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Old 09-15-2013, 02:51 AM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post


Ending there. Live, it really doesn't look like he got his knee down. I've seen pictures that contradict that, but he didn't make that an easy ruling on the officials by placing the ball. Just...strange. I didn't know you could be unclear about taking a knee, but Stave found a way.
i mean thats fine if the refs didnt rule it as him being down. if they didnt think he went down it shouldve been a fumble and recovery to ASU which wouldve stopped the clock and then been overturned on replay
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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There is no possible explanation they could have given that wouldn't have make themselves look like absolute morons, so I guess I understand why they didn't.

If they were calling him down, why the **** did it take 13 seconds to reset the ball?

If they were somehow calling it a fumble, why the **** did you not switch possession and stop the clock?
Exactly this. It's why I called them cowardly. Like I said, I know they are humans and make mistakes, but you have to own up to it.

I know you can't change the result of the game, but it's frustrating.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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Refs ****** that up so bad. There was plenty of time to get it spotted after the initial confusion and they just screwed up. It was dumb to kneel like that but they blew it dead and dragged their feet til time ran out.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:56 AM    (permalink
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And confusion is in no way an excuse. There are less than 20 seconds left and the team is trying to win the game on the final plays. There needs to be some goddamn urgency there, yet the refs are taking their sweet old time.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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i mean thats fine if the refs didnt rule it as him being down. if they didnt think he went down it shouldve been a fumble and recovery to ASU which wouldve stopped the clock and then been overturned on replay
He clearly was down from the pictures as well. The broadcast camera angle is unclear because of the way he bumps into his lineman, but the referee directly behind it should have had a clear shot at it and made the ruling right away.

I think the issue may have been that his knee was down very briefly and wasn't visible the the rest of the officials, so when he went to place the ball(weird thing to do anyway) it looked like he may have just been going full ******. The referee looks like he just might not have made the call clearly and quickly the way he needed to to the rest of the officials. It shouldn't take all that time to clear it up.

Meanwhile, you've got ASU piling up on the ball(rightfully so too) because the refs can't function quick enough. Just a weird, weird ending.

EDIT:

You guys were right earlier. Whistle blew. I think the officials ignored it for some reason or something, but at that point onward it's a delay of game if ASU is piled on.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:11 AM    (permalink
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He clearly was down from the pictures as well. The broadcast camera angle is unclear because of the way he bumps into his lineman, but the referee directly behind it should have had a clear shot at it and made the ruling right away.

I think the issue may have been that his knee was down very briefly and wasn't visible the the rest of the officials, so when he went to place the ball(weird thing to do anyway) it looked like he may have just been going full ******. The referee looks like he just might not have made the call clearly and quickly the way he needed to to the rest of the officials. It shouldn't take all that time to clear it up.

Meanwhile, you've got ASU piling up on the ball(rightfully so too) because the refs can't function quick enough. Just a weird, weird ending.
Nope. The whistle clearly blew. The play is dead right there. Everyone stopped, and then a second or two later a couple ASU players jump on the ball and sit on it making it harder for the refs to reset anything. Should have been a delay of game from that too, but even still the could have set it after that with plenty of time, so not worth being picky about that. At first I thought it was maybe 25% on Wisconsin, 10% on ASU, and 65% on the refs. After reviewing everything, It was 100% on the refs. They have no excuse at all for ******* it up that badly.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:15 AM    (permalink
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Nope. The whistle clearly blew. The play is dead right there. Everyone stopped, and then a second or two later a couple ASU players jump on the ball and sit on it making it harder for the refs to reset anything. Should have been a delay of game from that too, but even still the could have set it after that with plenty of time, so not worth being picky about that. At first I thought it was maybe 25% on Wisconsin, 10% on ASU, and 65% on the refs. After reviewing everything, It was 100% on the refs. They have no excuse at all for ******* it up that badly.
Edited my post already, but I watched it again with sound this time and you're absolutely right. Once the whistle blows(and it had blown), anything ASU does with the ball is a delay of game. Stave just laying the ball on the ground is still strange, but the whistle had blown. Everyone just decided to ignore it for some reason. The officials included. They really looked like they may have thought it was a live ball for a few seconds in spite of the call being made already.

...this is a few plays after awarding Duckworth 20 bonus yards just because too. That's the one thing you can do to maybe rationalize this as sort of a real win if you're ASU....but still. Hackjob overall. Someone needs to come down on these guys.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:28 AM    (permalink
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The officials lost track and lost control of the game and it cost Wisconsin the game. Just an out right failure by the refs.
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:58 AM    (permalink
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Just because the clock hit 0 doesn't mean the refs couldn't fix their mistake. There was a defensive penalty from ASU covering a dead ball, so they could give Wisconsin a free, untimed play. Game can't end on a defensive penalty, son. Did the refs not huddle and try to sort things? Were they Pac 12 refs?
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Old 09-15-2013, 05:45 AM    (permalink
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Just because the clock hit 0 doesn't mean the refs couldn't fix their mistake. There was a defensive penalty from ASU covering a dead ball, so they could give Wisconsin a free, untimed play. Game can't end on a defensive penalty, son. Did the refs not huddle and try to sort things? Were they Pac 12 refs?
They were in fact, PAC 12 refs. Yes, they could have done as you suggested, but instead they ran off the field without explaining anything.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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I thought the away team has the refs from their conference and the replay crew is from the home team's conference.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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I thought the away team has the refs from their conference and the replay crew is from the home team's conference.
I thought that too, but it must have changed. the refs in UCF-PSU were B1G refs so they must have change that rule.

Also, how in the world was Texas favored against Ole Miss?
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Texas has given up 926 yards rushing in its first three games. In 2009, they gave up 818 rushing yards in the 13 games prior to the National Championship game.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Texas has given up 926 yards rushing in its first three games. In 2009, they gave up 818 rushing yards in the 13 games prior to the National Championship game.
On a similar note how much real estate has Nebraska given up in it's last few games dating back to last year.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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meh. wisconsin's qb is an idiot; never leave something like that to chance. take the knee. hand the ball to the ref. spike the ball. there's no reason you should ever give the refs an opportunity to screw you.
1. Take the knee...
---- He did!

2. Hand the ball to the ref...
---- Why? It would take the ref (if they did their job) longer to spot the ball had he handed it to them. He placed it on the field so it would require no time to set the ball.

3. Spike the ball...
---- He wanted to center it up for the kick. Spiking the ball would've kept it on the far hash.


He did it fine. I've seen plenty of QBs scramble for a second before taking a knee. Sure, there was confusion, but the ref setting the ball was telling the Wisconsin O-Line to wait.

Then he ran off the field.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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And Bret Bielema's wife is rubbing it in.

Ugh!

There is noone who deserved to be screwed by karma more than Todd Graham.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Every Badger is aware of the clock...

The ref continues to tell them to wait.

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Old 09-15-2013, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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seriously?
Yes, seriously. You're saying he should do something that he did.

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you know, except that doing so let ASU dive on it, and led to the refs screwing up the spot. so it was an idiotic decision based on exactly what actually happened, not in the little hypothetical world of "the universe works perfectly and no one ever screws up".
Yes, it lead to what should've been a penalty on the defense, and what should've been a referee stoppage due to their incompetence. Two things that aren't the fault of Wisconsin.

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are you drunk? take the knee. spike the ball to stop the clock and give your kicking team time to line up. what does this have to do with having the ball on the hash?
Resort to insults?

He can't take a knee and then spike it. They didn't have enough time. The refs didn't allow them the time to even take a knee. What does it have to do with the hash? The ball was on the far hash. If they did as you say, they kick from the far hash. If the refs do their jobs, they kick from the center of the field.

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pretty sure this was clearly established. why is it worth mentioning again?
Because you continue to find ways to blame Wisconsin, when clearly it was the referees who are incompetent, not Stave.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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If I'm the coach I'm spiking it and sending out the field goal team. I'm not risking a fumble, a penalty runoff or a referee screwup. If they have a timeout then run your play but if you can't kick it from that initial spot you deserve to lose.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Wrong thread

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Old 09-15-2013, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Sorry wrong thread
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Old 09-15-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
badgerbacker
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In the Badgers situation, hindsight is 20/20. You're forgetting that the UW kicker is terrible, so they wanted to give him every advantage they could.

Let's say the odds of him making the original kick from the hash mark is 50% (which might be generous). Even if his chances only increase to 60% in the center of the field I'd make the same move, because I think it's safe to say the chances of "a screw up" when taking a knee in the center of the field and then spiking is less than 10%.

A little stats breakdown for you guys so get ready for some number crunching:

Probability of success at hash mark = 50% (probability of making kick)
Probability of success by moving = 90% (probability of moving the spot) * 60% (probability of making kick from center) = 0.9*0.6= 54%

I didn't even take into account that ASU would have a chance to return the kick if they made the field goal from the original spot with time left, but I think statistically the coaches made the right choice.

You can call Stave an idiot for placing the ball down if you want, but he didn't do anything wrong. Even if he didn't take a knee (WHICH HE DID), a player is down if the ball touches the ground when he possesses it.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:26 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
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DG slacking on the week 4 gameday thread....probably because there are not many good games this week.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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A lot of victim blaming on Wisconsin right now. I'm glad both conferences admit it was a mistake.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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No J.W Walsh this week, but Chuckie Keeton plays USC. Can't wait to see that one
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