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Old 10-04-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
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Originally Posted by kBuc5 View Post
Ummm they tried for a week to trade him before it was leaked he was in phase one of the drug program. He was not tradable with that contract and after Freeman's interview with ESPN that Schiano did not authorize the smear campaign was on. Coincendence after Freemans interview with ESPN and his agent calling Schiano out on a lie that the info he was in the drug program got leaked? No way. Pretty simple to follow, Freeman is now damaged goods, no way he puts it out there that he has ADHD and is on medication.

There's where you, and the local media have it wrong.


I'm pretty sure, that Mark Dominik has been trying to trade Freeman since before Week 1 at the Jets. Remember, it was the following week, that Ian Rappaport reported Freeman was going to ask for a trade? Yeah... the players' only meeting wasn't the team somehow revolting against Schiano. It was more an intervention with Freeman.

Think about the timeline.....


-He missed his own camp for kids
-He missed meetings
-He missed the team photo
-He wasn't voted captain by his own teammates
*players' only meeting*
-He missed the team meal prior to Jets game
-He came to the bus late
-He sucked
-He missed meetings
-He sucked
-He sucked some more
-He got benched
-He pouted and missed more meetings
-He asked to be traded, then changed his mind and asked to be cut
-He announced he is in the substance abuse program



My question stands. I think Freeman released his own information, to speed up the process of getting his released by making himself untradeable. Also, because, in the short term, it could be made out that it was Schiano or the Bucs that released that info and become some sort of Darth Vader.


You have very little of anything to contradict that right now. I may be wrong..... but I highly doubt it at this point.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
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Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
That's what I mean true or not true, we can say this, he wasn't a mess or a problem guy before Schiano came. Now all of a sudden he has a whole list of issues? That's very sketchy. Like in 1 offseason he decided to re-invent himself and be a bad boy of the Bucs.

They should interview the former Bucs coach and see what he has to say.

Raheem Morris, the guy who coached Freeman at K-State, drafted him to Tampa and partied with him for 3 years before getting canned.... yeah.... if you can make out the words through the slobber, I guess you could post a Morris quote on his thoughts of Freeman.




So far as sketchy......


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Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post
Has it crossed anybody else's mind that the Bucs had two players (Aqib Talib and Eric Wright) get suspended last year for taking Adderall, the same drug Freeman has a prescription for, and apparently at around the same time that Freeman took another drug (Ritalin) for his ADHD..... they got popped by the NFL...... was he missing some Adderall pills and needed to find a replacement? Why would a guy have a prescription to treat a condition, have it ok'd by the league, then use another banned substance that he doesn't have ok'd to treat the same condition? It doesn't make sense..... unless I'm on to something. Just sayin'.

That's sketchy.....
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DeadEagle View Post
There's where you, and the local media have it wrong.


I'm pretty sure, that Mark Dominik has been trying to trade Freeman since before Week 1 at the Jets. Remember, it was the following week, that Ian Rappaport reported Freeman was going to ask for a trade? Yeah... the players' only meeting wasn't the team somehow revolting against Schiano. It was more an intervention with Freeman.

Think about the timeline.....


-He missed his own camp for kids
-He missed meetings
-He missed the team photo
-He wasn't voted captain by his own teammates
*players' only meeting*
-He missed the team meal prior to Jets game
-He came to the bus late
-He sucked
-He missed meetings
-He sucked
-He sucked some more
-He got benched
-He pouted and missed more meetings
-He asked to be traded, then changed his mind and asked to be cut
-He announced he is in the substance abuse program



My question stands. I think Freeman released his own information, to speed up the process of getting his released by making himself untradeable. Also, because, in the short term, it could be made out that it was Schiano or the Bucs that released that info and become some sort of Darth Vader.


You have very little of anything to contradict that right now. I may be wrong..... but I highly doubt it at this point.
This. All of this. Every word. Every syllable. Every letter.

Freeman is a gigantic turd and he's done a masterful job of portraying himself as a victim.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Freeman is immature and Schiano was an AWFUL fit personality wise and never made it work with Freeman. Under the "inmates rule the asylum" rules of Morris Freeman was a 60+% passer and looked like he had potential. After Schiano took over and put the screws into him for discipline all of a sudden he's in the 50s then the 40s this season.

It's obvious the the personality mismatch completely soured any potential working relationship between the two which speaks volumes about them both. Freeman doesn't like a heavy hand and Schiano is incapable of altering his style to fit professional egos. A divorce allows Freeman to, hopefully for his sake, find a better fit mentally and for Bucs to separate themselves from a situation that was only going to become worse and fully split the locker room.

The fact that Schiano believes 6 wins saves his job is an outright farce but the the Pewter Report and SI both ran articles that paint a rather poor picture of the Bucs and not just about Freeman.

http://www.pewterreport.com/index.ph...t=item&id=9276

Article goes into a TON of detail on the situation including some major highlights like... Schiano tapes HIS OWN SIDELINE during games so he can single out and punish anyone who laughs or horse around.

Gawd Schiano is making the No-Fun-League even less fun.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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Unless Raheem Morris becomes a HC again, I highly doubt Freeman will find another HC that's in tune with his personality and punctuality.

Good luck with that Josh.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Nice link, Trogdor. Thanks.

Freeman clearly has issues. Hopefully he gets them corrected b/c I still think he can be a very good QB. It all confirms what I felt was going wrong in Tampa, tbh. I think Freeman needs a middle-ground type of coach that will push him, keep him on point and improving, but isn't a jackass like Schiano seems to be.

Schiano is basically an even more obnoxious version of the "old" Tom Coughlin. NFL players are professionals. Treating them like adolescents that will misbehave any given change is totally unacceptable. Schiano will figure it out, same as Coughlin did. The only real question is whether or not he gets the opportunity to improve with second and perhaps 3rd chances.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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As easy as it is to jump on someone in this situation, there's just so much that we'll never know about the specifics of the way things went down there. It's very likely there's blame to be laid at the feet of both parties. Freeman clearly didn't buy into what Schiano was trying to do...but some of the things in that article are a little crazy. How much of that is true and how much of it is Buccaneers players mad they don't have their old coach to party with after games is hard to say. Even still, it's Schiano's job to get everyone on board regardless of the circumstance.

Regardless of how this all went down, I think both parties lose here. I still think Freeman is an attractive rehabilitation project for a team without the draft capitol to take a quarterback. That might have been worth an asset before the season started. They had an entire year to see if this thing was going to work out and we were hearing that it didn't look like it would before the start of the season even. A smart organization would have assessed the situation and found the best path forward. Tampa didn't do that.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
As easy as it is to jump on someone in this situation, there's just so much that we'll never know about the specifics of the way things went down there. It's very likely there's blame to be laid at the feet of both parties. Freeman clearly didn't buy into what Schiano was trying to do...but some of the things in that article are a little crazy. How much of that is true and how much of it is Buccaneers players mad they don't have their old coach to party with after games is hard to say. Even still, it's Schiano's job to get everyone on board regardless of the circumstance.

Regardless of how this all went down, I think both parties lose here. I still think Freeman is an attractive rehabilitation project for a team without the draft capitol to take a quarterback. That might have been worth an asset before the season started. They had an entire year to see if this thing was going to work out and we were hearing that it didn't look like it would before the start of the season even. A smart organization would have assessed the situation and found the best path forward. Tampa didn't do that.
It's that. You don't think Donald Penn was clubbing with both of them? Of course the players love Freeman. Freeman was clubbing with them having a great time.

Little do these idiot players realize, that won't help them win games. I have friends that I love that I'd hate to work with. Freeman is that guy.

I take player opinions very lightly bc they're all idiots for the most part.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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It's that. You don't think Donald Penn was clubbing with both of them? Of course the players love Freeman. Freeman was clubbing with them having a great time.

Little do these idiot players realize, that won't help them win games. I have friends that I love that I'd hate to work with. Freeman is that guy.

I take player opinions very lightly bc they're all idiots for the most part.
Yeah . . . Revis even made comments about how crazy Schiano is. He wasn't there partying with any of them.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
As easy as it is to jump on someone in this situation, there's just so much that we'll never know about the specifics of the way things went down there. It's very likely there's blame to be laid at the feet of both parties. Freeman clearly didn't buy into what Schiano was trying to do...but some of the things in that article are a little crazy. How much of that is true and how much of it is Buccaneers players mad they don't have their old coach to party with after games is hard to say. Even still, it's Schiano's job to get everyone on board regardless of the circumstance.

Regardless of how this all went down, I think both parties lose here. I still think Freeman is an attractive rehabilitation project for a team without the draft capitol to take a quarterback. That might have been worth an asset before the season started. They had an entire year to see if this thing was going to work out and we were hearing that it didn't look like it would before the start of the season even. A smart organization would have assessed the situation and found the best path forward. Tampa didn't do that.
Absolutely. All three sides failed in this one. Freeman flopped. Schiano will have to learn that treating men like men is the best way to get them to buy into your ways. The Bucs brass should certainly have seen this coming and made personnel moves that didn't result in waiving a QB that is still better than a few starters right now.

Picard knows all and gives it a
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Freeman is a dumbass. I hope the Raiders don't consider him....I'd rather roll with Pryor.

Kbuc5 has got to be one of the biggest homers on the boards atm.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Freeman is a dumbass. I hope the Raiders don't consider him....I'd rather roll with Pryor.

Kbuc5 has got to be one of the biggest homers on the boards atm.
He certainly seems like he needs time to pull his head out of his ass. I'd think a team like Chicago or Arizona would be prime candidates so he can sit and have time to get himself right.

I do think he's better than the starters for a few teams, though. The Raiders aren't one.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Freeman is immature and Schiano was an AWFUL fit personality wise and never made it work with Freeman. Under the "inmates rule the asylum" rules of Morris Freeman was a 60+% passer and looked like he had potential. After Schiano took over and put the screws into him for discipline all of a sudden he's in the 50s then the 40s this season.

It's obvious the the personality mismatch completely soured any potential working relationship between the two which speaks volumes about them both. Freeman doesn't like a heavy hand and Schiano is incapable of altering his style to fit professional egos. A divorce allows Freeman to, hopefully for his sake, find a better fit mentally and for Bucs to separate themselves from a situation that was only going to become worse and fully split the locker room.

The fact that Schiano believes 6 wins saves his job is an outright farce but the the Pewter Report and SI both ran articles that paint a rather poor picture of the Bucs and not just about Freeman.

http://www.pewterreport.com/index.ph...t=item&id=9276

Article goes into a TON of detail on the situation including some major highlights like... Schiano tapes HIS OWN SIDELINE during games so he can single out and punish anyone who laughs or horse around.

Gawd Schiano is making the No-Fun-League even less fun.
"That’s why when the Bucs tried to sell some national reporters, NFL Network’s Michael Silver and Ian Rapaport, who don’t cover the Bucs on a daily basis, that Freeman had lost the locker room – instead of Schiano losing it – it was laughable. Say what you want about his quarterback play, Freeman is well liked and well respected in the locker room. He’s a great teammate, and left tackle Donald Penn spoke up in his defense on Wednesday to reiterate that point."



This is what i've been saying, before Schiano got there there was no issues with Freeman's character and he was considered a hard worker and great teammate. Schiano gets to town and does not like the laid back nature of Freeman, and instead of just benching him because of poor play he starts leaking info on missed meetings and the drug testing to make Freeman look bad and his decision to bench Freeman right.
They went as far as to tell Freeman to not show up to a team meeting once he was benched to make it look like to the rest of the team he was quiting on them. WTF kind of organization does that??

I never said Freeman didn't have his role in this circus, but it's Schiano's fault it ever got to this point.
But somehow I am a homer. Whatever, guess there are a lot of Rutgers fans here. We will see how people feel about Schiano after the season when this team has only a win or two.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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This is what i've been saying, before Schiano got there there was no issues with Freeman's character and he was considered a hard worker and great teammate. Schiano gets to town and does not like the laid back nature of Freeman, and instead of just benching him because of poor play he starts leaking info on missed meetings and the drug testing to make Freeman look bad and his decision to bench Freeman right.
They went as far as to tell Freeman to not show up to a team meeting once he was benched to make it look like to the rest of the team he was quiting on them. WTF kind of organization does that??

I never said Freeman didn't have his role in this circus, but it's Schiano's fault it ever got to this point.
But somehow I am a homer. Whatever, guess there are a lot of Rutgers fans here. We will see how people feel about Schiano after the season when this team has only a win or two.


What I find comical..... is that you just regurgitate what I hear on 620 and 98.7. Almost verbatim.


Let me tell you something. Body language never lies. And on the bench, Josh has almost always been alone. He's never rallying the OL, talking shop with the WR's and the RB's.... well they just are too busy with the OL. Schiano, meanwhile, seems well received, moreso by the defense honestly, but he doesn't seem to be the pariah the media is willing to lead you to believe. And boy, are they leading you. Scott Reynolds has been a Freeman homer since before Day 1. Duemig has a hate on for Schiano because he won't coddle Steve like Raheem did. Greg's got no time for that steaming pile, and I don't blame him. Ira, Gary and Rick have done more to run, or try to run, coaches in this town than any other I can think of. For a small market, these tools act like we're ******* Los Angeles of Tokyo.

As fans, were better off sorting out the raw information, and building our own conclusions, because we've got some of the worst sports personalities in the country here. There's about 3 in this town that make any sense whatsoever, and nobody listens to them very much. Shame.


As far as Freeman, how many players have gotten irked seeing him throw a pick and come off the field grinning like a 13-year old who just got to second base? I know I have. And if I've noticed, they have too.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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I will never understand why anyone thought an average college coach would be good in the NFL
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Let me ax you guys this:

If you HAD to choose between these guys to start some games (let's say either do to serious injury to the starter or you had to field an expansion team, very hypothetically), which of these starting-failures do you choose:

Check that. Just say you were starting an expansion team in Birmingham, and you drafted a QB round one, but were going to take one of these guys as an expansion pick.

Matt Flynn
Kevin Kolb
Josh Freeman
Rex Grossman
Chad Henne
Brady Quinn
Chuck Whitehurst


How would you rank these guys?
Which have a chance to succeed with the right staff and players around them?
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
MassNole
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Let me ax you guys this:

If you HAD to choose between these guys to start some games (let's say either do to serious injury to the starter or you had to field an expansion team, very hypothetically), which of these starting-failures do you choose:

Check that. Just say you were starting an expansion team in Birmingham, and you drafted a QB round one, but were going to take one of these guys as an expansion pick.



How would you rank these guys?
Which have a chance to succeed with the right staff and players around them?
Freeman
Grossman
Henne
Kolb
Whitehurst
Flynn
Quinn
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
MassNole
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I will never understand why anyone thought an average college coach would be good in the NFL
A competent coach should get the results he did at Rutgers by virtue of access to local talent and the weak conference they played in. A good coach would be able to win the Big American East with what he had available to him at Rutgers. He is great at developing talent and is a solid head coach. I get he "turned Rutgers around" but when UConn has more conference titles than Rutgers I can't understand how he got an NFL offer.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Let me ax you guys this:

If you HAD to choose between these guys to start some games (let's say either do to serious injury to the starter or you had to field an expansion team, very hypothetically), which of these starting-failures do you choose:

Check that. Just say you were starting an expansion team in Birmingham, and you drafted a QB round one, but were going to take one of these guys as an expansion pick.

Matt Flynn
Kevin Kolb
Josh Freeman
Rex Grossman
Chad Henne
Brady Quinn
Chuck Whitehurst


How would you rank these guys?
Which have a chance to succeed with the right staff and players around them?
Josh Freeman and Chad Henne. That's the list.

IMO your starting QB can't be failing drug tests. But hell Brett Favre had alcohol and prescription drug problems on and off throughout his career.

I know Freeman isn't that level of talent, but still.

Schiano's problem in running Freeman out of town is that he doesn't have a viable alternative to replace him.
I'm sure there have been moments in the last few years where Steelers and Bears coaches wanted to replace their QBs Roethlisberger and Cutler respectively,(for different reasons), but the question remains..with whom??

I don't think Schiano is the genius who found out that Josh Freeman actually sucks as an NFL QB. This was a personality clash and a statement move by a new HC to shock his team that there's a new sheriff in town and B.S. won't be tolerated.

Somehow I still think Schiano gets at least one more season.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
SchizophrenicBatman
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Let me ax you guys this:

If you HAD to choose between these guys to start some games (let's say either do to serious injury to the starter or you had to field an expansion team, very hypothetically), which of these starting-failures do you choose:

Check that. Just say you were starting an expansion team in Birmingham, and you drafted a QB round one, but were going to take one of these guys as an expansion pick.

Matt Flynn
Kevin Kolb
Josh Freeman
Rex Grossman
Chad Henne
Brady Quinn
Chuck Whitehurst


How would you rank these guys?
Which have a chance to succeed with the right staff and players around them?
Give me Flynn. His presence seems to inspire young QBs.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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Give me Flynn. His presence seems to inspire young QBs.
Nothing wrong with being the modern day Steve DeBerg.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Let me ax you guys this:

If you HAD to choose between these guys to start some games (let's say either do to serious injury to the starter or you had to field an expansion team, very hypothetically), which of these starting-failures do you choose:

Check that. Just say you were starting an expansion team in Birmingham, and you drafted a QB round one, but were going to take one of these guys as an expansion pick.

Matt Flynn
Kevin Kolb
Josh Freeman
Rex Grossman
Chad Henne
Brady Quinn
Chuck Whitehurst


How would you rank these guys?
Which have a chance to succeed with the right staff and players around them?
I choose death.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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I choose death.
You're just upset Tavaris Jackson and Joe Webb weren't two of the choices. Probably should have been actually.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
DeadEagle
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Check that. Just say you were starting an expansion team in Birmingham, and you drafted a QB round one, but were going to take one of these guys as an expansion pick.

Matt Flynn
Kevin Kolb
Josh Freeman
Rex Grossman
Chad Henne
Brady Quinn
Chuck Whitehurst


How would you rank these guys?
Which have a chance to succeed with the right staff and players around them?


Honestly.... none of 'em.


I'd find a way to get TJ Yates from the Texans, if I had to wrangle a QB before drafting a blue chip prospect. But even he's not ideal, just a guy with potential.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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A competent coach should get the results he did at Rutgers by virtue of access to local talent and the weak conference they played in. A good coach would be able to win the Big American East with what he had available to him at Rutgers. He is great at developing talent and is a solid head coach. I get he "turned Rutgers around" but when UConn has more conference titles than Rutgers I can't understand how he got an NFL offer.
What he did to turn around Rutgers football was nothing short of a miracle. Yes we have a lot of talent in state but no one ever got them to stay because the program was in such shambles. His game day coaching was not good at first but he got much better over the years showing improvement. He is excellent with a D.
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