyjs
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hendersonville, VYisaGod
Posts: 9,305
Reputation: 128139
smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
In no particular order:

Brady
Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Ryan
Flacco
Manning
Roethlisburger
Luck
Stafford
Wilson
Griffin III
Schaub
Romo
Newton
Dalton
Rivers

Everyone on that list besides arguably Dalton and Schaub are definitively better than Cutler. Plus there is a decent argument to be made for a few more guys as well. I've made my thoughts clear on Cutler in many other threads, so there is no need to rehash them here.
Cutler is better then romo, rivers, dalton and Schaub. Cutler learn to throw some passes away he would be golden
__________________

Jay Cutler>Matt Leinart>>>>danman253
XBL GT smitty js Go Vandy!!!!!!
Chris Johnson son!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoUr82vUx60
http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/pacman.htm
smittyjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 11:58 PM    (permalink
bearfan
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CLS
Posts: 6,006
Reputation: 27692
bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjs View Post
Cutler is better then romo, rivers, dalton and Schaub. Cutler learn to throw some passes away he would be golden
I'm a Bears fan...no. I have yet to see Cutler take over a game. Take injuries out, I think most of those guys have put the team on their back at one point or another. I cannot say I have seen this from Jay since he has been here.

Cutler better than Romo? Laughable. Romo gets too much flak.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansDooma View Post
who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
bearfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 09:42 AM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Stafford
Wilson
Griffin III
Schaub
Romo
Newton
Dalton
Rivers

These guys are definitively better than Cutler? lol you did not disappoint.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,159
Reputation: 2029945
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Stafford
Wilson
Griffin III
Schaub
Romo
Newton
Dalton
Rivers

These guys are definitively better than Cutler? lol you did not disappoint.
Yes, I'll play tennis and hit it back to you, why is Cutler better than any of those guys? Does he lead his offense to more points? Does he turn the ball over less frequently per pass than those guys? Has he historically won more games than any of those guys besides Newton? Is his supporting cast necessarily worse than that of Rivers or Newton?

There isn't a coherent argument to be made in Cutler's favor besides that his o-line sucks. He might look good avoiding the rush and driving a laser into his receiver hands once every 5 series or so, but that completely ignores the rest of the game where he looks genuinely erratic regardless of whether his line is playing poorly or not.

Last edited by cmarq83 : 08-10-2013 at 11:05 AM.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The **** has Stafford done that Jay Cutler didn't do in Denver throwing to Brandon Marshall instead of Calvin? Same for Romo, Rivers and Cam? Jay Cutler's never played on a good team, in Denver they had a historically bad defense, like as bad as the 0-16 lions bad, that he, Marshall and Ryan Clady dragged to 8-8 records.

In Chicago he got the defense but lost the offense, Marshall's a step to giving him something to work with and Forte's a nice second weapon but that OL has been as bad the defense where in Denver, and the offensive coordinator has been far from a strength for the bears.

Looking at numbers with exclusion of how they are achieved on the field is just as dumb as basing things on them while simply waving off any of the context.

Am I saying he's the top 5 QB he could've become? No, but your ridiculous under-rating of him is just hilarious.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 08-10-2013 at 12:35 PM.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
ChiFan24
2011 SWDC Mock Draft Champ
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: <3 cutty <3
Posts: 2,333
Reputation: 727262
ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ChiFan24 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Why did I click on this thread?
__________________
ChiFan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 716
Reputation: 469019
Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Id say Cutler is right there in the mix with a lot of those guys on that list. depending on personal preference, you could make an argument that any of

stafford
dalton
rivers
romo
schaub

are better or worse than Cutler. and arguments both ways would be valid...Im not including Cam, RG3, Wilson in there b/c they are just too young to be compared to a vet like Cutler. I feel like they are all way better than Cutler, but then again I thought Cutler would be way better than he is right now after the way his first few years went, so we have to wait and see with those guys...But yes I think the general them is Cutler is somewhere around an averaging starting QB in this league...

Its true it is a golden age for quarterbacks and it seems like its very hard to go far in the playoffs with just an average QB. But Cutler has the ability to play like a great one. He is different from guys like Schaub and Dalton who are already playing close to their ceilings. You look at a guy like Flacco whose ceiling is the sky, and who hasnt played like he is an elite QB for most of his career, but in the playoffs he harnessed all his god-given ability and led his team. Cutler does have that capability. If he gets into some kind of zone and is surrounded with the right weapons, he has the ability to morph into an elite QB for at least some period of time. He will probably not get that opportunity, and may not have the mental makeup anyways, but Im saying he has that kind of ability, so thats why he is appealing. But based on his current level of play, he is somewhere around the middle the pick among starting QBs. Probably would be ranked between 12-20 by all rational people.
Eazy Picks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 06:54 PM    (permalink
jth1331
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,705
Reputation: 68586
jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
The **** has Stafford done that Jay Cutler didn't do in Denver throwing to Brandon Marshall instead of Calvin? Same for Romo, Rivers and Cam? Jay Cutler's never played on a good team, in Denver they had a historically bad defense, like as bad as the 0-16 lions bad, that he, Marshall and Ryan Clady dragged to 8-8 records.

In Chicago he got the defense but lost the offense, Marshall's a step to giving him something to work with and Forte's a nice second weapon but that OL has been as bad the defense where in Denver, and the offensive coordinator has been far from a strength for the bears.

Looking at numbers with exclusion of how they are achieved on the field is just as dumb as basing things on them while simply waving off any of the context.

Am I saying he's the top 5 QB he could've become? No, but your ridiculous under-rating of him is just hilarious.
Well, Stafford did throw for 40+ TD's and 5,000 yards. Cutler never sniffed those numbers.
Plus Stafford never led the NFL in interceptions in a season. So he's got that too...
Cutler just turns the ball over way too much, even in Denver. Heck, Stafford had nearly 300 more pass attempts than Cutler, yet only threw 3 more interceptions than Cutler.

People like to bog down Sam Bradford, but he had 1 less interception with 120 more pass attempts.
I mean, if people are going to call Cutler a good QB, then Sam Bradford is right there with him.

People have this weird tendency to just hate/like players without looking at the broader picture. This site has a lot of love for Cutler and hate for Bradford.
jth1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 06:56 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Hey someone mentioned on another thread that Marquess Wilson was doing well there...does he look like a lock to make the team and, if so, get some playing time?
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 06:58 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
Well, Stafford did throw for 40+ TD's and 5,000 yards. Cutler never sniffed those numbers.
Plus Stafford never led the NFL in interceptions in a season. So he's got that too...
Cutler just turns the ball over way too much, even in Denver. Heck, Stafford had nearly 300 more pass attempts than Cutler, yet only threw 3 more interceptions than Cutler.

People like to bog down Sam Bradford, but he had 1 less interception with 120 more pass attempts.
I mean, if people are going to call Cutler a good QB, then Sam Bradford is right there with him.

People have this weird tendency to just hate/like players without looking at the broader picture. This site has a lot of love for Cutler and hate for Bradford.
That should change this season. Sam's gonna break out.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
Well, Stafford did throw for 40+ TD's and 5,000 yards. Cutler never sniffed those numbers.
Plus Stafford never led the NFL in interceptions in a season. So he's got that too...
Cutler just turns the ball over way too much, even in Denver. Heck, Stafford had nearly 300 more pass attempts than Cutler, yet only threw 3 more interceptions than Cutler.

People like to bog down Sam Bradford, but he had 1 less interception with 120 more pass attempts.
I mean, if people are going to call Cutler a good QB, then Sam Bradford is right there with him.

People have this weird tendency to just hate/like players without looking at the broader picture. This site has a lot of love for Cutler and hate for Bradford.
Stafford put up those numbers one a ridiculous amount more passes in a different NFL. Cutler's performances with Denver were near the top of the league at the time. Stats inflating since then doesn't change that.

As for Bradford I do think he's a good starter, but he hasn't yet accomplished what Cutler has nor is his best as good as jay's. The Jay we saw in Denver was awesome, even if his INT numbers weren't that low because of how predictable Shanny had become and how much they threw the ball deep. And he hasn't really played all that much worse in Chicago, but the same caliber of play isn't getting nearly the same the results with a hilariously bad OL instead of a really good one.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 10:20 PM    (permalink
smittyjs
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hendersonville, VYisaGod
Posts: 9,305
Reputation: 128139
smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.smittyjs is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearfan View Post
I'm a Bears fan...no. I have yet to see Cutler take over a game. Take injuries out, I think most of those guys have put the team on their back at one point or another. I cannot say I have seen this from Jay since he has been here.

Cutler better than Romo? Laughable. Romo gets too much flak.
I'm a vandy fan so I say yes due to my homer point of view, but I can't any hype around romo, never won a playoff game with some talented teams in the past and it doesn't help that he just got a huge over paying contract that is clearly not worth. I would go cutler of rivers because rivers is a douche bag, dalton and Schaub is a toss up for me
__________________

Jay Cutler>Matt Leinart>>>>danman253
XBL GT smitty js Go Vandy!!!!!!
Chris Johnson son!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoUr82vUx60
http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/pacman.htm
smittyjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 10:20 PM    (permalink
jth1331
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,705
Reputation: 68586
jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Stafford put up those numbers one a ridiculous amount more passes in a different NFL. Cutler's performances with Denver were near the top of the league at the time. Stats inflating since then doesn't change that.

As for Bradford I do think he's a good starter, but he hasn't yet accomplished what Cutler has nor is his best as good as jay's. The Jay we saw in Denver was awesome, even if his INT numbers weren't that low because of how predictable Shanny had become and how much they threw the ball deep. And he hasn't really played all that much worse in Chicago, but the same caliber of play isn't getting nearly the same the results with a hilariously bad OL instead of a really good one.
Stafford's year in 2011, he ended up having 50ish more pass attempts than Cutler's best year, in 2008 with Denver. With just 50 more pass attempts, he threw for less interceptions, 16 more TD's, and 500 more yards averaging more yards per attempt as well.
Jay was not awesome in Denver. He showed promise, but he was too inconsistent. Make the excuse that Shanahan became predictable, but it was Cutler who made the bonehead throws that cost games and nearly cost games. Fact is, he's played overall as an average QB during his career. His decision making is poor at times and turnover prone. He would've made the corrections necessary by now if he was going to change from average to good.
jth1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,159
Reputation: 2029945
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
The **** has Stafford done that Jay Cutler didn't do in Denver throwing to Brandon Marshall instead of Calvin? Same for Romo, Rivers and Cam? Jay Cutler's never played on a good team, in Denver they had a historically bad defense, like as bad as the 0-16 lions bad, that he, Marshall and Ryan Clady dragged to 8-8 records.
Well to start he led an team that finished 3rd points that scored close to 30 PPG despite having a bad defense to the playoffs. Cutler's best year in (7!) he only led a middle of the pack offense in terms of points at 23 PPG (good for 16th that year) with a bad defense to an 8-8 record in a horrible division. In fact in Stafford's previous season he looked more like 2008 Jay Cutler than Jay Cutler looked like 2011 Stafford in 2008.

Rivers has had multiple seasons that blow away anything that Cutler has ever done. Plus, in case you haven't noticed his supporting cast last season was even worse than Cutler's.

Cam is a unique talent, who again had a better 2011 season than anything that Cutler has ever produced.

Tony Romo has basically been doing what Cutler did in 2008, but for a longer and more consistent stretch of time. Behind a line which you yourself have said isn't very good.

Quote:
In Chicago he got the defense but lost the offense, Marshall's a step to giving him something to work with and Forte's a nice second weapon but that OL has been as bad the defense where in Denver, and the offensive coordinator has been far from a strength for the bears.
Which is fine to an extent, but the results have not been good from an execution standpoint. In 6 of his 7 years in the league he has led a below average offense. In that time he's had different coordinators, lineman, receivers, and backs, and he's really only kind of made it work once when he had one of the best lines in the league, a rushing offense that gained over a 4.8 ypc clip, and a true #1 receiver. Considering all that he had on offense and the fact that he was in shootout conditions in a lot of games 23 PPG is pretty piss poor.

Quote:
Looking at numbers with exclusion of how they are achieved on the field is just as dumb as basing things on them while simply waving off any of the context.

Am I saying he's the top 5 QB he could've become? No, but your ridiculous under-rating of him is just hilarious.
No, but letting the context consistently be the only excuse for years upon years is idiotic. I have given Cutler plenty of chances to prove himself. Even in games where the line holds up, he still usually looks mediocre. That's because he's a really mediocre player.

Last edited by cmarq83 : 08-11-2013 at 10:27 AM.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 04:24 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,561
Reputation: 1199061
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

A guy like Cutler needs a hard ass OC/HC to keep his game reined in, almost on a play by play basis.
It's what Favre had in Holmgren, and what Romo has NEVER had in Jason Garrett.

These QBs gamble too much and trust in their own abilities to a fault. Brett Favre could get away with making 'bad' decisions because his accuracy and arm strength could make up for it; i.e., Favre was simply talented enough to be successful taking crazy risks and making iffy decisions with the football.

If we don't see a pro bowl type season from Cutler this year, or at least one where he eliminates those characteristic mistakes he seems to make every game, I don't think he's ever going to be a next-level QB.


I still love his talent and think if you give Cutler a run game to play behind and a solid Oline, he can win big for the Bears.
It's a crime the pathetic olines he's been expected to execute behind in Chicago. Some of the worst olines annually in the NFL.
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 06:33 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,815
Reputation: 1665507
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm not going to get into the Cutler, Romo, Rivers debate going on here but it definitely seems like one rule for some but not for all when evaluating these guys.

What I will say is this is the year for these guys to either sink or swim. All 3 teams have invested in their offensive line. All 3 teams have dedicated a first round draft pick to help shoring up protection.

Rivers still doesn't have the weapons, though one could argue his weapons at the start of his career completely eclipsed any of the other guy's weapons at any stage.

Cutler this year will have Marshall, a hopefully improving Jeffrey, Martellus Bennett, a better offensive line and Matt Forté. In the scheme of things that is a pretty damn goor group to play with.

Romo has Dez, Miles, Witten, Murray and what should be a better offensive line.

No one is questioning whether or not these guys can make ridiculously good plays, however consistency with all is the key.

I have no set criteria for what determines whether a QB is elite or not, however when it comes to these guys do you trust them to drive the field in the last 2 minutes to win the game? Because I don't.

If any of these guys can reduce the amount of what the **** plays then they could challenge for a top 5/7 spot among active QBs, however when you factor in their horrendous decision making on a too frequent basis I would not be confident putting any of these guys in a top 12 list
__________________


BoneKrusher killing it with the sig
AntoinCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 05:00 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 716
Reputation: 469019
Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Eazy Picks is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I'm not going to get into the Cutler, Romo, Rivers debate going on here but it definitely seems like one rule for some but not for all when evaluating these guys.

What I will say is this is the year for these guys to either sink or swim. All 3 teams have invested in their offensive line. All 3 teams have dedicated a first round draft pick to help shoring up protection.

Rivers still doesn't have the weapons, though one could argue his weapons at the start of his career completely eclipsed any of the other guy's weapons at any stage.

Cutler this year will have Marshall, a hopefully improving Jeffrey, Martellus Bennett, a better offensive line and Matt Forté. In the scheme of things that is a pretty damn goor group to play with.

Romo has Dez, Miles, Witten, Murray and what should be a better offensive line.

No one is questioning whether or not these guys can make ridiculously good plays, however consistency with all is the key.

I have no set criteria for what determines whether a QB is elite or not, however when it comes to these guys do you trust them to drive the field in the last 2 minutes to win the game? Because I don't.

If any of these guys can reduce the amount of what the **** plays then they could challenge for a top 5/7 spot among active QBs, however when you factor in their horrendous decision making on a too frequent basis I would not be confident putting any of these guys in a top 12 list
yea that really is the issue with all 3 of these guys. When you pose the 2minute question, my answer is that a 2minute drill with any of these guys is an adventure. With the great QBs (Brady, Rodgers, Manning bros...), there is the sense of impending doom as they drive down the field like there is just no way they are gonna be stopped. With Rivers, Romo or Cutler, you know they have the ability to make plays and make it happen, but then theres just the possibility that they will just do something ridiculous and lose the game on one play b/c he decided to force the ball across the field instead of just throwing it away, or didnt get his team up to the line and spike it and instead wasted 15 seconds calling audibles at the line, or tried to evade a sack and fumble, etc etc...

All three have dealt with poor offensive lines, and some of those plays have to do with a QB getting into bad habits b/c of poor protection, but ultimately they have to take the blame for it. Look at a guy like Rodgers whose line is **** and he almost never turns the ball over. He eats a lot of sacks, but he doesnt force throws and he protects the football. He stays calm in the face of pressure and makes good decisions. These guys don't. And until they learn to, they will continue to be average quarterbacks, and thats right around where all 3 of them are. But i think you naming their supporting casts its clear the Cowboys have the best talent. So thats why I see Romo having the best year, and I do think Romo does the best job of making plays under intense pass pressure, but he is also the worst when it comes to the WTF moments.
Eazy Picks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.