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Old 08-24-2013, 07:30 AM    (permalink
MassNole
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I am surprised how good he has been in the NFL. Talent aside, he was the beneficiary of the most blatantly disgusting stat padding ion the history of CFB.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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da ng, after one pre-season game, everyone going off about Keuchly? His stats were padded his rookie year. He didn't make enough plays at the LOS. He reminded me of Barrett Ruud coming out of school.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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I am surprised how good he has been in the NFL. Talent aside, he was the beneficiary of the most blatantly disgusting stat padding ion the history of CFB.

I watched more than my fair share of BC games 2010-11 and Kuechly was one of those who if you wanted to know where the football was going, all you had to do is watch him. Many games it seemed like he made every single tackle for Boston College, so I don't agree his stats were padded.

He often outran his own guys to make tackles teed up for someone else.

Stat-padding for tackles is when a guy is the 2nd or 3rd defender to the ball and given credit for a tackle. Kuechly was either the first or second guy tackling a ballcarrier.

Are you really complaining about the legitimacy of his stats at BC??

Keep up. We're on NFL time now.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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da ng, after one pre-season game, everyone going off about Keuchly? His stats were padded his rookie year. He didn't make enough plays at the LOS. He reminded me of Barrett Ruud coming out of school.
LOL. It kills me that a rival ACC and NFCS fan are suggesting Kuechly is overrated.

If Kuechly trends anywhere close to how he played against the Ravens preseason, he's on track for a DPOTY campaign.

Every time I read Kuechly compared to Barrett Ruud, it sounds like bad a joke.
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Old 08-24-2013, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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da ng, after one pre-season game, everyone going off about Keuchly? His stats were padded his rookie year. He didn't make enough plays at the LOS. He reminded me of Barrett Ruud coming out of school.
Yeah he totally didn't make an impact at all. Total JAG. That's why the Panthers went from like 30th in DYPG week 5 and finished about 7th or 8th the rest of the way when Kuechly switched to MLB. Total Barrett Ruud.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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LOL. It kills me that a rival ACC and NFCS fan are suggesting Kuechly is overrated.

If Kuechly trends anywhere close to how he played against the Ravens preseason, he's on track for a DPOTY campaign.

Every time I read Kuechly compared to Barrett Ruud, it sounds like bad a joke.
Not really biased against the Panthers. I was actually telling my Buc fans that they looked pretty good. Loutelleli is going to be the next Ngata for you guys for years and Short is perfect for the 3 tech with Hardy and Johnson rushing outside. I've even said how Mark Dominik, a few yhears back, can even think of passing on Hardy for a damn punter.

I didn't like Keuchly coming out and I didn't see much impressiveness through the games I watched last year. Didn't make enough impact plays at the LOS and made several tackles down field. I watched him get run through a couple times as well, ala Barrett Ruud, who made several tackles but not enough plays.

To put it clear, when I saw Keuckly mocked to the Bucs in 2012, I squirmed. So it;'s not just the Panthers.

BTW, I also think the Panthers can finish 2nd in that division. I think Atlanta is the clear cut winner. Bucs: Freeman needs to get his head out of his rear end (no explicity ) or they're going t get trounced.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Not really biased against the Panthers. I was actually telling my Buc fans that they looked pretty good. Loutelleli is going to be the next Ngata for you guys for years and Short is perfect for the 3 tech with Hardy and Johnson rushing outside. I've even said how Mark Dominik, a few yhears back, can even think of passing on Hardy for a damn punter.

I didn't like Keuchly coming out and I didn't see much impressiveness through the games I watched last year. Didn't make enough impact plays at the LOS and made several tackles down field. I watched him get run through a couple times as well, ala Barrett Ruud, who made several tackles but not enough plays.

To put it clear, when I saw Keuckly mocked to the Bucs in 2012, I squirmed. So it;'s not just the Panthers.

BTW, I also think the Panthers can finish 2nd in that division. I think Atlanta is the clear cut winner. Bucs: Freeman needs to get his head out of his rear end (no explicity ) or they're going t get trounced.
Honestly it takes a very untrained football eye to see what Kuechly did at BC and find it unimpressive. Rarely if ever does any collegiate LB get placed with the kind of responsibility and challenge that Kuechly did at BC. The Eagles primarily played in nickel, and Kuechly had pass coverage drops that very few players are even capable of.

Obviously when you're accumulating 190 tackles in college it's unreasonable to think that >50% are going to be within 2-3 yards of the LOS. If they were then that person would be the greatest MLB who ever lived. However, the notion that tackling someone down the field is always an average or bad play is ridiculous.

For example a very common play at BC for Kuechly was a tackle 7ish yards down the field on a stretch play against their nickel defense. Kevin Pierre-Lewis would be the play-side backer and the opposing offense would seal both him and the end. The RB would turn the corner unmolested. Kuechly would fight off the sealing Tackle or end from the away side and take as flat of an angle as he could eventually forcing the RB out of bounds. Considering that he's essentially the 6th or 7th most likely player to make the tackle from that position and defeated a block to get there, that is a fantastic play.

There are so many nuances to Kuechly's game that are hard to pick up, but he limited so much damage at BC. He was exceptional in pass coverage, and even though you may say he didn't make enough tackles at the LOS, he made 4-5 every single game. Guys like Kendricks or Hightower looked more disruptive simply because they had the freedom to do so. They blitzed 10ish times a game. Those may make a nicer highlight film, but that doesn't give you the same impact on the field.

You can tell his impact just by looking at the teams he joined and left. Carolina got substantially better defensively once he was inserted at MLB, and BC turned into a trainwreck once he left despite returning 9 starters on defense. They allowed almost a full touchdown more a game and 700 more yards on the ground than they did in 2011. He dragged those BC teams to respectability despite them having an offense consistently ranked in the hundreds, and marginal talent elsewhere defensively.

Now that he has another year's experience and some guys who can keep lineman off of him for the first time in his pro or collegiate career, I expect him to take an even bigger leap.
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Honestly it takes a very untrained football eye to see what Kuechly did at BC and find it unimpressive. Rarely if ever does any collegiate LB get placed with the kind of responsibility and challenge that Kuechly did at BC. The Eagles primarily played in nickel, and Kuechly had pass coverage drops that very few players are even capable of.

Obviously when you're accumulating 190 tackles in college it's unreasonable to think that >50% are going to be within 2-3 yards of the LOS. If they were then that person would be the greatest MLB who ever lived. However, the notion that tackling someone down the field is always an average or bad play is ridiculous.

For example a very common play at BC for Kuechly was a tackle 7ish yards down the field on a stretch play against their nickel defense. Kevin Pierre-Lewis would be the play-side backer and the opposing offense would seal both him and the end. The RB would turn the corner unmolested. Kuechly would fight off the sealing Tackle or end from the away side and take as flat of an angle as he could eventually forcing the RB out of bounds. Considering that he's essentially the 6th or 7th most likely player to make the tackle from that position and defeated a block to get there, that is a fantastic play.

There are so many nuances to Kuechly's game that are hard to pick up, but he limited so much damage at BC. He was exceptional in pass coverage, and even though you may say he didn't make enough tackles at the LOS, he made 4-5 every single game. Guys like Kendricks or Hightower looked more disruptive simply because they had the freedom to do so. They blitzed 10ish times a game. Those may make a nicer highlight film, but that doesn't give you the same impact on the field.

You can tell his impact just by looking at the teams he joined and left. Carolina got substantially better defensively once he was inserted at MLB, and BC turned into a trainwreck once he left despite returning 9 starters on defense. They allowed almost a full touchdown more a game and 700 more yards on the ground than they did in 2011. He dragged those BC teams to respectability despite them having an offense consistently ranked in the hundreds, and marginal talent elsewhere defensively.

Now that he has another year's experience and some guys who can keep lineman off of him for the first time in his pro or collegiate career, I expect him to take an even bigger leap.
wow Bucfan sorry you just got owned.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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I am surprised how good he has been in the NFL. Talent aside, he was the beneficiary of the most blatantly disgusting stat padding ion the history of CFB.
If only he played in a real conferance like FSU does.
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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He was a great player in college but I questioned if he had the athleticism and explosiveness to be an impact performer in the NFL. His instincts were crazy at BC. He always just was around the ball.
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Old 08-24-2013, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Kuechly is going to be the best inside linebacker in the league eventually if he isn't already. He is one of the best athletes (yes, even though he's white lolracism), almost always takes perfect pursuit angles, has incredible football instincts, is smart, etc. etc. What more do you want from the guy? As someone who's played MLB, watching Kuechly play is a thing of beauty.

Hall of famer in the making, haters:

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Old 08-25-2013, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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His not even the 2nd best 2nd year LB Wagner and David are still 1-2, until that PFF top 100 list comes out a Kuechly is ranked higher then them he is still behind them.

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Old 08-25-2013, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Like others have said there are certain positions that just simply get picked high in the draft. I would say it goes like this top to bottom. And possibly now the OLB/DE pass rusher might have moved ahead of the great OT but with the QB obsessions the great OT still might have the edge of that.

QB
OT
OLB/DE pass rusher
DT




If people did not watch the preseason game against the Ravens, Kuechly was insanely good in it. Anyone that questions him as an elite player is simply wrong. And yes of course he should have been picked higher, as should have other prospects like many have already said.

I had him as the best linebacker prospect in the nation in 2010, great to see him living up to that in the NFL.
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...hlight=kuechly



But with the list of players already mentioned, you take Alec Ogeltree this past 2013 draft, no way in hell he should have dropped as far as he did, and he is playing great this preseason, amazing coverage skills shown against the Broncos. Same with Te'o but what else is new, inside linebacker dropped.



Doubt things will change much, it is all about the quarterback in the NFL, protecting them on offense and getting to them on defense.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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^^^^

Dude the dumbest thing for evidence is to use a preseason game highlights. If he continues this to this year, then I'll eat crow.

also, Ogeltree is a freak athletically, but he lacks discipline, instincts, and is off the field headache.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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^^^^

Dude the dumbest thing for evidence is to use a preseason game highlights. If he continues this to this year, then I'll eat crow.

also, Ogeltree is a freak athletically, but he lacks discipline, instincts, and is off the field headache.

The preseason is very relevant for defensive players. Lawrence Taylor's rep started in preseason. Clay MatthewsIII made a splash in preseason.
Von Miller looked like a future beast in preseason too.

You can't make generalities about TEAMS in preseason play, but you can for sure isolate the play of individual players, especially LBs.
Kuechly looks like a better MIKE now than he was last season, which is significant.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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The preseason is very relevant for defensive players. Lawrence Taylor's rep started in preseason. Clay MatthewsIII made a splash in preseason.
Von Miller looked like a future beast in preseason too.

You can't make generalities about TEAMS in preseason play, but you can for sure isolate the play of individual players, especially LBs.
Kuechly looks like a better MIKE now than he was last season, which is significant.
This all may be true and I'll eat crow if/when it occurs. But for people to get all hyped up off one preseason game, is well, a little overblown.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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This all may be true and I'll eat crow if/when it occurs. But for people to get all hyped up off one preseason game, is well, a little overblown.

LOL. If Kuechly played for the Bucs you'd be buying his jersey.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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bucfan12

This all may be true and I'll eat crow if/when it occurs. But for people to get all hyped up off one preseason game, is well, a little overblown.
Football is football, starting talent is starting talent. He was not doing that against backups or against a bad team.

Sure it does not show everything is all world, but still not quite sure how you do not think last year was proof enough he can play in the league.

What exactly do you not like about him? The fact he plays hard? His good instincts in reading play designs? His athletic ability? His conditioning? His speed and coverage abilities? Or he does not get enough sacks for you.... please.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Preseason reps don't count for some people.

It's insane. It's still football. You aren't supposed to draw conclusions based on game results because teams are focused on sorting certain things out rather than winning.

But it's absolutely important and meaningful to evaluate the reps individual players get. Think about when you had a scrimmage before the season started. It's still important and the good players would still show well. That happens in the NFL too. Stars start out in preseason. They tend to do well there because they are good at football.

Preseason SCORES don't matter in any way. But for young players - evaluating their reps against a different color jersey is absolutely an important tool and can be used as a predictor of success. Notice I didn't say evaluating stats.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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I love Kuechly but being DROTY in the NFL almost always goes to LB's, especially ILB's, because they can easily put up stats for all to see. However, they are often overrated and not as good as advertised in a passing league. Demeco Ryans was a good example of this.
Personally I believe Kuechly is a solid player because of his speed and a far better player than Ryans, just saying you have to be careful when judging ILB's, even if they win awards as a rookie.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
Football is football, starting talent is starting talent. He was not doing that against backups or against a bad team.

Sure it does not show everything is all world, but still not quite sure how you do not think last year was proof enough he can play in the league.

What exactly do you not like about him? The fact he plays hard? His good instincts in reading play designs? His athletic ability? His conditioning? His speed and coverage abilities? Or he does not get enough sacks for you.... please.
I don't think he's phyiscal enough to play the MLB. I think his tackles were blown up to many plays made 5 yards from the LOS. He wasn't knifing through the gaps. Heck, Lavonte David had more TFLs than Keuchly.

I think Keuchly could be solid, but I didn't like him as an ELITE LB coming out. If things turn around and what we saw IN PRESEASON translate to the regular season, I WILL EAT CROW.

I watched him absolutely get trounced by Doug Martin in both games against Tampa as well. Lets see him not get run over next time.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I love Kuechly but being DROTY in the NFL almost always goes to LB's, especially ILB's, because they can easily put up stats for all to see. However, they are often overrated and not as good as advertised in a passing league. Demeco Ryans was a good example of this.
Personally I believe Kuechly is a solid player because of his speed and a far better player than Ryans, just saying you have to be careful when judging ILB's, even if they win awards as a rookie.
I do believe Keuchly is above average in pass coverage and looking to improve that aspect.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:36 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
bucfan12

I don't think he's phyiscal enough to play the MLB. I think his tackles were blown up to many plays made 5 yards from the LOS. He wasn't knifing through the gaps. Heck, Lavonte David had more TFLs than Keuchly.

I think Keuchly could be solid, but I didn't like him as an ELITE LB coming out. If things turn around and what we saw IN PRESEASON translate to the regular season, I WILL EAT CROW.
I hope you know that a crow is one of the most intelligent animals on earth, however I am also pretty sure they taste like absolute ****.

And you can ask Bernard Pierce if Kuechly is a physical player or not. Not physical enough? That is a joke. He did not have a very solid front last year, which is something every single linebacker needs, now with Star and Short that will really improve that entire defense .
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Some of you are insane. He should have been a top ten pick. So should have
Wagner for that matter. Luke didn't go mainly because he was white and Bobby didn't go because of the non BCS conference school he went to IMO. Rolando McLame went in the top ten.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Some of you are insane. He should have been a top ten pick. So should have
Wagner for that matter. Luke didn't go mainly because he was white and Bobby didn't go because of the non BCS conference school he went to IMO. Rolando McLame went in the top ten.
Kuechly was a top ten pick.
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