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Old 09-30-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Bey bey, dez, cruz and Gordon are all better than Andre Johnson.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Eh, they are now because of injuries and age. Don't think they were as talented physically and as receivers as Andre was though.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Josh Gordon is not as talented as Randy Moss was.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Bey bey, dez, cruz and Gordon are all better than Andre Johnson.
Hope not serious about Heyward Bey?
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Bey Bey is Demaryious Thomas.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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You guys are pretending people weren't sucking off Kenny Britt when he blew up for a few games too? Lol. Short term memory.
Seriously, who cares? It doesn't make what you said any less ridiculous. Do you realize his best season ever was 700 yards and 9 TD's? So somehow you see fit that a guy in his 5th year should be mentioned as a guy who Gordon should hope to be as good as one day? You really want people to take you serious after listing a guy who has never got more yards then Gordon got as a 21 year older, as somehow a superior WR? I could have picked more but putting Britt on there is hilarious especially for the argument your trying to make.



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If you're saying he can be a number 1, that's fair, I just don't think he's that "special" or has unbelievable talent. I think a lot of guys are pretty comparable, which kind of takes that word away.

I'm not the one making misinformed statements, maybe you should just choose your words more carefully. I was against the notion that he could be a dominant and special receiver. If special means #1 receiver, that's different. I thought the word special... meant special, lol.

Except you never said exactly why you don't think he's special. Instead you just said people overrate troubled WR's and somehow you felt that was an argument against Gordon. You didn't say he runs terrible routes, or doesn't create seperation, just that troubled WR's in general get overrated. Cool story bro. You can have different opinions but you don't even have one about Gordon, because if you did watch him play you would notice that the things he does a guy his size shouldn't be able to do.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Eh, they are now because of injuries and age. Don't think they were as talented physically and as receivers as Andre was though.
Well yeah, before now Gordon was a rookie or not in the NFL. He's been better than AJ since Gordon's been in the NFL. AJ at his peak was better but that was some time ago.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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Seriously, who cares? It doesn't make what you said any less ridiculous. Do you realize his best season ever was 700 yards and 9 TD's? So somehow you see fit that a guy in his 5th year should be mentioned as a guy who Gordon should hope to be as good as one day? You really want people to take you serious after listing a guy who has never got more yards then Gordon got as a 21 year older, as somehow a superior WR? I could have picked more but putting Britt on there is hilarious especially for the argument your trying to make.






Except you never said exactly why you don't think he's special. Instead you just said people overrate troubled WR's and somehow you felt that was an argument against Gordon. You didn't say he runs terrible routes, or doesn't create seperation, just that troubled WR's in general get overrated. Cool story bro. You can have different opinions but you don't even have one about Gordon, because if you did watch him play you would notice that the things he does a guy his size shouldn't be able to do.

I don't think he does anything at a "special" level. 6'2-3 and 220-225 is great size, 4.5 speed is very nice, but not mind blowing or unheard of. I don't think he has Larry Fitzgerald's ability to go up and get the ball, I don't think he's in the upper tier of route runners. I don't see what he does that separates him talent wise from 10-15 other guys. Maybe it's semantics. I think he's got a lot of talent, but I don't think he's upper tier in terms of physical talent (the very top shelf), nor is he in the top tier of in terms of route running or body control. His hands don't stand out as super rare. He's really not missing anything either I suppose, but to throw the word "special" around, I'd have to think someone does something on a special level, that very very few others can do.

Less gifted receivers have been dominant though, so I guess we'll have to see how his skill level progresses.

I'm still laughing at how up in arms you are about it, but what is the most hilarious is how you keep bringing up Kenny Britt, like you didn't jump the gun on him the same way. I didn't say Britt was better than him, I didn't say ANY of those guys were better actually, I was listing off guys that people would call a special talent, or have been called special talents at some point.

YOU yourself said that Kenny Britt could be like TO, and the sky is the limit. Now it's funny that I mentioned him as a guy that was deemed special on this website, and people are saying "I don't think anyone thought Britt was special"? Put your foot in your mouth again plz.

My whole point was that I feel like the position as a whole seems to be a bit overvalued, but especially the headcases. This coming from a former WR.

Chill out dude, I don't have to break it down piece by piece for you every time, do I?
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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He was a legit high end #1 as a rookie, with Branden Weeden as his QB. There's actually a lot of really good weapons in the NFL and you're right, he's not Megatron or AJG, but that doesn't mean he's not an excellent weapon who's like a more explosive Brandon Marshall.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he does anything at a "special" level. 6'2-3 and 220-225 is great size, 4.5 speed is very nice, but not mind blowing or unheard of. I don't think he has Larry Fitzgerald's ability to go up and get the ball, I don't think he's in the upper tier of route runners. I don't see what he does that separates him talent wise from 10-15 other guys. Maybe it's semantics. I think he's got a lot of talent, but I don't think he's upper tier in terms of physical talent (the very top shelf), nor is he in the top tier of in terms of route running or body control. His hands don't stand out as super rare. He's really not missing anything either I suppose, but to throw the word "special" around, I'd have to think someone does something on a special level, that very very few others can do.

Less gifted receivers have been dominant though, so I guess we'll have to see how his skill level progresses.

Here is what 1 NFL exec said about him prior to the draft:

Quote:
One NFL executive told ESPN's Adam Schefter that Browns supplemental rookie Josh Gordon possesses "Randy Moss-like talents."


Another called Gordon a "faster Brandon Marshall." Schefter acknowledges "major questions" about Gordon's maturity, determination, and decision making. The NFL clearly was high on Gordon's on-field ability, even if the Moss and Marshall comparisons are over the top. The Browns believe they've formed their three-wide set of the future with Gordon, Greg Little, and Travis Benjamin. Jul. 18 - 3:07 pm et

Source: ESPN Insider

Obviously take that for what it's worth, it's just an opinion but one would like to think Randy Moss comparisons under any context means a guy is pretty special. Also, maybe you have a different definition of special, but as I pointed out to you which you glossed over already, with how productive he was as a rookie with all things considered I'd say he's a pretty special player. He just was a supplemental pick and he plays for the Browns so in turn that's made some people want to underrate him from the get go. I read this stuff well before I saw him play a down, I just think things like this, plus the production we have seen, with the QB play, says a lot.




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I'm still laughing at how up in arms you are about it, but what is the most hilarious is how you keep bringing up Kenny Britt, like you didn't jump the gun on him the same way. I didn't say Britt was better than him, I didn't say ANY of those guys were better actually, I was listing off guys that people would call a special talent, or have been called special talents at some point.

YOU yourself said that Kenny Britt could be like TO, and the sky is the limit. Now it's funny that I mentioned him as a guy that was deemed special on this website, and people are saying "I don't think anyone thought Britt was special"? Put your foot in your mouth again plz.

My whole point was that I feel like the position as a whole seems to be a bit overvalued, but especially the headcases. This coming from a former WR.

Chill out dude, I don't have to break it down piece by piece for you every time, do I?

Actually not up in arms about it at all, but I forgot how on the interwebz if you make a terrible argument and someone calls you on it then they are either mad, butthurt, or some form of angry.


And your talking about years ago with Kenny Britt, you are the one who still listed on him and had the nerve to put him on the same list as guys like AJG and Dez and think there was nothing wrong with that list. Whatever your reasoning was for putting it together didn't make very much sense putting all those guys together. Did I think Britt could be a dominant WR in the league at one point? I sure did. But how is that putting my foot in my mouth?


So if you liked a QB coming into the draft and you thought he'd be a pro bowler but he ended up a bust somehow you put your foot in your mouth? That makes no sense, I was calling it like I saw it at the time and anyone acting like Britt is a stud WR is just trolling. Does he has great physical talents? Of course he does, and the sky was the limit, but last time I checked Britt isn't the first, nor will he be the last average player that people once said "the sky is the limit" for.


Again your argument(whatever it even was) has never centered around Gordon. First it was all troubled WR's are overrated, then it moved on to what people thought about Britt 2-3 years ago, and somehow this all means what in relation to what type of player Gordon is or will be? Absolutely nothing. I thought the sky was the limit for Mike Jenkins after his rookie year as well, I guess any CB that comes out after him that has elite traits is gonna go on to be an average player right? Or does your argument only work one way?
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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You stretched what I said to mean many different things because you were butthurt.

My argument was that troubled receivers get a bigger boost in how good people think they are. Brandon Marshall, TO, Kenny Britt, Keyshawn Johnson(Out of sight, out of mind, and these guys are ALWAYS in sight and on the mind), and just about every talented headcase I can think of was propped up more than they should have been. that was the point. Not that Josh Gordon can't be a good player. Not that anyone in particular was better than Gordon. Not that Gordon didn't have an impressive rookie season.

So now Dez Bryant and Josh Gordon both have been compared to Randy Moss. How is that not evidence of what I'm saying? Neither is even in the stratosphere of Moss's talent. I'm sorry, if Gordon's talent is being compared to Moss's, he's overrated. Plain and simple. He isn't that talented physically or technically.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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You stretched what I said to mean many different things because you were butthurt.

My argument was that troubled receivers get a bigger boost in how good people think they are. Brandon Marshall, TO, Kenny Britt, Keyshawn Johnson(Out of sight, out of mind, and these guys are ALWAYS in sight and on the mind), and just about every talented headcase I can think of was propped up more than they should have been. that was the point. Not that Josh Gordon can't be a good player. Not that anyone in particular was better than Gordon. Not that Gordon didn't have an impressive rookie season.

So now Dez Bryant and Josh Gordon both have been compared to Randy Moss. How is that not evidence of what I'm saying? Neither is even in the stratosphere of Moss's talent. I'm sorry, if Gordon's talent is being compared to Moss's, he's overrated. Plain and simple. He isn't that talented physically or technically.

We can throw all that hypothetical crap out the window. I've already pointed out a few times that the rookie season he had, under all those circumstances, was highly impressive to me for a 21 year older and it was a clear indicator he's got a bright future. If you disagree and brush that off as something any number of WR's would be able to do that's perfectly fine even though it's not very logical.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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He could have a bright future. Never said he couldn't. You sort of made my point for me though. Talented receiver with some off field issues = OMG RANDY MOSS TALENT. That whole thing wouldn't have went on so long if you hadn't put words in my mouth because you felt like I slighted him by saying I think he and other talented headcases get overrated. Overrated=/=omgterrible.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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So just because some gifted WRs with off the field issues are over-rated means Gordon and Dez have to be over-rated? Seems legit.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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That's not what I said. They're overrated because they're being compared to Randy Moss, talent-wise. Do you believe that comparison has any merit? I don't, I think it's partly the off field stuff that gets it brought up.

I dunno why talented headcases get their talent overstated. Maybe people in sports like to believe their guy can be the very best if these small things weren't holding him back. Maybe it's the redemption thing. I dunno, I just feel like it's a trend. Maybe it's just that negative publicity is still publicity, and it just leads to getting more people to watch and see their talent more than quiet and unassuming guys that are on their level.

So yea... stop twisting it. I think Gordon's level of talent has been overrated if people think he's as talented as Moss, or even TO. It's simple as that. If you don't think he's that talented, you aren't overrating him to me, but some people are saying he's that good, and I think it's wrong, flat out.

Maybe I'm wrong and headcases don't get overrated any more than other talented players. Maybe I just notice it more. Just seems like something that happens to me, in every sport.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Blah blah blah, I'm not really reading peoples' posts for content
For the umpteenth time, the point is not that Josh Gordon is as talented as Randy Moss. Maybe somebody said it, but one person comparing him to Randy Moss does not make him overrated, because it's only one person comparing him to Randy Moss. What's overwhelmingly been the point is that he's a very young receiver with all the physical measurables you would want in a "prototype number one wide receiver," and thus far in his career he has lived up to expectations. Meaning he had a very solid rookie year, and then exploded back onto the season with physically dominating play this year. He looks the way he should look at this point in his career. He is developing as expected for someone of his natural gifts. That is why people are saying it would be dumb to trade him away for another prospect who would simply go through the same thing. Obviously, the Browns are turned off by his off-field reputation, but that doesn't make him overrated; it just makes him more of a risk.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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All that's well and good, but I didn't address any of that. The first line IS the point, because that's what I was speaking on, and then everyone started attacking my posts with a bunch of points that I didn't dispute. I don't really feel that it's only one person that thinks he's more talented than he really is, but whatever.

Remind me not to say anything negative about NFLDC favorites.

Talk about not reading for content, very ironic, since people keep trying to hammer home some point that I really wasn't arguing against.

This is obviously going nowhere, so we can just end it. Some people think Josh Gordon's talent holds up against anyone. I don't, thus I think some people overrate him. If this isn't how you feel, there's really no point in addressing my posts.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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This thread has been painful to follow. Oofta.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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If it doesn't thunderstorm tonight you guys should get a good look at Hoyer/Gordon/Cameron because they will be passing quite a bit. Gordon reminds me of Moss in the way he moves, he doesn't look like it takes much effort to get places. Sort of like he glides, it's weird.

Cameron on the other hand reminds me of Jimmy Graham (for obvious reasons) hopefully he keeps it up.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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He could have a bright future. Never said he couldn't. You sort of made my point for me though. Talented receiver with some off field issues = OMG RANDY MOSS TALENT. That whole thing wouldn't have went on so long if you hadn't put words in my mouth because you felt like I slighted him by saying I think he and other talented headcases get overrated. Overrated=/=omgterrible.

I just want you to make some sense, or at least make a coherent argument. You've attempted to make 4-5 different cases and each time you've been all over the place. You started this thread off trying to discredit Josh Gordon, and your way of doing so was generalizing WR's as a whole while completely ignoring anything that Gordon does well. I asked you what he doesn't do well or what you didn't like and instead we got off on making a list that featured WR's who hadn't even produced as well as Gordon yet that was still somehow supporting evidence.


But no, your probably right. Guys used to think Kenny Britt was good so that's obviously a great argument as to why Gordon won't be good.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:33 AM    (permalink
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You're really reaching here.

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Gordon is overrated in this thread I think.. not even considering he might miss a whole season on his next slip. Is it just me, or does it seem like troubled receivers get overrated? Everyone with an attitude issue or off the field issue seems to be overvalued, maybe because we hear his name more than we should otherwise.
That was my original post, you're the one that took it as a slight, because you obviously must think he is as talented as guys like Moss, Johnson, TO, Andre, AJ Green, Larry, or whoever else people liken him too.

I don't know what's so difficult about the post of other guys that "aren't as good as him". those guys on that list are talented players as well, Some have produced at much higher levels, some haven't. The point was that if he is a "special" talent, so are these players, because they were all either comparably talented, or better really. Even Kenny Britt, who flamed out, was a talented player, whose talent you likened to TO. Listing those players had about 0 to do with production, and more to do with how gifted and talented they are/were as players. Read plz, don't just grasp for straws to force an argument.

You are the one that took it as a slight to his rookie season, or how good he is, or whatever, because you're sensitive and butthurt for some reason. All I said was he seemed to be overrated in this thread, because people were treating him like he's a Moss level talent, and frankly, he isn't. It's not that he isn't good, it's not a specific skill that he lacks that I don't like, but he's not in the top tier of WR's, unless you broaden that spectrum a lot. There is a clear separation between he and someone like AJ Green, who doesn't even stack up to the very top of the pile in terms of prospects.

Then I posed a question about talented and troubled receivers.

It really was simple, you made this into something else. If you don't get it by now, I don't know what to tell you. I think you want me to point out something specific so that we can argue in circles about that, but the point of my post flew way over your head.

And I never said Josh Gordon won't be good, so why do you keep pretending I'm making a case against Gordon being a good player and dragging this out? You're either being completely ignorant for trolling purposes, or you have serious reading comprehension issues.
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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I read that the 49ers are looking into a trade for Gordon and may give up a second round pick.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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I'll be **** pissed if that's all it takes to get done and the Patriots aren't involved.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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I read that the 49ers are looking into a trade for Gordon and may give up a second round pick.
I read that as well but I don't think they pull the trigger on said trade.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Most teams in the NFL should be calling them right now and offering their second.
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