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Old 09-16-2013, 07:52 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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As usual, this is an over reaction. The season isn't over if you go 0-3. Especially when you consider that our division is going to more than likely be terrible this year.

Carolina will be a tough game. They're coming off two tough losses and will probably be feeling like they have to win too.
No team has ever made the playoffs after going 0-3. The season is essentially over at that point.

Doesn't matter if your division sucks, going down that deep of a hole is difficult to overcome.

Especially considering the fact that we're typically a 1st half of the season team.

Do I expect us to go 0-3? No. I think we turn this around and I think we're a legit contender this year once the pieces fall into place. All I'm saying is, if we do go 0-3 which essentially kills your season, I rather be really bad than mediocre.

At that point you're not making the playoffs anyway, I rather get the better draft pick.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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If we do go 0-3, which essentially means you're not making the playoffs, I'm all aboard the tank for Clowney wagon.

Healthy JPP and Clowney is just unfair. It will never happen, but I'm just saying. I hate NFL purgatory, I rather be either really good or really bad. 8-8 sucks.
I agree. If we are going to suck, let's suck bigtime. It will only be for a year I would imagine anyways. If we don't get to at least 4-4 before our bye, let's tank, Fire Fewell, get a good DC, cut some of our overpaid veterans, reload in FA and the draft and go on a couple of final runs with Eli before he gets too old. I will be pissed if we spend 3-5 years now winning between 7-10 games and missing the playoffs most of the time. We can be a great football team with minor adjustments. The pieces are there, we just need to cut the dead weight and get to it!
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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The biggest play in that game was the fumble we didn't recover. Could that have been an incomplete pass? Peyton got back to the line very quickly.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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No team has ever made the playoffs after going 0-3. The season is essentially over at that point.

Doesn't matter if your division sucks, going down that deep of a hole is difficult to overcome.

Especially considering the fact that we're typically a 1st half of the season team.

Do I expect us to go 0-3? No. I think we turn this around and I think we're a legit contender this year once the pieces fall into place. All I'm saying is, if we do go 0-3 which essentially kills your season, I rather be really bad than mediocre.

At that point you're not making the playoffs anyway, I rather get the better draft pick.
There are a lot of teams that have come close to making the playoffs after a terrible start. I think it's possible to do, not likely, but possible. Especially in an awful division.

And being 8-8 in football isn't that bad. I understand it's better to be really bad or really good, but in football it's not purgatory. In basketball it is a death sentence because mid-first round picks are usually not going to amount to anything but in football you can still get a star player and improve your team in the middle of the round.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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No team has ever made the playoffs after going 0-3. The season is essentially over at that point.

Doesn't matter if your division sucks, going down that deep of a hole is difficult to overcome.

Especially considering the fact that we're typically a 1st half of the season team.

Do I expect us to go 0-3? No. I think we turn this around and I think we're a legit contender this year once the pieces fall into place. All I'm saying is, if we do go 0-3 which essentially kills your season, I rather be really bad than mediocre.

At that point you're not making the playoffs anyway, I rather get the better draft pick.
And once upon a time no team had ever won the Super Bowl as a wildcard that had to go on the road three straight weeks just to make the big game. No one had ever one the Super Bowl with a bottom 2 running game and defense. Our division sucks. After we win next week we may well be tied for the division lead.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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BBd I am so mad right now you have no idea. The coverage guys did fine but zero pass rush is killing us. No front 4 pressure or.blitzes that are getting home. And the hallmark of Fewell defense , which is turnovers, isn't happening.

Offensively, we are a god awful mess. And I used to like the system with my issue being the choice and option routes but man oh man, this system has zero margin for error. Slightest miscommunication ends up in a bloody int. Add bad luck and other skill player mistakes and this offense is a one trick phoney! Its the deep ball or bust with this team. We are going to have to have balance so stop forcing it and putting this offense in 3rd and long situations because the run is getting stopped 3 yards behind the LOS.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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I am really annoyed we didn't give wilson more touches, why not let him regain his confidence? We weren't going to win
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I'll start to panic if we lose to Carolina. I still think we turn this around. Here is where that classic 6 game winning streak starts. It's the Giant way.

But we are in must in territory this week. There's no way you can get around that. This week is a must win game.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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I'll start to panic if we lose to Carolina. I still think we turn this around. Here is where that classic 6 game winning streak starts. It's the Giant way.

But we are in must in territory this week. There's no way you can get around that. This week is a must win game.
Oh I agree. I saw these problems last season. Then during the pre season with this offense. Now we are on game 3 and our issues offensively have still stuck with us like some rancid STD. We stink in the red zone. Our miscommunications have still plagued us to the effect of Eli leading the league in Ints, his fault or not. Running game is gone with the wind, yet we still waste time trying even when we are getting owned 3 yards in the backfield. It seemed to be coming from Snee's side too. I want to say A gap where Dallas was hitting.

Defensively, we put all our eggs in the pass rush basket like always and this time nothing. Everyone getting stone walled. Blitzes are rare and when we do they obviously don't get home. Ironically enough, our coverage and secondary has been playing well.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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We miss Stevie Brown from last year. The secondary has been decent at not giving up the long play but we haven't forced a turnover to get off the field. We needed one badly yesterday.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Oh I agree. I saw these problems last season. Then during the pre season with this offense. Now we are on game 3 and our issues offensively have still stuck with us like some rancid STD. We stink in the red zone. Our miscommunications have still plagued us to the effect of Eli leading the league in Ints, his fault or not. Running game is gone with the wind, yet we still waste time trying even when we are getting owned 3 yards in the backfield. It seemed to be coming from Snee's side too. I want to say A gap where Dallas was hitting.

Defensively, we put all our eggs in the pass rush basket like always and this time nothing. Everyone getting stone walled. Blitzes are rare and when we do they obviously don't get home. Ironically enough, our coverage and secondary has been playing well.
The dirty truth is we need to rebuild. We need 3 new interior OLmen, possibly a RB if Wilson doesn't pan out, and a new front 7 on defense (minus JPP, Moore, and some carryovers).

We're doing some bandaid jobs to stay competitive while we rebuild but it's just time for a youth movement.

I still think this team is very talented, and will make the necessary corrections, but you have to be patient. Look the pass rush will improve. JPP will slowly get back up to speed (give him another month), Moore will get up to speed and provide some edge pressure and we'll eventually get our pass rush going.

That's really the only issue on defense. And once we get it going our defense can be pretty good as long as we stay healthy.

Offensively, we just have to give up on the 2 TE formation and the run game. Just let it go. 3 wide spread offense all day and fling it all over the field. Stop trying to force a style of offense on personnel that's not built to play it.

Stop being a dinosaur Coughlin. Balance is overrated.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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The dirty truth is we need to rebuild. We need 3 new interior OLmen, possibly a RB if Wilson doesn't pan out, and a new front 7 on defense (minus JPP, Moore, and some carryovers).

We're doing some bandaid jobs to stay competitive while we rebuild but it's just time for a youth movement.

I still think this team is very talented, and will make the necessary corrections, but you have to be patient. Look the pass rush will improve. JPP will slowly get back up to speed (give him another month), Moore will get up to speed and provide some edge pressure and we'll eventually get our pass rush going.

That's really the only issue on defense. And once we get it going our defense can be pretty good as long as we stay healthy.

Offensively, we just have to give up on the 2 TE formation and the run game. Just let it go. 3 wide spread offense all day and fling it all over the field. Stop trying to force a style of offense on personnel that's not built to play it.

Stop being a dinosaur Coughlin. Balance is overrated.

I agree with you. I honestly think of our 2 systems on both sides of the ball changed, we can be more productive. Right now I believe now both systems are just inefficient. I know you said stuff won't change, and sadly, you're right. But if we did change both systems I believe we can be more productive. Finally our offense is stinking at a level that's rivaling our defense.

This whole obsession of balance annoys me. We pass and move the ball 20 yard line to 20 yard line. Once we enter the red zone, we have this fetish to try to run the ball. We can't run the ball so stop trying in the red zone out of all places. I am tired of FGs. It's so frustrating.

I like Coughlin, but his loyalty to his coordinators is old school, and problematic. No trick plays no creativity. It's almost as if we say this: We have plan A and B. After that we have nothing. We won't alter anything or create something to try to win. If you stop plan A and B. Then you beat us.

No end arounds or reverses we used to run. No fake punts or FGs. No flea flickers. Nothing. If the game isn't going our way, it's almost like we will rather die and lose then try something to stimulate some life in the team.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm trying to be careful of blaming the systems and being the systemzzz guy when the players are at fault for many things. Let's face it, I don't care what system you run, if you can't run the ball or pass protect bc of your OL, the system will have its warts.

Same with defense, if you can't rush the passer your system won't mean much. It's not like the secondary is playing poorly. The coverage is there. The run D for the most part is there. It's just the pass rush. You can't really fix that, players just have to get better.

Especially when the core issue with our pass rush problems is injuries/lack of talent.

Players just have to play better. It's not like this is a wartless team that's being held back by scheme. The players have to play better. There are a lot of mistakes made by players that have nothing to do with scheme.

Correct that and the wins will come.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Eli is on pace for 6496 yds, 40 Tds, 56 Ints if this keeps happening, lol. That would be a funny stat line. I say for the offense, just start small next week. No big bombs down the field unless you're CERTAIN it will work, no idiotic plays, just safe and sound football without turnovers.

If we can manage that, we will beat Carolina. They're not that good, but they have a good defensive front 7 that can hurt you if you go with long developing pass plays and choice routes that confuses our recievers more than their defenders.

As for our defense, I actually like the way they play a lot in the back 7. Pass rush is non-existent, but hopefully it will get better with Moore and JPP fully back. So don't change anything major there, and just hope and pray for more help from Eli and the offense.

We will be a defense who regularly gives up between 21-28 points, and that's ok, as long as we score minimum that much every game as well. We have the potential, but we need to play up to it.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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The past 2 weeks the offense has been the reason why we lost our games. I don't blame the defense. The defense has exceeded my expectations already and they still haven't reached their potential.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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The past 2 weeks the offense has been the reason why we lost our games. I don't blame the defense. The defense has exceeded my expectations already and they still haven't reached their potential.
This. I just love Terrell Thomas. He's such a good player, even after the injuries. He would have been special without them, but he's played really good these first two weeks! I almost caught myself praying to some higher power that the injury wasn't knee-related when he hit the turf and stayed down for a while yesterday. He's my favorite Giant defender as it stands now.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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This. I just love Terrell Thomas. He's such a good player, even after the injuries. He would have been special without them, but he's played really good these first two weeks! I almost caught myself praying to some higher power that the injury wasn't knee-related when he hit the turf and stayed down for a while yesterday. He's my favorite Giant defender as it stands now.
Don't jinx it!

He's seriously one of my favorites. I want him to be a contributor on a SB winning team to complete the story.

He's such a great tackler, he can still cover very well, I really hope that knee holds up.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Don't jinx it!

He's seriously one of my favorites. I want him to be a contributor on a SB winning team to complete the story.

He's such a great tackler, he can still cover very well, I really hope that knee holds up.
*knocks on wood and spits over shoulder*
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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We need more rutgers players.

/problemsolved
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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Do I expect us to go 0-3? No. I think we turn this around and I think we're a legit contender this year once the pieces fall into place. All I'm saying is, if we do go 0-3 which essentially kills your season, I rather be really bad than mediocre.

At that point you're not making the playoffs anyway, I rather get the better draft pick.
I think we can turn it around. Our defense has flashed but we need to get a more effective pass rush.

The other factor is that we have Snee, Baas, Hynoski and JPP working their way back. They are imriving but are rusty, which is not suprising considering they each missed most of the offseason reps. Beatty and Pugh have looked decent and I like how our secondary and DTs have performed.

Our WRs have all dropped too many balls as well.

Alot of this is correctable, this team does have plenty of fight and work ethic.

It wasn't that long ago that Coughlin's 2007 team was in a similar situation, so we have proven that it is possible to win it all from here. But we need to play better.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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As of now, the drops don't bother me. It's getting on the same page and making sure that the ball doesn't go one way and the WR goes another way. That's a big issue right now. At least with a drop I know they are on the same page and it's a focus issue.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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As of now, the drops don't bother me. It's getting on the same page and making sure that the ball doesn't go one way and the WR goes another way. That's a big issue right now. At least with a drop I know they are on the same page and it's a focus issue.
Agreed with this. Seeing Nicks run to the left while Eli was throwing to the back corner right before half killed me. Totally changes the game if we get a TD there.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Agreed with this. Seeing Nicks run to the left while Eli was throwing to the back corner right before half killed me. Totally changes the game if we get a TD there.
Eli said that was actually a badly thrown "throw away" ball. Sounds like he was trying to throw it out the back of the end zone. Not sure if that was just him protecting Nicks or not.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Eli said that was actually a badly thrown "throw away" ball. Sounds like he was trying to throw it out the back of the end zone. Not sure if that was just him protecting Nicks or not.
No way. Sounds like an excuse to me.
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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No way. Sounds like an excuse to me.
Maybe. He said it with Francessa.
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