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Old 09-03-2013, 03:41 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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What some people might think is kind of funny or ironic is that I really liked Cam Newton, but increasingly dislike Manziel. There's a lot of similarities between their styles and maturity questions, but where Newton seemed like a kid who just needed to get it together, Manziel seems to relish opportunities to be an asshole.
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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If Manziel wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth, I think most people would be more tolerant of his chippy attitude on the field and his baller lifestyle off it.

I still don't think he's done anything major except exhibit poor leadership qualities by bringing negative attention to himself.
Manziel's drinking issues are a bigger problem projecting him to the pros than breaking any NCAA rules or getting in verbal beefs with opponents.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:57 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe this guy has any support as a pro prospect.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
I can't believe this guy has any support as a pro prospect.
If anything this is his lowest moment. I'm sure as he continues to have a good season on the field, his hype machine will resurface.

Remember.... Michael Vick is still in the NFL. Different fart, same smell.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NFL.com View Post
Manziel was suspended for the first half of the opening victory over Rice, then was benched in the fourth quarter after he was called for an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Texas A&M coach Kevin Sumlin met Manziel when he was coming off the field after the penalty and had a few words for his quarterback. Manziel did not make eye contact and continued toward the bench. Numerous media folks went ballistic, saying Manziel disrespected his coach.

Sumlin, in turn, took a shot at those media folks Tuesday, saying, "He came off the field and I made two statements to him, neither one of which should he have responded to. They weren't questions. They were direct statements that I can't repeat right now. What amazes me is the perception that he ignored me. The worst thing that could have happened is for him to reply, based on what I told him."
Kind of amusing to hear the coach's take on what happened.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Kind of amusing to hear the coach's take on what happened.
But media perception is greater than the truth!
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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But media perception is greater than the truth!
The media's definitely stupid and generally vapid, but when you're aiming to be an NFL quarterback you surely don't want your coach getting pissed to the point of yanking you off the field and giving you unrepeatable instructions on the way to the bench.

Let's all remember Ryan Leaf was widely regarded to be just as talented as Peyton.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:20 AM    (permalink
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Let's all remember Ryan Leaf was widely regarded to be more talented than Peyton.
Fixed that one for you.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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The Ryan Leaf > Peyton Manning narrative is revisionist history (and something that I've actually rarely, if ever, heard from credible people). Polian plays to it because it makes him look smart, but what's new, he's an asshat. Why do people think that Polian took the Colts gig?

It makes for a good story, but very few people actually believed that at the time. It makes for such a good story that people forget how highly regarded Peyton Manning really was. I remember watching the 1996 NFL Draft, after Peyton's sophomore season, and Mel Kiper said that he thought Peyton could have been the #1 overall pick if he could have declared that year. I heard urban legends of Archie bringing Peyton to Saints TC (after he had retired, but while Peyton was still a teenager) and Peyton was supposedly the best QB in camp.

The Peyton Manning v. Ryan Leaf thing was nothing more than storytelling by media dolts who don't actually follow football all that closely.

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Well, the draft mags I read at the time made it clear that Leaf was the more physically talented player,(more mobie, bigger arm), but that Peyton was the more polished, experienced prospect.

Maybe they weren't that close as prospects behind the scenes among NFL GMs, however there was a public debate at least played by the media.

Remember there were voices at the time who thought Peyton was a choker(!) who couldn't win the big one and believed that tendency would follow him to the NFL.
It's not a coincidence IMO that Peyton's backup at Tennessee won a NC with virtually the same roster the year after Manning graduated.

Ryan Leaf was a dominant QB at Washington State the year before he entered the draft and took a bottom feeding program to the Rose Bowl.
There were several analysts who were very high on him, that's why I don't think there was this huge separation between Peyton and Ryan among many scouts.

Also scouting was different back in the mid-90s and character red flags were typically ignored if a player was talented.
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I'm kind of liking what i see there in coach Sumlin. He appears to be the type of guy that just might get the point across to Johnny that football is a team game. The response to what was reported about Manziel ignoring him when he came off the field late in saturday's game was a good one. To paraphase what he said, I said two things two him and they weren't questions, no need for a response. I'm liking that guy.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Another update on Manziel's draft prospects..

Quote:
NFL insider Mike Freeman is certain Texas A&M redshirt sophomore QB Johnny Manziel won't be on every team's draft board.
We previously wrote that Freeman tweeted his interaction with one NFL scout who called Manziel a "spoiled b----." Another apparently called him the "Terrell Owens of College Football." This recent uproar was triggered by Manziel's celebratory style in the second half of last Saturday's game, but he had the same mentality last year while big time media outlets fawned over him. He's not for everyone, but we are getting to the point of frustration when television commentators breakdown the quarterback's body language on the sideline.
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Hope he told the investigators that he at least knew the guy but didn't take money....

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Old 09-13-2013, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Another update on Manziel's draft prospects..
Lol @ the "Terrell Owens of college football." I'm sure the 49ers are so sorry that they took him in.

Talent outweighs everything people. Tyronn Mathieu's career is doing just fine and he is a way bigger moron than Johnny Manziel is.
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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I think Manziel will bust but this will just be part of the reason.
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Hey, he might. But the off the field stuff would just be the scapegoat. Not the reason. And no one would ever know because that's all we talk about.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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Hey, he might. But the off the field stuff would just be the scapegoat. Not the reason. And no one would ever know because that's all we talk about.
I've yet to see anything off the field stuff be that bad. He isn't hitting women or getting a DUI. He just happens to be a star quarterback and come from a family of means and acts like it so people cant stand it. When he is a pro quarterback it will be the same thing. Manning/Brady/RG3 are always doing commercials or attached to something.
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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He'll be taken around the same spot Russell Wilson was. I never thought Manziel was a first round prospect because he doesn't have ideal measurables for the position.
IMO Manziel's success at the next level mostly depends on who his HC and OC are in the pros and whether or not they believe in his game.

I love watching him play, but I also remember that Colt McCoy was a beast at Texas too.

We won't really know what kind of pro game Manziel has until he gets to the NFL.
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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He'll be taken around the same spot Russell Wilson was. I never thought Manziel was a first round prospect because he doesn't have ideal measurables for the position.
IMO Manziel's success at the next level mostly depends on who his HC and OC are in the pros and whether or not they believe in his game.

I love watching him play, but I also remember that Colt McCoy was a beast at Texas too.

We won't really know what kind of pro game Manziel has until he gets to the NFL.
McCoy was a different type of QB though. Manziel is so much more dynamic and has a ton more athleticism.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I can't help myself. I love Johnny Football!
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Forget the BS.

On the field...

Decision making and arm strength are legitimate question marks. Footwork is easily correctable.

I also wonder how his speed/elusiveness will translate to the pro game (he just seems SO much quicker than college defenders and as far as I know his athletic tests don't show an elite athlete).

But damn if he isn't an intriguing as HELL prospect. He's an odd bird and a very unique player. There's really never been anyone like him.

You'll hear a lot of "gimmick" talk and the armchair psychoanalysis from even our own Dr. Melfi's.

But some of the stuff he does on the field is incredible. His arm is plenty accurate and he throws with great touch. His ball seems to lack energy on a rope, but his deep ball is awesome (think Andy Dalton post-TCU).

Tebow didn't run a great 40 or test particularly well but he was still elusive in the NFL - he just had no accuracy. Manziel's throwing motion is way more effective than Tebow's.

He's some mix of Russell Wilson (size, hands, scrambling), Tim Tebow (elusiveness as a runner), Andy Dalton (arm strength questions or serious limitations?), and Doug Flutie (magic).

But really, he's just Johnny Football and the comparisons don't matter.

And I can't/won't even touch the off-field crap. But on the field... wow. He's an odd bird but you can't deny he can play this game at a very high level. Will it translate to the NFL? That's the $16 million question.

After last year I was pretty confident he'd be a high pick, but re-evaluating him as a whole and with his performance thus far this season, in addition to whatever the **** the offseason crap actually means, he's got flaws in his game. But damn he's a special ball player.
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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See Tim Tebow. Just because he';s a great college QB, doesn't mean it translates. Not saying Manzel has the same mechanics as Tebow, but Manzel still needs to mature. There are things he doesn't do well. Going through progressions and reading a defense. Those are things he must do to be successful at the next level.
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
See Tim Tebow. Just because he';s a great college QB, doesn't mean it translates. Not saying Manzel has the same mechanics as Tebow, but Manzel still needs to mature. There are things he doesn't do well. Going through progressions and reading a defense. Those are things he must do to be successful at the next level.
Oversimplified generalizations. No analysis at all. Besides the reading defenses part. And I see no evidence he struggles with that much at the college level.

The most important trait in a QB is accuracy. Tebow was never accurate and could not throw. This kid can. The (worthwhile) comparison stops and ends with his elusiveness in and out of the pocket as a runner. The one you're thinking of - great college players highly scrutinized because they aren't traditional pro style prospects + MEDIA EVERYWHERE means easy to hate - has really no place in this discussion.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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I love watching the guy play and don't care what people think he'll be in the NFL. Nobody really knows. QBs are hard to predict as it is, and Manziel is a unique prospect. I look forward to seeing him develop and hope he stays in college another season or two.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Must admit, Manziel is awesome.
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