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Old 09-18-2013, 08:28 PM    (permalink
Cudders
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There are two schools of thought here.

School A: The Browns traded a struggling running back for a first-round pick. Thatís good value for an underperforming asset and more ammunition that can be used to target a franchise quarterback.

School B: The Browns traded a former first-round pick and accepted the diminishing return to do it. Thatís tough to stomach for a team thatís bereft of offensive talent to begin with.

Iím a believer of School B.

First and foremost, I donít know where the idea that Trent Richardson was busting comes from. Weíre two games into the seasons. Was his YPC low? Yeah, it was. But the offensive line has been putrid. Oneil Cousins had one of the absolute worst games Iíve ever seen from a starting NFL lineman against the Dolphins. Thatís his right guard. Mitchell Schwartz is entering his second season and heís more finesse than power. And heís overcompensating for Cousins. Thatís his right tackle. John Greco is a classic shield blocker. Thatís his left guard. Whereís the push coming from?

Now, the one thing that was overlooked during the draft process was Richardsonís vision. There are some holes in it. There are times he doesnít press the hole quite hard enough and ease the burden on the blocking scheme. Alabamaís monstrous offensive line camouflaged that in college. Natural talent masked that in high school.

But Richardson canít do much when his right guard is blown into the backfield on a consistent basis. In Week 1, Richardson averaged the most YAC of all NFL runners. The core attributes are still there. Heís still a talented running back. Sure, the pendulum has swung in the passing gameís favor and respectable running games can be manufactured, but thereís still something to be said for having a runner thatís capable of performing at an ďabove replacementĒ level. It does things for an offense. Even more so for an offense that doesnít have a solidified quarterback position. Which includes the Browns.

Evaluating Richardson still needs to be done with a bit of projection. The Browns donít have a finalized roster. The offensive situation in particular is quite fluid. So it becomes a question of whether Trent Richardson fits into the long-term vision. The misjudged vision tempers some expectation. But it doesnít ruin the entire package. It necessitates some retooling. A source from the Browns said that Trent Richardson doesnít fit Chudís offense. Thatís pure ********. Heís a grinder, a solid receiver out of the backfield, and a developing pass protector. Those three things fit into all NFL offenses. To me, two factors linger. Did the injuries scare management? Or was Trent becoming a malcontent in the locker room? If itís the first, well, all right. Whatever. If itís the second, then ship him out. No questions asked.

Other than that, I donít like it. You want to know the reason that bad teams remain bad in the NFL? Because losing breeds losing. It creates a toxic culture. The Browns have made a transition toward homegrown talent. A good amount of that talent that figures to be there for the foreseeable future. Youíre a brand new staff. The locker room was optimistic. It believed that things could be changing. Yet, on the eve of Week 3, a foundational piece of the offense was just traded to Indianapolis. You donít have to be a Mensa member to read between those lines. Youíve thrown in the towel on the season. If that didnít elude people in this thread, it wonít elude people in that locker room. To them, itís more of the same ****. Itís just a different season.

Alex Mack has been a professional since being drafted. He has performed well and been a Pro Bowl-caliber pivot. Heís an upcoming free agent that neglected to hold contract extension talks during the regular season.

What kind of message did you send today?
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Cleveland took one look at Jacksonville and said "If we want the #1 pick, we have to get even worse. Let's start Hoyer and trade Richardson." Look for Jacksonville to respond by picking up Tebow. It's on, now.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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I don't like the move for the colts and am confused why the browns would do it. The browns season is already done especially if they are starting Brian Hoyer for any extended period of time. Basically looking at a top 5 pick even if they had trent richardson. At that point they go QB and the potential QB crops looks pretty good this year. Whoever they draft would have a chance to have t-rich, jordan cameron, josh gordon, a solid offensive line and a pretty good defense. If they believe in t-rich why give up? He would be great for a young QB(a real young qb one that isn't 30) and won't really win games by himself.

On the flipside for the colts we just lost Donald Thomas to IR and Irsay has ranted about how we need to protect Luck on twitter. We already have Bradshaw and a combo of brown and whoever else I feel is adequate enough to get by. I just feel the value isn't there. Runningbacks are a dime a dozen and T-rich didn't exactly light up the world last year and is only averaging 3.5 yards per carry this year. We are in desperate need of a passrusher and someone to protect Luck.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm with the group that thinks this isn't such a bad trade for
Cleveland. It's a different NFL than a lot of us grew up with. Stud RBs aren't the name of the game anymore. TRich has talent, I agree, but I'm not quite as sold on him as some of you are. I'm interested to see how this plays out, for sure. Could be alot of fun in Indy.

I'm not gonna kill the Browns for making the trade. Get a QB to go along with Gordon and Cameron. Worry about the RB spot later. With a cheaper guy as well. Don't tie up a lot of money in a RB. I'm not sure what TRich is scheduled to make with the rest of his contract, though.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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This could be false.
Bradshaw is better when healthy, no doubt about it.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Willis McGahee expected to take his physical in the Browns' facility tomorrow. Looks like he will be their new back.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Eh. People are saying richardson hasn't looked great, but on a semi decent team, he can easily eclipse 1000+ yards and 10+ touchdowns, with good receiving ability, and the ability to grind out tough yards and series.

And he still has a lot of upside.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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This sucks for my fantasy team. I have held onto McGahee and just dropped him this morning with no one signing him so far.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Nobody should be killing the Browns for this. Everyone should be killing the Colts.

They just traded a bunch of picks (including a first rounder) for Cedric Benson. If they wanted a deeper backfield, they should have just signed McGahee themselves.

The Browns just made a genius move as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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wow thats a shocker there....That offense is loaded, too bad the oline sucks. Are the Browns really giving up already?
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Eh. People are saying richardson hasn't looked great, but on a semi decent team, he can easily eclipse 1000+ yards and 10+ touchdowns, with good receiving ability, and the ability to grind out tough yards and series.

And he still has a lot of upside.
he was 50 rushing yards shy of doing exactly that.
and his YPC was about the same as LaDainian Tomlinson in his rookie season (and very similar receiving stats, Tomlinson just had 60 more carries his rookie year)
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm not a huge Richardson fan, but I could see him potentially having a Marshawn Lynch kind of career path. Talented but disappointing early in his career and then having more success after joining a good team and growing up a little.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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What's so big about this is that we don't often see teams deal a top 3 pick so SOON, but I do get it from Cleveland's end

they gotta get their QB situation solved first and foremost. Richardson wasn't gonna be able to maximize his ability on that team and they'd just be wasting his prime years on 5-6 win teams. They were gonna be bad with or without him. In Indy, they got their QB in place so now they can fill the spots around him with good talent and let them go to work.

the thing that doesn't make sense though is that we are hearing that he wasn't a good fit for Chud's system and that the FO isn't that high on him. Ok, that's fine, but why didn't they deal him in the offseason then? Why even go into the season with him if they didn't like him to begin with. That's what I don't get. Could have made his name available in the offseason, get a market going for him and what not. They just sort of did this deal out of the blue. If you are going to deal your most marketable player, you gotta sell that **** to the rest of the league, not just do it quietly. I'm not sure if they could have gotten more back, but you never know...
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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does anyone remember what the Browns traded up for when they drafted Richardson in the 1st place?

And all they got was one 1st round pick? and it's not even a bad teams 1st round pick. Unreal
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Who needs progression?
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Good trade for the colts, they would be picking between 15-25ish anyway and with that pick they get the best rb prospect I seem in awhile, and not terrible move by the browns,ok trade for them but you had to pick who you had to pick at #3 since both qb were gone.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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does anyone remember what the Browns traded up for when they drafted Richardson in the 1st place?

And all they got was one 1st round pick? and it's not even a bad teams 1st round pick. Unreal
It's a running back. They ripped the Colts off bad. It doesn't matter what they paid for him in the past; it's a sunk cost. Nothing was going to recoup that much value for them.

You have to ignore the past and look at the present/future. Even if Richardson increases his YPC by a full yard, the Colts still overpaid for him. Meanwhile, does anyone really think that Willis McGahee...acquired at the low, low cost of zero picks...is going to produce less than 3.6 ypc in Cleveland? Of course not. He'll probably better that mark.

Cleveland wins this trade. Their running game just got better and they gained picks to trade in the next draft.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Dwayne Allen and T.Y. Hilton were both really nice recent pickups. There are plenty of worse FOs in the league.
I've seen too many rookies and 2nd year guys play well just to flame out later. I'll hold judgement on these two.

In the meantime, the Colts spent a first round pick on a RB thats struggled so far. Time will tell, and it's largely based on what the Browns do with the pick.

If I were the Browns, I'd bring Beanie Wells in for a workout and see how the knee is. If it seems decent you could do worse.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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lol

tank the season after 2 games
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Dwayne Allen and T.Y. Hilton were both really nice recent pickups. There are plenty of worse FOs in the league.
Their two good moves. Oh yes, how could I forget about their two good moves.

So, are Erik Walden and Vontae Davis starting for them, or have they been cut or benched yet?
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
DcmRulz
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It does depend on what cleveland does with that pick. If they draft a bust, Colts pretty much win the trade by default (or if Richardson improves their rushing game enough that Luck gets more time to pick apart defenses, or if they make the playoffs out of this)
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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It's a running back. They ripped the Colts off bad. It doesn't matter what they paid for him in the past; it's a sunk cost. Nothing was going to recoup that much value for them.

You have to ignore the past and look at the present/future. Even if Richardson increases his YPC by a full yard, the Colts still overpaid for him. Meanwhile, does anyone really think that Willis McGahee...acquired at the low, low cost of zero picks...is going to produce less than 3.6 ypc in Cleveland? Of course not. He'll probably better that mark.

Cleveland wins this trade. Their running game just got better and they gained picks to trade in the next draft.
This. I can see the potential benefit for us but our O-line is so bad and our defense can not create a consistent pass rush. They are so headstrong on creating a power run game and not letting Luck throw the ball.
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Cudders is absolutely correct (as usual) about the vision problems with Richardson. You can even see it in his Alabama days if you go back and rewatch the games.

Last edited by WCH : 09-18-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Cudders

/thread
There should a meme for this by now.
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