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Old 10-01-2013, 08:00 AM    (permalink
Grizzlegom
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Originally Posted by Fantasysports247 View Post
Anyone out there think Penn State will be better then 8-4?
Me. But I'm also a homer. Ohio State is the only game that I don't think we have a chance in. Wouldn't be shocked to see us win out after that one.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:42 AM    (permalink
iowatreat54
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Me. But I'm also a homer. Ohio State is the only game that I don't think we have a chance in. Wouldn't be shocked to see us win out after that one.
Only because you don't need to worry about your annual turd laying against us this season!

:)
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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This is a very young PSU team. Anything above .500 is a good season.

They only have 6 Senior starters and half of those are really full-time platoons with underclassmen.

Next year's expectations should be higher, with biggest loss being Jones (Robinson too, if he enters early).
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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All I have to say is... BOOM!
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Eh....all it takes is the right coach. If you can win at Wisconsin and Iowa, you can win at Minnesota.

I don't believe Kill is that guy, however, and I never really did.
Minnesota was absolutely stupid in firing Glenn Mason. He had you guys operating at peak performance for UofM given how the school operates their football program (i.e. not outright paying huge $$$ for players).
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Minnesota was absolutely stupid in firing Glenn Mason. He had you guys operating at peak performance for UofM given how the school operates their football program (i.e. not outright paying huge $$$ for players).
Oh Jesus......no they weren't.

Glen Mason was 32-48 in the Big Ten in his 10 years there. That's 40%. That's the same as Danny Hope performed in the Big Ten and he was given four years by Purdue, a program that has absolutely no reason to be any better than Minnesota at football.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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The bacon tastes sooooo good.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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The bacon tastes sooooo good.
Victory bacon is the best bacon.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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Oh Jesus......no they weren't.

Glen Mason was 32-48 in the Big Ten in his 10 years there. That's 40%. That's the same as Danny Hope performed in the Big Ten and he was given four years by Purdue, a program that has absolutely no reason to be any better than Minnesota at football.
He was uneven. He actually took you to bowl games. You actually competed in, and occasionally won, games against real live football teams.

Here is record at Minnesota. He had some bad years, but that is to be expected when you don't have an awesome pipeline of studs where a few misses don't kill you.

Quote:
Minnesota Golden Gophers (Big Ten Conference) (1997–2006)
1997 Minnesota 3–9 1–7 T–9th
1998 Minnesota 5–6 2–6 T–7th
1999 Minnesota 8–4 5–3 T–4th L Sun 17 18
2000 Minnesota 6–6 4–4 T–5th L MicronPC.com
2001 Minnesota 4–7 2–6 T–10th
2002 Minnesota 8–5 3–5 7th W Music City
2003 Minnesota 10–3 5–3 T–4th W Sun 17 20
2004 Minnesota 7–5 3–5 8th W Music City
2005 Minnesota 7–5 4–4 7th L Music City
2006 Minnesota 6–7 3–5 T–6th L Insight
Minnesota: 64–57 32–48
Total: 123–121–1
#Rankings from final Coaches' Poll.
°Rankings from final AP Poll.
Brewster:
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2007 Minnesota 1–11 0–8 11th
2008 Minnesota 7–6 3–5 T–6th L Insight
2009 Minnesota 6–7 3–5 8th L Insight
2010 Minnesota 1–6 0–3
Kill:
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2011 Minnesota 3–9 2–6 6th (Legends)
2012 Minnesota 6–7 2–6 6th (Legends) L Meineke Car Care
2013 Minnesota 4–1 0–1

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Old 10-02-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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Eh, Minnesota should have kept Mason if they were content with mediocrity. Sure, a realist would say Minnesota is never going to be Ohio State or Michigan and compete for Big Ten titles and potentionally national championships on an annual basis.

But there's no way an AD should look at and accept mediocrity in a football program at a Big Ten school. Yes, their AD whiffed big time on Brewster and Kill right now looks like a Mason clone at best, but you can't really fault Minnesota trying to go from Mason to taking the next step. There's no reason Minnesota shouldn't at least aim to be like Wisconsin.

They rolled the dice, and lost big time. It happens. But that's like saying Michigan should never have let Lloyd Carr go because they ended up with DickRod.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Eh, Minnesota should have kept Mason if they were content with mediocrity. Sure, a realist would say Minnesota is never going to be Ohio State or Michigan and compete for Big Ten titles and potentionally national championships on an annual basis.

But there's no way an AD should look at and accept mediocrity in a football program at a Big Ten school. Yes, their AD whiffed big time on Brewster and Kill right now looks like a Mason clone at best, but you can't really fault Minnesota trying to go from Mason to taking the next step. There's no reason Minnesota shouldn't at least aim to be like Wisconsin.

They rolled the dice, and lost big time. It happens. But that's like saying Michigan should never have let Lloyd Carr go because they ended up with DickRod.
You only let someone go if it's going to improve your program. Change with a low probability upside is how businesses go out of business, especially if the status quo is acceptable.

You could look at Brewster and Kill and have a pretty good idea that they were going to be lame. You need dollars and proper DD to hire a quality HC that can improve a program like Minnesota. And be ready for that hire to leave or for you to pay him more when he holds you hostage.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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You only let someone go if it's going to improve your program. Change with a low probability upside is how businesses go out of business, especially if the status quo is acceptable.

You could look at Brewster and Kill and have a pretty good idea that they were going to be lame. You need dollars and proper DD to hire a quality HC that can improve a program like Minnesota. And be ready for that hire to leave or for you to pay him more when he holds you hostage.
Yes, but the problem was keeping Mason likely was not going to bring them in any significant additional money going forward. With Mason, they likely plateaued as a program. BF or some other Minnesota fans can probably offer more insight, but my vague recollection is that the fanbase also was becoming apathetic to Gopher football. Minnesota had to make a change.

Now, you can argue that they made bad hires and I wouldn't disagree. However, at that point in time, keeping Mason while trying to build up the funds to go out and get a big name guy, which also was no guarantee, would have likely just drove the program further down.

Let's not confuse Minnesota at that time with an Indiana or like Kentucky. Minnesota has a decent recruiting base, a good not great fanbase, a far history of greatness and a more recent history of at least average. It's not like they needed to hire someone to completely rebuild the program, they need someone (coupled with facility upgrades) that could SELL the program, which is what they targetted with a young, enthusiastic guy like Brewster. Unfortunately for them, Brewster has no idea how to coach football.

They made the wrong hire, which torpedoed them from mediocrity to the gutter of Big Ten football. Making a coaching change wasn't the wrong decision at the time, hiring Brewster was the wrong decision.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Tim Brewster is one helluva an Assistant Coach and Recruiter.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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He was uneven. He actually took you to bowl games. You actually competed in, and occasionally won, games against real live football teams.

Here is record at Minnesota. He had some bad years, but that is to be expected when you don't have an awesome pipeline of studs where a few misses don't kill you.
Your argument is both condescending and off the mark. If the absolute best you can do in 10 years is an appearance in the Sun Bowl, I'd rather roll the dice and risk failure.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Tim Brewster is one helluva an Assistant Coach and Recruiter.
He is. If I was starting a staff, he'd the best the first guy I'd hire. He's a dolt as a head coach because frankly he's not very smart, but the guy works his ass of and can recruit.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Let's not confuse Minnesota at that time with an Indiana or like Kentucky. Minnesota has a decent recruiting base, a good not great fanbase, a far history of greatness and a more recent history of at least average. It's not like they needed to hire someone to completely rebuild the program, they need someone (coupled with facility upgrades) that could SELL the program, which is what they targetted with a young, enthusiastic guy like Brewster. Unfortunately for them, Brewster has no idea how to coach football.

They made the wrong hire, which torpedoed them from mediocrity to the gutter of Big Ten football. Making a coaching change wasn't the wrong decision at the time, hiring Brewster was the wrong decision.
This. Minnesota is the only D1 program in a state that produces, at the least 5-6 Big Ten worthy recruits a year. Add in a brand new stadium and Big Ten money and there's no reason they can't, at the least, be on par with a program like Iowa. There's really nothing that makes Minnesota different than half the programs in the Big Ten, other than a saturation of pro teams in Minneapolis and many awful football hires.

Give us Barry Alvarez in 1993 and we're Wisconsin. That's the only difference.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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He is. If I was starting a staff, he'd the best the first guy I'd hire. He's a dolt as a head coach because frankly he's not very smart, but the guy works his ass of and can recruit.
Nick O'Leary is so improved under him.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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I wasn't trying to be insulting to UofMinn.

There just isn't enough talent in the state and surrounding states to divide up amongst UofMinn, Wisconsin, Iowa, and to a lesser extent, North Dakota State.

A coach would need to be a national recruiter for a northern city (a city which is awesome, but still, it's cold) which is difficult. It's hard for a school like ND, which is a bigger name than UofMinn.

I think, barring a huge infusion of cash, the ceiling for UofMinn is a Virgina Tech level of competition during the Vick years. A national contender during the peaks, a top 30 team in the worst years, top 15 during most seasons. You just can't miss with your recruits when your talent base is thin.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Yes, but the problem was keeping Mason likely was not going to bring them in any significant additional money going forward. With Mason, they likely plateaued as a program. BF or some other Minnesota fans can probably offer more insight, but my vague recollection is that the fanbase also was becoming apathetic to Gopher football. Minnesota had to make a change.

Now, you can argue that they made bad hires and I wouldn't disagree. However, at that point in time, keeping Mason while trying to build up the funds to go out and get a big name guy, which also was no guarantee, would have likely just drove the program further down.

Let's not confuse Minnesota at that time with an Indiana or like Kentucky. Minnesota has a decent recruiting base, a good not great fanbase, a far history of greatness and a more recent history of at least average. It's not like they needed to hire someone to completely rebuild the program, they need someone (coupled with facility upgrades) that could SELL the program, which is what they targetted with a young, enthusiastic guy like Brewster. Unfortunately for them, Brewster has no idea how to coach football.

They made the wrong hire, which torpedoed them from mediocrity to the gutter of Big Ten football. Making a coaching change wasn't the wrong decision at the time, hiring Brewster was the wrong decision.
My point is you don't make the hire if it's not a guaranteed step up. They swung for the fences while closing their eyes. Terrible moves. You need a proven commodity, a national (or at least greater B1G footprint + Texas) recruiter than can actually coach.

A school like OSU, Texas, Bama, etc... can afford a subpar hire, the programs kinda run themselves, for better or worse (which shows just how bad of a coach Luke Fickell is, but I digress). The non powerhouses need great hires.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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My point is you don't make the hire if it's not a guaranteed step up. They swung for the fences while closing their eyes. Terrible moves. You need a proven commodity, a national (or at least greater B1G footprint + Texas) recruiter than can actually coach.

A school like OSU, Texas, Bama, etc... can afford a subpar hire, the programs kinda run themselves, for better or worse (which shows just how bad of a coach Luke Fickell is, but I digress). The non powerhouses need great hires.
Right, which is exactly my point. They decided to make a change, which was the correct choice, but made a terrible hire. They should have hired a more proven commodity or at least someone with proven coordinator experience at a large school, not some blowhard that had to lie about how many wins and losses he has in his career.

Either way, Mason was not the right man for the job anymore and keeping him longer would only further sink the ship. In hind sight, it wouldn't have been as bad as hiring Brewster, though.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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I think, barring a huge infusion of cash, the ceiling for UofMinn is a Virgina Tech level of competition during the Vick years. A national contender during the peaks, a top 30 team in the worst years, top 15 during most seasons. You just can't miss with your recruits when your talent base is thin.
Coming anything close to Virginia Tech would be lightyears ahead of what Mason did for us, and honestly I don't think anyone even expects that.

Mason had a 40% record in league play with 2 finishes in the top 25 in ten years. Anything approaching 50% in the Big Ten and in the B1G title hunt every 3-4 years would be just fine. Joe Tiller did it at Purdue, Kirk Ferentz has done it at Iowa, Pat Fitzergald is doing it at Northwestern. We can compete at that level with the right coach.

I should also add that I don't think Kill is that coach. He's a tremendous FCS or MAC coach, but his "aw shucks" high school football coach demeanor isn't cutting it in the Big Ten. Frankly I just don't think he's all that smart and the program he has in place is too small potatoes to get us anywhere. I'm fine giving him another season and a half, because I hate firing any coach after 3 years unless it's a total disaster, but I don't have much faith in him either.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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I'm getting kind of sick to my stomach agreeing with BF regarding Minnesota football.


Hey BF, why don't you have some bacon? OH RIGHT YOU CAN'T BECAUSE FLOYD IS IN HIS RIGHTFUL HOME!
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Coming anything close to Virginia Tech would be lightyears ahead of what Mason did for us, and honestly I don't think anyone even expects that.

Mason had a 40% record in league play with 2 finishes in the top 25 in ten years. Anything approaching 50% in the Big Ten and in the B1G title hunt every 3-4 years would be just fine. Joe Tiller did it at Purdue, Kirk Ferentz has done it at Iowa, Pat Fitzergald is doing it at Northwestern. We can compete at that level with the right coach.

I should also add that I don't think Kill is that coach. He's a tremendous FCS or MAC coach, but his "aw shucks" high school football coach demeanor isn't cutting it in the Big Ten. Frankly I just don't think he's all that smart and the program he has in place is too small potatoes to get us anywhere. I'm fine giving him another season and a half, because I hate firing any coach after 3 years unless it's a total disaster, but I don't have much faith in him either.
Fair enough.

What makes me nauseous about B1G football is that all participating schools get a huge paycheck that is primarily generated by a handful of programs. The remaining schools shell out no money for their coaching staffs. Pretty crapy, IMO. The SEC has top coaches at even their crappiest schools. That's by far the biggest difference (that and they are really really good at using cash to pay players and not having money trails).
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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I think most any Big Ten schools could build respectable programs with the right coaching and investments in the program. Definitely generating plenty of money per school, and that looks like it will continue to increase. If Wisconsin can do it, I see no reason schools like Minnesota can't build programs and have the expectation of competing for the Big Ten.

Of course not every school can be a national power house, but there's no reason to accept making a few bowl games as the best expectation. ADs goal should be to have a coach in place that gives the team a reasonable shot at winning the division. If you're going into the season knowing that the best you can hope for is getting to 6 wins and a bowl game mostly on beating the weak OOC games, it's time to take a chance on improving.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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B1G released the 2018 and 2019 schedules today. Talk about planning in advance.
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