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Old 08-31-2013, 05:08 PM    (permalink
Sportsfan486
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One game against a legit NFL prospect OT (where they won easily and really didn't require much effort) and Clowney is overrated.

I can count on one hand the number of DLine prospects coming out that didn't have some sort of concern about taking plays off or effort. Suh and Long are the two most prominent examples.

Remember when people suggested Clowney TAKE OFF THE YEAR so he wouldn't risk injury? Now he takes one game somewhat off and he's overrated.
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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Suh NEVER had a rep for taking off plays at Nebraska. Not saying he didn't, but that wasn't his scouting report.

Suh was 100 miles per hour at the snap.
If Clowney played at Suh's level of intensity on a per play basis in college, this wouldn't even be a discussion about Clowney.

Listen to what you just said, Clowney TOOK A GAME OFF that he was actually playing in! That's a crazy indictment for a guy considered to be the top overall prospect in the 2014 draft.

I don't think it's a fatal flaw for Clowney, but his effort and conditioning absolutely have to improve.

What's strange to me is when you watched Clowney as a top prep prospect coming out of HS, what jumped out on film and the reason some compared his game to Lawrence Taylor, was his effort and intensity.

This was a kid who would literally chase down a ballcarrier on a wide looping backside pursuit 50 yards downfield.

You don't like to see a bad habit like complacency already showing signs in a player who's considered the number one overall pick in the draft.
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:49 AM    (permalink
Abaddon
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Posts usually do look confusing when you cut off over half of the argument.
I quoted the only part that was relevant. You described all the qualities of a lazy person, then said the person you just described wasn't lazy. It boggles the mind that someone could type that without tripping the "I think I just contradicted myself" sensor in their brain.
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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Clowney doesn't bring it every play...
I didn't say that he did...
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:41 AM    (permalink
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He didn't go all out in a game that he had clearly won. It was hot, he needed food and was sick. Clowney is still the #1 pick so far and the next best DL since mMario Williams or Peppers. He is fine.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:20 AM    (permalink
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I've never put any stock into what Walter Football says, but...after today's game...I can't help but wonder.
Honestly, what they said wasn't exactly private knowledge. Both Clowney and his coaches have admitted he isn't in shape and played last year without being in shape. He takes plays off, too. He has his own set of rules at South Carolina (which is pretty typical for those kinds of players).

The concern is that Clowney gets overrated to the point that the better move is to trade back and pick up 2-3 first round talents (like the Vikings got in the last draft) instead of 1 guy. Imagine if you could get Bridgewater and CJ Mosley or something like that.

I doubt anyone is going to pay what the skins did to the rams, but I can imagine getting a really nice haul, which is a better deal than getting a guy who needs strong leadership and coaching to reach his potential. I guess a team shouldn't think like this, but if they don't trust their DL coaches enough then maybe it makes sense to go in another direction.
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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I quoted the only part that was relevant. You described all the qualities of a lazy person, then said the person you just described wasn't lazy. It boggles the mind that someone could type that without tripping the "I think I just contradicted myself" sensor in their brain.
If you can think in anything other than absolutes, there's not much I can say.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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So you want me to pretend that you didn't list all the qualities of a lazy person, then declare that the person you were describing wasn't lazy?

Your rationale lacks rationale.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, what they said wasn't exactly private knowledge. Both Clowney and his coaches have admitted he isn't in shape and played last year without being in shape. He takes plays off, too. He has his own set of rules at South Carolina (which is pretty typical for those kinds of players).

The concern is that Clowney gets overrated to the point that the better move is to trade back and pick up 2-3 first round talents (like the Vikings got in the last draft) instead of 1 guy. Imagine if you could get Bridgewater and CJ Mosley or something like that.

I doubt anyone is going to pay what the skins did to the rams, but I can imagine getting a really nice haul, which is a better deal than getting a guy who needs strong leadership and coaching to reach his potential. I guess a team shouldn't think like this, but if they don't trust their DL coaches enough then maybe it makes sense to go in another direction.
Only way to trade back and still get Bridgewater would be to trade from 1 to 2. So unless the Jets are sitting at 2 and aren't ready to admit that drafting Geno was a mistake, it's a pretty impossible scenario.

The idea of being able to grab Teddy and Sammy Watkins in the same draft, though...that does give a fella a draft boner.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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One game against a legit NFL prospect OT (where they won easily and really didn't require much effort) and Clowney is overrated.

I can count on one hand the number of DLine prospects coming out that didn't have some sort of concern about taking plays off or effort. Suh and Long are the two most prominent examples.

Remember when people suggested Clowney TAKE OFF THE YEAR so he wouldn't risk injury? Now he takes one game somewhat off and he's overrated.
Huh? Chris Long was never noted for taking plays off.

In fact, it was his hustle, attitude and work ethic that catapulted him to the top of the Rams board.

I know that I rip Billy Devaney every chance that I get, but he did get this one right.

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Old 09-01-2013, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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He is saying Long and Suh were a rarity as DL that actually gave full effort on every play. A lot of DL take plays off sometimes. They are big bodies and they don't rotate as much in college.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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This always happens. We'll have a camera on this guy for every single play and when he isn't going 100mph people will start to criticize him because you can't find anything else. Not worried about it at all. I saw this coming unless he got 22 sacks.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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I didn't get to see the game, but Clowney even looked dominant in the Georgia highlights.
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:53 AM    (permalink
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It's a myth that Clowney is the favorite to go #1. That's clearly Bridgewater or some other QB right now. You don't spend a #1 pick on a guy who can't stop a college offense from going up and down the field on his team.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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I didn't get to see the game, but Clowney even looked dominant in the Georgia highlights.
He was off and on the field so much, there is a reason to be concerned. He needs to show a few games in a row where he can stay on the field like he will have to if a team takes him #1.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:21 AM    (permalink
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While Clowney will undoubtedly be one of the top picks in the draft, I do have to say that I'm concerned about someone whose effort isn't consistently there, and who's already admitted to playing out of shape and being lazy with his conditioning. When you draft someone with a top pick, you're anticipating them developing into not only one of your most talented players, but also one of the cornerstones of your organization, someone who sets an example for other players to follow. You're not handing out all that guaranteed money to someone so they can coast on their natural talent, you want them to come in and work and maximize their productivity. Besides that, if this guy is basically already going through the motions during the job interview, what's he going to do once you deposit $12-15 million into his bank account?

Simply being an elite physical talent doesn't automatically make you a successful NFL player. Look at guys like JaMarcus Russell, Aaron Curry, and Vernon Gholston, who basically turned it on in college until they got their big payday, then checked out once they got paid. I'm not saying that Clowney is going to do the same thing, but if he does, it's not like we can say it came out of nowhere, and it's not like in spite of his questionable motor, he's been getting sacks this year. He'll certainly be among the top picks in the draft, but if I'm a team like Jacksonville or Oakland, the intermittent effort we've seen from Clowney thus far could potentially be the difference between drafting him and trading the pick away, or picking up someone like Teddy Bridgewater instead.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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He was off and on the field so much, there is a reason to be concerned. He needs to show a few games in a row where he can stay on the field like he will have to if a team takes him #1.
Clowney played 78% of the snaps last night, more than anyone on our defense, so this isn't remotely correct.

Overall a tough outing for him. Coaching is a big part to blame. We played a very vanilla scheme that Murray was able to pick apart with quick passes. And even though we have moved Clowney around every game previously, we stuck Clowney at the same spot most downs, which made avoiding him very easy for Georgia. That being said, while I'm sure many will probably just repeat SportsCenter and conclude that Clowney took another game off, he actually still managed a number of pressures and a sack. He was routinely beating his man, Georgia simply utilized an offense that nullified this fact.
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Cigaro
Clowney played 78% of the snaps last night, more than anyone on our defense, so this isn't remotely correct.

Overall a tough outing for him. Coaching is a big part to blame. We played a very vanilla scheme that Murray was able to pick apart with quick passes. And even though we have moved Clowney around ever game previously, we stuck Clowney at the same spot most downs, which made avoiding him very easy for Georgia. That being said, while I'm sure many will probably just repeat SportsCenter and conclude that Clowney took another game off, he actually still managed a number of pressures and a sack. He was routinely beating his man, Georgia simply utilized an offense that nullified this fact.
Yeah Clowney is getting a bad rap for little to no reason. The kid is still elite and a top 5 pick and still probable #1 pick but the expectations for him are to get 2 sacks a game or more it seems and that is just not going to happen.

As for SC, they were done when they got behind early and Georgia could run the ball on them. If SC got up early and made Georgia throw the ball and then they could rush the passer like Clemson did they might of had a chance.

I think that SC linebacker core is the main reason for their issues on defense, they got little to no talent there, Moore is a nice young player but they are missing DeVonte Holloman a lot and have little to no experience at that position. Much less no one close to Swearinger's ability at safety. They were hopeless trying to stop the run against Georgia. Then again Georgia did not look so great on defense but what else would one expect when 7 guys go to the NFL.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Watched him today. He's really unimpressive.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Watched him today. He's really unimpressive.
Not sure if serious. He basically made UCF have to play 10 on 11. Maybe I'm stupid but I thought he was the sole reason SC won.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Not sure if serious. He basically made UCF have to play 10 on 11. Maybe I'm stupid but I thought he was the sole reason SC won.
Nope, right on point. Clowney severely disrupted what UCF wanted to do.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Is Clowney already getting picked apart this bad? The guy is a elite player and prospect. I can't wait to see him slip for no good reason in the offseason.
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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I saw basically the same thing we've been seeing all year from him. Every offense has gone out of its way to limit his impact and because the rest of the defense has struggled to stop the run he hasn't had many long yardage situations to get after the QB.

He has been taking a lot of plays off this season though and it's frustrating to see. However when you see him go hard he still looks unblockable and has plays where he gets into the backfield as if there's nobody blocking him.

The one thing that surprised me today was watching UCF actually run at him and him getting pushed 5-10 yards back. That's something that shouldn't happen against UCF.

Concerns about Clowney are going to be overblown by people who only look at his stats and don't understand why he isn't getting 2 sacks every game. He's still an elite talent and if a coach can get him to go hard every down he could be an all-time great.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Clowney clearly sucks guys. He's no good. Total hype job and you best not draft him like that other lazy DL from last year Star Lotuleilei
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Good prospect, but the more you watch him the more you realize he's being overrated.

Still a top 5 talent in the 2014 draft, but he's nowhere near the level of player Nick Fairley or Ndamukong Suh were when they came out.

Too often Clowney looks like a great athlete playing football and not really a beast FOOTBALL player.

Being disruptive to me is not the same as being a dominant player.

Clowney is disruptive because he's big, fast and strong. But I don't see any exceptional playmaking ability.

He's one of those guys you can imagine will be a much better pro than collegian.

IMO Clowney is no better a pro prospect than Julius Peppers or Mario Williams.
I know, there's nothing wrong with that.
But the buzz around this guy before the season started was that Clowney was a significantly better pro prospect than those two.
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