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Old 10-02-2013, 04:10 PM    (permalink
Forenci
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The Packers. Their entire team is built through the draft. Stud skill players are high picks but LBers and inside Oline is all built through the middle rounds.

Who do you think has the best LB corps and O-line in the league? Maybe the top 3 at each. Go and look where all those guys are acquired.
I mean, they build through the draft but they've had one of the WORST offensive lines and a pretty craptastic defense so I'm not really sure this is making a valid point of building through the draft.

Not to mention, one of the BIGGEST moves the Packers ever made was to sign Charles Woodson.

That and they have arguably the best QB in football during the regular season. And they had Favre before him. It's easy to be consistent with two Hall of Famers. Same for us. Eli made us look GREAT even at times when we really were not that talented. Damn, what year was it when he probably could have and should have been MVP? I remember some stat where he literally led us to come back and win in the 4th quarter like 10+ times.

Unfortunately, Eli is getting murdered and our offense has been figured out.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I mean, they build through the draft but they've had one of the WORST offensive lines and a pretty craptastic defense so I'm not really sure this is making a valid point of building through the draft.

Not to mention, one of the BIGGEST moves the Packers ever made was to sign Charles Woodson.

That and they have arguably the best QB in football during the regular season. And they had Favre before him. It's easy to be consistent with two Hall of Famers. Same for us. Eli made us look GREAT even at times when we really were not that talented. Damn, what year was it when he probably could have and should have been MVP? I remember some stat where he literally led us to come back and win in the 4th quarter like 10+ times.

Unfortunately, Eli is getting murdered and our offense has been figured out.
2011 our last super bowl run.

And yeah we have been saying this from last year. Our guys are just not getting open... the offense is figured out. That and Nicks is always jogging.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Damn a lot of activity in this thread. It jumped a few pages quickly.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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i dont understand this "yeah they just have to hit in the first two rounds but not the rest". It's their ******* jobs to hit on the rest. We keep bringing in these mid rounders that do NOTHING and get cut during camp. Mid-rounders are the fresh blood that come in and play a specific role. I'm not asking for a Tom Brady every draft, or really ever, but come on. Most of our mid-rounders are dudes who literally contribute nothing. Our 3rd round track record is pretty bad and our 4th is horrendous. We were winning super bowls with guys like the Tucks (high end of the spectrum but example of talent in the 3rd round), Diehl's, Seubert's, Boss's, Ballard's, etc.

Hell, even our 2nd round track record's been mediocre at best. Yes, there's injuries nailing a bit of them, but still.

the consistently good teams have these mid rounders contributing something. Those mid-rounders also keep these old re-treads that everyones complaining about off the field.

And yeah, we can talk smack on the Packers, but they're in quite a better spot than us right now, no? Niners. Saints. Texans. These teams have dudes in there contributing. The fact that we're just brushing over 5 rounds under the rug as saying "meh, it's a crapshoot, nbd" is absurd. And it's not like we've blown those other 2 rounds out of the water.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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The biggest thing that is disconcerting to me is the lack of production from our DEs.

In the past our DEs have drawn extra attention, but still get pressure.

I am actually thinking it is more than our players not playing well, I think some of it comes back to scheme and what the DEs are being asked to do.

We do have four DEs with legitimate talent, it is very unlikely that all of them will be performing poorly at the same time.

Our DTs are generally playing well, which for me makes the lack of production at DE more of a worry.

DEs have long been the strength of our defence, but that is simply not the case anymore.

I am wondering if it is time to look at a new defensive scheme.

The way I look at it, we have three main options in doing this.

1. Tweak the system we have, bringing in an experienced 4-3 DC, maybe Lovie Smith (if he doesn't get a head coach gig) or possibly Spagnuolo.

2. Bring in a 3-4 defence, most likely with an experienced coach like Keith Butler (Steelers LB coach) or similar.

3. Bring in a hybrid style defence, maybe along the lines of Seattle's D


The biggest issue is that it seems we need to overhaul our LBs and DEs next offseason, so really all options are very much on the table.

I am actually thinking a 3-4 could be our best option considering our talent. With Joseph, Jenkins, Hankins, Rogers and Kuhn we have a solid core of big bodies. Pierre-Paul, Moore and Kiwanuka could make the transition to OLB.

Ideally I would like to see something akin to Seattle's defensive system, but I don't think we can do that in the short term.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Damn a lot of activity in this thread. It jumped a few pages quickly.
Lots of opinions to flow either way, good to see the interest though
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we've done below other top teams in later rounds *shrug* Not many teams hit on many guys after day two, we're not below average there and Reese just nails early picks. We need to luck into another steal or two like we did, and we'll be an xceptionally talented team again, with a good FA period.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:58 AM    (permalink
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How does the cap work if a player retires? Would the salary not count towards it at all?
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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I think we do have mid rounders who have contributed. JWill, Cruz, Ballard, Scott, Cox will contribute, Paysinger, Mario, Barden, Andre Brown, Hoseley.

Have those guys not contributed? Sure none of them are superstars other than Cruz but we have had contributions from those guys.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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I think we do have mid rounders who have contributed. JWill, Cruz, Ballard, Scott, Cox will contribute, Paysinger, Mario, Barden, Andre Brown, Hoseley.

Have those guys not contributed? Sure none of them are superstars other than Cruz but we have had contributions from those guys.
I would definitely say Barden, Scott, and Paysinger have not contributed. Barden contributed in one game over 4 or 5 years. Great value for a 3rd round pick there. Doesn't play special. Another guy who doesn't have a job after us letting him go. Scott was basically at the end of the draft, so can't complain about value, but he's been dead weight. Paysinger is basically just a body. We've actually done better with undrafted guys which is pretty funny.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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I would definitely say Barden, Scott, and Paysinger have not contributed. Barden contributed in one game over 4 or 5 years. Great value for a 3rd round pick there. Doesn't play special. Scott was basically at the end of the draft, so can't complain about value, but he's been dead weight. Paysinger is basically just a body. We've actually done better with undrafted guys which is pretty funny.
Paysinger starts for us. I don't like the guy but he contributes none the less. The problem is, we haven't found a legitimate starter in the mid rounds. Part of that is bc we used the mid rounds for these project OLmen and they all bombed.

That's really what the true problem is. Our farm system of using mid round picks on OLmen has failed. So it hurt us bc we didn't acquire any legit starters with those selections and also gave us the false hope of having a developing OL behind the veterans.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Paysinger has been one of our better ST players. I'd put him somewhere in the middle of not contributing/contributing.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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The 2 teams other than the Pats with multiple SB appearances in the past 6 years are both 0-4.

You don't stay good forever. The Pats make up for it with arguably the greatest QB of all time and arguably the greatest coach of all time.

It's a process. We're really not that far off from being good again. We just got old. It happens. Get 2 OLmen and a pass rusher and we'll be contenders again.

The sky isn't falling.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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This year went to **** but I have a lot of confidence that we will be back next year.

It's just time for a change. We tried squeezing one more year out of this group and we couldn't. That's all.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone here thinks the sky is falling. We've had a great run and we were due to have a bad year eventually. It's going to be very important for Reese to make the correct decisions going forward. I still think we might make a mini run at things this year because of our craptastic division. I'm also still damn proud to be a Giants fan and now's the time when you see the real fans from the fake.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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It's not out of the question. All we have to do is get some cohesion along the OL and not run streaks with our WRs on every play and we could salvage the season in some capacity.

But I just don't trust Gilbride to make adjustments. This game will decide if we go 4-12 or 8-8 really. If we win I can see 8-8. If we lose, we're going 4-12.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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I'm just glad hockey's back and my Avs are too sexy.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Bro. Wtf. And what about the Knicks?

#AStormIsComing very soon.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Lots of opinions to flow either way, good to see the interest though
What time does this take place? Throughout the day or night time? Seems like I wake up in the morning and it's moved a few pages.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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I think we do have mid rounders who have contributed. JWill, Cruz, Ballard, Scott, Cox will contribute, Paysinger, Mario, Barden, Andre Brown, Hoseley.

Have those guys not contributed? Sure none of them are superstars other than Cruz but we have had contributions from those guys.
Scott barely counts, he's gone now and would've been cut if not for Browns injury. Barden did nothing, waste of a third rounder. Cox has done nothing. Mario and hosley were 3rd rounders, those are top 100 picks, they're supposed to do something. Idk why we cut it at two rounds here. And my god, we have so many 4-6th round development Ol who've done literally nothing outside of Whimper. And then all the 6th-7th rounders at Db who couldn't even make it out of camp. We need to take the blinders off a little and look at it for what it really is.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Bro. Wtf. And what about the Knicks?

#AStormIsComing very soon.
I'm excited for basketball to be back, but Dolan pisses me off. And then we fired Grunwald for no apparent reason, gah **** basketball this year, especially if miami gets the threepeat.

At least in hockey I have hope and have seen my team win. Now that they've got not just competent management but a coach with a pulse to go with the insane amount of young talent they have, the future is very bright in colorado and outside of soccer they'll have most of my attention for the rest of the year. Especially if they keep up their sexy play as they just thrashed the Ducks 6-1 in the opener, only giving up a goal with under ten seconds left in the game.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Scott barely counts, he's gone now and would've been cut if not for Browns injury. Barden did nothing, waste of a third rounder. Cox has done nothing. Mario and hosley were 3rd rounders, those are top 100 picks, they're supposed to do something. Idk why we cut it at two rounds here. And my god, we have so many 4-6th round development Ol who've done literally nothing outside of Whimper. And then all the 6th-7th rounders at Db who couldn't even make it out of camp. We need to take the blinders off a little and look at it for what it really is.
You know that's what other teams also do in the 4th-7th rounds, right? Get occassional contributers like Jacquain, Brown and Paysinger. Hell Cruz being such a stud probably means we've added more talent outside of the first two days of the draft than most teams.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Scott barely counts, he's gone now and would've been cut if not for Browns injury. Barden did nothing, waste of a third rounder. Cox has done nothing. Mario and hosley were 3rd rounders, those are top 100 picks, they're supposed to do something. Idk why we cut it at two rounds here. And my god, we have so many 4-6th round development Ol who've done literally nothing outside of Whimper. And then all the 6th-7th rounders at Db who couldn't even make it out of camp. We need to take the blinders off a little and look at it for what it really is.
Here's the problem: If you go back and look at every draft from 2008 to now, and look at the players available from rounds 4 to 7, I bet you'll find 1 or 2 players in each round that actually amounted to something.

For us to expect Reese to hit on those rounds even 50% of the time is asking a bit much. Think about it, if even 3 players each round make it, that means 29 teams whiffed in that round.

The success rate in those rounds aren't nearly as high as you think they are. Look at the overall talent of this team, it's really not that much worse than a lot of the better teams in this league. That's the measure you gauge us by.

I just want 3 to 4 players each year in the draft and UDFA and I'm good. That's a realistic desire for the offseason. I don't care where they come from, if you get 3 you had a good offseason, if you had 4 you had a great one.

We get a solid 3 every year. You can't ask for more than that.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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I'm excited for basketball to be back, but Dolan pisses me off. And then we fired Grunwald for no apparent reason, gah **** basketball this year, especially if miami gets the threepeat.

At least in hockey I have hope and have seen my team win. Now that they've got not just competent management but a coach with a pulse to go with the insane amount of young talent they have, the future is very bright in colorado and outside of soccer they'll have most of my attention for the rest of the year. Especially if they keep up their sexy play as they just thrashed the Ducks 6-1 in the opener, only giving up a goal with under ten seconds left in the game.
I'm extremely pissed we fired Grunwald. James Dolan is a giant turd and I hate his face.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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I'm extremely pissed we fired Grunwald. James Dolan is a giant turd and I hate his face.
Rangers start tonight! Free NHL Center Ice package until the 19th for Direct TV. Pumped about that!
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