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Old 09-18-2013, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Put all Browns fans on suicide watch...

And put us Vikings fans on suicide watch if we lose to the Browns this weekend...
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Richardson is incredibly overrated. I saw him getting talked about HIGH in fantasy, and I was like "WHY?"
Is he a decent back? Yeah.
I guess I sort of view it as Knowshon Moreno
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BloodBrother View Post
What's so big about this is that we don't often see teams deal a top 3 pick so SOON, but I do get it from Cleveland's end

they gotta get their QB situation solved first and foremost. Richardson wasn't gonna be able to maximize his ability on that team and they'd just be wasting his prime years on 5-6 win teams. They were gonna be bad with or without him. In Indy, they got their QB in place so now they can fill the spots around him with good talent and let them go to work.

the thing that doesn't make sense though is that we are hearing that he wasn't a good fit for Chud's system and that the FO isn't that high on him. Ok, that's fine, but why didn't they deal him in the offseason then? Why even go into the season with him if they didn't like him to begin with. That's what I don't get. Could have made his name available in the offseason, get a market going for him and what not. They just sort of did this deal out of the blue. If you are going to deal your most marketable player, you gotta sell that **** to the rest of the league, not just do it quietly. I'm not sure if they could have gotten more back, but you never know...
I think they did it because this years QB class was the worst it has ever been in the history of the NFL draft. 2014 has some talent if everyone comes out. A middle/low Indy pick may help them move up to get Teddy if they don't end up getting that pick themselves. Maybe they could trade everyone else and try to a make a move for the #2 pick and end up with Teddy and Clowney. haha
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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I think they did it because this years QB class was the worst it has ever been in the history of the NFL draft. 2014 has some talent if everyone comes out. A middle/low Indy pick may help them move up to get Teddy if they don't end up getting that pick themselves. Maybe they could trade everyone else and try to a make a move for the #2 pick and end up with Teddy and Clowney. haha
I don't see any team losing more than the Jaguars this year, so yeah. The Browns will not be picking #1.

Although some teams are acting like "Who wants to suck more?" this year so far...
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Not this year. Allen's done for the year.
What? Did that just happen? I missed that. Bummer for him and the Colts.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Richardson is incredibly overrated. I saw him getting talked about HIGH in fantasy, and I was like "WHY?"
Is he a decent back? Yeah.
I guess I sort of view it as Knowshon Moreno
We judge players on fantasy football numbers now?

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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It's a smart trade for Cleveland. Richardson hasn't been very impressive and the Browns are in a better position to evaluate him than anyone. And looking at Indy's schedule, this could be a decent pick. The pick they spent last year is a sunk cost, you can't factor that in when making a decision now, just whether or not Richardson is worth a mid first round pick.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Count me among those that doesn't think this is bad value for the Browns. T-Rich hasn't looked like anything special and they got a 1st rounder for him. Obviously it's a big surprise because of the timing; going into week 3 in only his second year after being a top pick and then, bam, traded. Of course, the chance exists that a change of scenery will help him fulfill the potential that he had, but if he continues to look as unimpressive as he has so far, then I'd say the Browns came out ahead in this deal by quite a bit. Giving up a 1st for a RB averaging >4.0 per carry...yikes.

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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I have mixed emotions about this because I don't care who we have in our backfield, our strength will be throwing the football. We keep lining up in this eye **** and it isn't using our strengths. FB is a wasted position on the field for us. With Dwayne Allen gone we are at an even greater running disadvantage. Our OL isn't capable of producing for a star. An average back would have been adequate. What we really need is an OG to replace McGlynn. Luck is getting killed and we trade our first round pick which should have gone towards a promising OT/OG for yet another RB.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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I'm still in shock over this. Seems like if you wanted another QB Richardson would be the guy to keep around...
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Injuries are a concern, but I still think of college Trent Richardson. The guy was a very special player, and I thought he was very deserving of the third overall pick. Injuries and a dysfunctional offense slowed him down last year, but he still had a damn good year, totaling over 1300 yards from scrimmage and 12 TDs. Hes a 3-down back who runs with power and also has big-play ability, and he can also block and catch the ball out of the backfield. I dont know why the Browns didnt use him more, but I think the change of scenery will help him. He will still be running behind a dogshit offensive line (indys is actually worse than clevelands by far), but teams wont be stacking the box, and I think the Colts might actually attempt to establish their run game. And I just dont agree with the idea that establishing the run is a thing of the past in todays NFL.

As for the Browns, its just interesting to see them essentially throwing in the towel on this season so quickly. Clearly, they didnt feel Richardson was a piece of the puzzle for their future, which is obviously a red flag, but their team just got worse. If this is about jockeying for a top QB, I guess it means they are already giving up on Weeden. Two ugly losses and an injured QB and a Browns team that I thought could really make some noise this year is already looking to next year. Its odd to me that they traded away Richardson like that without ever really seeing what he can do. In each of the past 2 weeks, theyve been locked up in low-scoring contests that were relatively close. In those 2 games, Richardson had 31 carries. Brandon Weeden threw the ball 86 times in those 2 games and posted a QB rating of 62 with 3 INTs and 1 TD. Why didnt they try actually establishing the run and getting their best playmaker involved???
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RCAChainGang View Post
I have mixed emotions about this because I don't care who we have in our backfield, our strength will be throwing the football. We keep lining up in this eye **** and it isn't using our strengths. FB is a wasted position on the field for us. With Dwayne Allen gone we are at an even greater running disadvantage. Our OL isn't capable of producing for a star. An average back would have been adequate. What we really need is an OG to replace McGlynn. Luck is getting killed and we trade our first round pick which should have gone towards a promising OT/OG for yet another RB.
You have an above average back in Bradshaw, and he looked damn good last week.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Wow. This is hard to stomach because Trent is a great guy and young and talented but Monomach/GP are spot on. Bradshaw is a superior back. And imo, if McGahee is signed by the Browns, it's a wash for the short term.

The line has struggled to start this season but TR has never shown a terrific speed cut or break away ability. Factor in the injury concerns and it makes more sense. Since watching him as a rookie I felt the team was going to need to compliment him with a speed back. That's not good for a guy taken so high. Bust is way to drastic but he has been a disappointment thus far. I felt there were other rookie backs that looked better. Pierce, Martin, Morris among them.

But I certainly don't see it as a bad move by the Colts. The biggest benefit is that now Trent has a respected and talented vet to learn from. He is strong in the passing game as well with great hands although this coaching staff had some issues with his protection ability. It is a little reminiscent of the Colts' Faulk trade. He'll be a star in Indy provided he stays healthy while the Browns could potentially turn these picks into some key long term players on offense.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:07 PM    (permalink
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But after 1 year though? I don't care how bad people say he is it was just one year on a really bad team. I mean teams could just stack their front 7 every play, who was going to respect Weeden?
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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Marshall Faulk only averaged 3.8 yards per carry over five years with the Colts.

He sucked, I don't know why the Rams wanted to trade for him. Why wouldn't they have just drafted an offensive lineman? They probably would've won, like, 6 Super Bowls.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Trent Richardson is extremely overrated. He definitely wasn't worth the 3rd pick in the draft, and I guess if Cleveland thought that he wouldn't pan out, then getting a first rounder isn't the worst thing in the world.

That being said, it just makes the Colts offense so much better.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Trent Richardson is extremely overrated. He definitely wasn't worth the 3rd pick in the draft, and I guess if Cleveland thought that he wouldn't pan out, then getting a first rounder isn't the worst thing in the world.

That being said, it just makes the Colts offense so much better.
Played through injuries his rookie year on a horrible team.
Still on a horrible team to start 2013.

I will give him a chance on a team with a QB like Luck before I say he is overrated.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Played through injuries his rookie year on a horrible team.
Still on a horrible team to start 2013.

I will give him a chance on a team with a QB like Luck before I say he is overrated.
Seriously. And I even thought Richardson was overrated as a prospect. Overdrafted, even, but Ahmad Bradshaw's not the most reliable guy, and if they Colts have a good season, Richardson's well-worth what'll likely end up being a draft pick in the 20s.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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where have you been? that's literally all people judge players on anymore. quick, quote some box scores to fit in.
If you take Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick's stats so far and extrapolate them over a full 16-game season, they look like this:

Alex Smith: 336 of 560 (60%) for 3168 yards, 32 TDs and 0 INTs (94.7 rating)
- 96 attempts, 656 yards rushing

Colin Kaepernick: 320 of 536 (59.7%) for 4312 yards, 24 TDs and 24 INTs (81.6 rating)
- 128 attempts, 872 yards rushing

Who would you rather have? Kaepernick is more explosive but Alex Smith is more efficient.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Marshall Faulk only averaged 3.8 yards per carry over five years with the Colts.

He sucked, I don't know why the Rams wanted to trade for him. Why wouldn't they have just drafted an offensive lineman? They probably would've won, like, 6 Super Bowls.
Players averaged far less ypc back then. Plus, he only accounted for 2200 yards of offense the season before they traded for him. Oh, and he averaged 9.4 yards a reception.

Richardson is a good back, but he's not Marshall Faulk. You can build a team with backs that are not first round picks. In fact, most would say it's almost easier to do so. The Browns realize they have to get the right QB, and if you do that, the RB doesn't matter as much and you can get them after getting the QB.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:01 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Players averaged far less ypc back then. Plus, he only accounted for 2200 yards of offense the season before they traded for him. Oh, and he averaged 9.4 yards a reception.

Richardson is a good back, but he's not Marshall Faulk. You can build a team with backs that are not first round picks. In fact, most would say it's almost easier to do so. The Browns realize they have to get the right QB, and if you do that, the RB doesn't matter as much and you can get them after getting the QB.
Marshall Faulk was a first round pick who only became Marshall Faulk, Hall of Famer, after being traded away from the team that drafted him. That's the point. The difference was immediate and lasting and was the result of being placed in a different scheme with a different supporting cast, and who knows - maybe it motivated him. All this is possible for Trent Richardson, who, I'll say again, has some fairly striking early-career similarities to LaDainian Tomlinson.

Also, I get tired of people talking about how "you can always get a back in the middle rounds." No, you can't. Good teams are supposed to be able to find good players in all the rounds, and the reason Richardson went high is because he's a fairly rare physical specimen. I also believe if there's a player you can make a move for that significantly improves your team, you do it. I think that's what Indy did.

Also... Is this the most blatantly a team has ever flushed a season down the toilet? Did ownership tell them, "I want Bridgewater. Do what you have to." ?
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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but what if you just looked at kaepernick's stats from two years ago and compared them to kaepernick's stats from 2017?
I think the thing that skews it is that Kaepernick didn't play wide receiver in college, like Ryan Tannehill, who had 55 receptions for 844 yards and 5 TDs, setting a bunch of freshman records at Texas A&M. Tannehill is a good quarterback, and I think Kaepernick would have been a good college wide receiver, too, but we'll never know and that makes it harder to judge his overall potential in the League.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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This is a good trade for both teams. Indianapolis is able to address an area of relative weakness on the team with a young back on a very reasonably contract and significant potential, while Cleveland gets to liquidate one of their main assets for a premium pick. It's possible that being healthy and moving into a more diverse offense will lead to a spike in his production, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Richardson was destined to become the same player with the Browns, or that new management should be bound to picks made by the previous regime or basically an offensive philosophy created by the previous regime. When you've got an offensive line featuring three studs in Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Mitchell Schwartz, and another solid player in John Greco, you expect more than 3.5 yards per carry from a top-five draft pick as well. Richardson could become one of the best running backs in the league, but not much which has occurred thus far suggests he will, so it's understandable to want to pick up a first-round pick for someone who's been a relatively inefficient player and who plays a position which is saturated with talent around the league. It does seem like they may be giving up a little too soon, though.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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This is a good trade for both teams. Indianapolis is able to address an area of relative weakness on the team with a young back on a very reasonably contract and significant potential, while Cleveland gets to liquidate one of their main assets for a premium pick. It's possible that being healthy and moving into a more diverse offense will lead to a spike in his production, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Richardson was destined to become the same player with the Browns, or that new management should be bound to picks made by the previous regime or basically an offensive philosophy created by the previous regime. When you've got an offensive line featuring three studs in Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Mitchell Schwartz, and another solid player in John Greco, you expect more than 3.5 yards per carry from a top-five draft pick as well. Richardson could become one of the best running backs in the league, but not much which has occurred thus far suggests he will, so it's understandable to want to pick up a first-round pick for someone who's been a relatively inefficient player and who plays a position which is saturated with talent around the league. It does seem like they may be giving up a little too soon, though.
Is there a way to see how many times he has faced 8 in the box?
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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Richardson had Weeden as his QB, no true #1 WR, and worst Guard combo in the NFL. Who is not going to stack the box against the Browns? Plus the Browns did not even try to run the ball with him for some reason they have thrown the ball with Weeden 82 times.
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