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Old 10-07-2013, 06:32 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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********. He doesn't have Peyton's supporting cast here, and he rarely has an actual run game.
Does "a lot of other QBs" mean "every QB" to you? Stop trying to be a know-it-all. That's never been a strength of yours.
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Does "a lot of other QBs" mean "every QB" to you? Stop trying to be a know-it-all. That's never been a strength of yours.
I'm not being a know-it-all, you're just a spoiled Cowboys fan who is way too hard on Tony Romo. You wanted to draft Matt Barkley to play over him at one point. Romo is a damn good QB who makes mistakes that are heightened by the fact that he plays for the Dallas Cowboys.
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Tony Romo is a disappointing QB when compared to a very select handful of QBs that he shouldn't be compared to.

It is frustrating, because it's hard to be a playoff favorite with his level of QB, but it's also very hard to justify getting rid of him.

I do think in a lot of seasons, the Cowboys were overrated in terms of how talented the team was, because they had a lot of talent at flashy positions, and that caused expectations to be too high.

They've given him a ton of weapons in his tenure, but the Cowboys offense has generally done very well, so that's really what you ask for.

I actually think Romo is good enough to win a superbowl with a team that is built strong in the trenches, but isn't always stocked with a ton of weapons. He can make plays out of nothing sometimes.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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Romo was terrific the other day and, before I go any further, I just want to say that was one of the best football games I've ever seen. That was QB play at its pinnacle (aided by terrible defense on both sides of the ball). It reminded me of Curt Warner vs Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs a few years back. With a similar disastrous ending by Rodgers ultimately defining his performance.

I really can't get over how great Romo was. He's been amazing this year. He was a drive away from breaking the single game passing record against Peyton Manning. He came up huge for his team. For them to even be in that position, then the Cowboys final drive happened.

It lasted two plays. Look at them both.

Play 1 - He took a bad sack on first down where he held the ball way too long - Dug himself a nice little hole.

Play 2 - He allows the pocket to collapse in on him during a three man passrush, fails to hit his wide open check down, and, instead, decides to throw over the middle to a covered rookie tight end (Gavin Escobar). He steps on his linemen's foot, stumbles around and still manages to throw an accurate pass - to a blanketed tight end. Disregard the fact that the idiot linebacker (watch him talk, you'll get my point) made a spectacular diving interception. Why? Why take that chance? Why make it so hard on yourself?


If that interception didn't take place, I have little doubt in my mind that the third down play would have been just as worse / costly. Soon as he was sacked on first down, I said, "just don't turn it over this close to their own endzone". I wanted to see overtime. You turn it over there, its automatically game over. I wasn't even thinking about the passing record. I was thinking about the game going into OT. Manning wouldn't need to move the ball at all to be in field goal range.

But you really can sense it. You can see start to take shape. The collapse is inevitable. After first down my thought was for him not screw up the game. There's a reason for that.

Why? Because he's trying to do too much. He doesn't take the easy throw for the easy 5-10 yard gain. Instead he tries for the 12 yard throw into blanket coverage. It comes down to handling pressure. Sometimes you have to rely on your teammates. Making the easy throw is sometimes the best decision. Taking what the defense gives you. Romo presses and tries to be spectacular. It's hard to be spectacular for 60 minutes.

If you look - or remember the drives that garnered Tom Brady the Joe Montana comparisons - then you'll see a QB that hardly ever makes a difficult throw. Brady constantly hits the check down, moving the chains, 10 simple yards at a time. Then Brady makes the one throw to the open receiver that seals the game. Well, not seals it, but sets up his kicker to seal it. They're not gaudy drives where the QB is doing it all - putting the team on his shoulders; overcoming this great adversity. They make the game simple. Sometimes greatness - or clutch - is just taking the simple read or the simple throw and making it. Romo never takes the simple route.

If you try to be spectacular all the time, then you'll fail in spectacular fashion.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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I do sometimes wonder just how spectacularly romo would fail if he ever played in a Super Bowl.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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All this hate on Romo. I don't understand why. He might throw a bad pick here and there, but this guy is a top 6 QB in the NFL.

As a Bucs fan I'd give up what looks to be a top 5 pick for Romo in a second. Less than a second. And I'd be happy about it.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
Romo was terrific the other day and, before I go any further, I just want to say that was one of the best football games I've ever seen. That was QB play at its pinnacle (aided by terrible defense on both sides of the ball). It reminded me of Curt Warner vs Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs a few years back. With a similar disastrous ending by Rodgers ultimately defining his performance.

I really can't get over how great Romo was. He's been amazing this year. He was a drive away from breaking the single game passing record against Peyton Manning. He came up huge for his team. For them to even be in that position, then the Cowboys final drive happened.

It lasted two plays. Look at them both.

Play 1 - He took a bad sack on first down where he held the ball way too long - Dug himself a nice little hole.

Play 2 - He allows the pocket to collapse in on him during a three man passrush, fails to hit his wide open check down, and, instead, decides to throw over the middle to a covered rookie tight end (Gavin Escobar). He steps on his linemen's foot, stumbles around and still manages to throw an accurate pass - to a blanketed tight end. Disregard the fact that the idiot linebacker (watch him talk, you'll get my point) made a spectacular diving interception. Why? Why take that chance? Why make it so hard on yourself?


If that interception didn't take place, I have little doubt in my mind that the third down play would have been just as worse / costly. Soon as he was sacked on first down, I said, "just don't turn it over this close to their own endzone". I wanted to see overtime. You turn it over there, its automatically game over. I wasn't even thinking about the passing record. I was thinking about the game going into OT. Manning wouldn't need to move the ball at all to be in field goal range.

But you really can sense it. You can see start to take shape. The collapse is inevitable. After first down my thought was for him not screw up the game. There's a reason for that.

Why? Because he's trying to do too much. He doesn't take the easy throw for the easy 5-10 yard gain. Instead he tries for the 12 yard throw into blanket coverage. It comes down to handling pressure. Sometimes you have to rely on your teammates. Making the easy throw is sometimes the best decision. Taking what the defense gives you. Romo presses and tries to be spectacular. It's hard to be spectacular for 60 minutes.

If you look - or remember the drives that garnered Tom Brady the Joe Montana comparisons - then you'll see a QB that hardly ever makes a difficult throw. Brady constantly hits the check down, moving the chains, 10 simple yards at a time. Then Brady makes the one throw to the open receiver that seals the game. Well, not seals it, but sets up his kicker to seal it. They're not gaudy drives where the QB is doing it all - putting the team on his shoulders; overcoming this great adversity. They make the game simple. Sometimes greatness - or clutch - is just taking the simple read or the simple throw and making it. Romo never takes the simple route.

If you try to be spectacular all the time, then you'll fail in spectacular fashion.
can't give you rep, but I don't think I could've said it better.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:10 AM    (permalink
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There is a combination of issues with Romo that has diminished his "QB appearance" through his career. But in general most are not his fault.

1. Playing in Dallas to begin with. If he was playing in Buffalo or Jacksonville the mistakes would not be amplified to the level they are. He plays for Dallas who gets unfair or not more prime time and National games then most. Also NFC East all 3 other teams are big market so the stories get amplified there. Because of this some of his legitimate collapses or "collapses" have happened against those teams. Also some of the Dallas teams have had very high/super bowl expectations going into the season the last few years.

2. The ghost of Roger Staubauch. People see glimpses of the great Dallas quarterback in him. A strong accurate arm, with great in pocket quickness. Really Roger is someone that people first used the term clutch and a master of the comeback . Even Hail Mary is a term that started due to a Staubach play.

And to an extent Aikman's shadow looms some. Nationally and locally he is seen as a top 10 Qb all time. (( Something I personally don't believe but for the sake of this debate he is)) There is a standard that is set much higher in towns like Dallas, Denver, San Francisco vs towns like Detroit, Philly or Carolina at what amazing quarterback play is.

3. Lack of career amazing single play. Like the Montana pass to Clark, Elway's dive into the endzone during the superbowl ect. There is nothing that just Stands out minus the broken ribs performance. But that really doesn't help him in his "lore"

Bottom line is this this. Is he a good Qb? yes, Hell i would take him on the Eagles now if I could. He has had his fair share of collapses but also is a very talented QB with a very good chance to win a Superbowl the next 3-4 years if Dallas can get a lil better on defense.


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Old 10-08-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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Schuab or Vince Young?
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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I love all the excuses for Romo, but the fact remains that he is at best a .500 QB who will rarely ever get his team above that level. He teases you with a suburb performance every once in a while but there is no consistency to his play and he just finds ways to lose. Yes, he puts up pretty stats but where are the wins???
Compare him to Brady who has no OL, no receivers and a weak defense but still wins and Romo comes out as what he is, a very mediocre QB who simply isn't mentally tough enough to ever be a consistent winner.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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To be fair to Romo and this is coming from a guy who just bashed him for 2 pages, is it really that big of a crime not to be Tom Brady?

Tom Brady is a top 5 qb of all time. In my opinion the 2nd greatest of all time. Not everyone is gonna be Tom Brady.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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I love all the excuses for Romo, but the fact remains that he is at best a .500 QB who will rarely ever get his team above that level. He teases you with a suburb performance every once in a while but there is no consistency to his play and he just finds ways to lose. Yes, he puts up pretty stats but where are the wins???
Compare him to Brady who has no OL, no receivers and a weak defense but still wins and Romo comes out as what he is, a very mediocre QB who simply isn't mentally tough enough to ever be a consistent winner.
Eh, I'm all for giving Brady as much credit as possible but to say he wins with no OL, no receivers and a bad defense is a bit misleading. Sure throughout his career all those things have happened, however never at the same time.

The Pats O-line and defense this year are pretty good. The last 4 or 5 years the receivers and O-line were good. Before that the defense was really good etc.

Honestly Romo has a harder job than Brady. Yes he has Dez and Witten but the O-line is bad and the defense is worse. I'm not a big Romo fan but he does be overly criticised IMO
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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The OL is actually pretty good this year. The defense is not, but he has a good offense around him.

I love that the Pats D is playing well this year. I was pushing hard for them in the offseason. I thought they had potential.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I love all the excuses for Romo, but the fact remains that he is at best a .500 QB who will rarely ever get his team above that level. He teases you with a suburb performance every once in a while but there is no consistency to his play and he just finds ways to lose. Yes, he puts up pretty stats but where are the wins???
Compare him to Brady who has no OL, no receivers and a weak defense but still wins and Romo comes out as what he is, a very mediocre QB who simply isn't mentally tough enough to ever be a consistent winner.
Except for 06, 07, 08, 09, and a career record of 57-41, well over .500.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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All this hate on Romo. I don't understand why. He might throw a bad pick here and there, but this guy is a top 6 QB in the NFL.

As a Bucs fan I'd give up what looks to be a top 5 pick for Romo in a second. Less than a second. And I'd be happy about it.
Sort of agree although i'd probably say he's more top 10 at the QB position. I think he's playing good football this year so not sure the comaprison to Matt Schaub here because he hasn't been very good at all.

I want to say about the Denver game that if your team scores 48 points you deserve to win the game.

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Old 10-08-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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I didn't read any post in here, I just want to say the thread title makes me angry.

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Old 10-08-2013, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Who has the most 4th quarter comebacks since 2011? Romo, nah that can't be true. He's a chocker.

And I love how Roger Staubach is brought up as Captain Comeback and clutch. Let's just ignore the fact that Romo had a .406 record in comeback situation compared to a .395 record of Stabauch. That doesn't include 2012 though when he was 5-3 in such situations which increases the record to.450. But yeah, Staubach is totally Captain Comeback while Romo is a bum in crunch time.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm not being a know-it-all, you're just a spoiled Cowboys fan who is way too hard on Tony Romo. You wanted to draft Matt Barkley to play over him at one point. Romo is a damn good QB who makes mistakes that are heightened by the fact that he plays for the Dallas Cowboys.
I wanted the #1 ranked QB prospect at the time to replace him yeah. Perspective helps when trying to make a point. Try it.

Romo is a good QB but he's terrible under pressure and the reason why he's hated is because he doesn't find ways to rise above the pressure and WIN. In the end, it's all about winning. He's got everything he needs on offense to be successful and we're seeing him take advantage of it this year. But in any loss, the excuses keep rolling in. ...he doesn't have a defense... poor playcalling... when will people acknowledge that he's a part of the blame?

It's not about him being overly hated and more open to criticism because he plays for the Cowboys. It's about realizing he is what he is. I've come to accept it. I've said over and over that he is a good "bus driver" but not a guy who can consistently carry a team on his back. Being a bus driver still requires you to be good. He's not a Top 10 QB, but he's not a bottom 10 QB either. He's good, but he's not great.

If the Cowboys can continue to build up his supporting cast, then sure, I think he can lead the bus and make the Cowboys a legitimate contender. Things need to be fixed some more though cause even though he has a good cast on offense, he still needs a better defensive cast... and let's not forget, he could need another change in coaches if that doesn't work out either. When EVERYTHING around him is perfect, then I think sure, why not???

Then again, what are we paying him $100M dollars for? When everything is perfect, even Mark Sanchez can win. lol
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Romo is a good QB but he's terrible under pressure


Romo has the most 4th quarter comebacks in the NFL over the last 3 years. Romo has the highest career 4th quarter passer rating among active quarterbacks. Romo has a higher winning percentage, better statistics, and more overall comebacks in 4th quarter comeback situations than the two other beloved Cowboys quarterbacks who are considered clutch (Aikman and Staubach).

But yeah, Romo is terrible under pressure. Don't let facts get in the way of your perception.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Romo has the most 4th quarter comebacks in the NFL over the last 3 years. Romo has the highest career 4th quarter passer rating among active quarterbacks. Romo has a higher winning percentage, better statistics, and more overall comebacks in 4th quarter comeback situations than the two other beloved Cowboys quarterbacks who are considered clutch (Aikman and Staubach).

But yeah, Romo is terrible under pressure. Don't let facts get in the way of your perception.
I should say the same to you. The most 4th quarter comebacks stat cannot be looked at in a vacuum. That perception has skewed your opinion.

2012 - Record 8-8, Out of 8 losses, the Cowboys lost 5 games within a TD.
2011 - Record 8-8, Out of 8 losses, the Cowboys lost 5 games within a TD.
2010 - Record 6-10, Out of 10 losses, the Cowboys lost 8 games within a TD.

So first off all, wins matter above all else and in that same time span that you speak of about him being a great 4th quarter QB, Tony Romo is less than a .500 win QB. In majority of his losses, the Cowboys are within a score from winning or tying the game, but somehow come up short. When you include that into your "perspective", then all of a sudden what you're selling doesn't sound as sweet.

Without looking it up I don't know what his stats are but last year he lead the league in Interceptions with 19! His 10th year in the league! To say the guy doesn't not fault in the face of pressure is simply a case of not watching him play.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I should say the same to you. The most 4th quarter comebacks stat cannot be looked at in a vacuum. That perception has skewed your opinion.

2012 - Record 8-8, Out of 8 losses, the Cowboys lost 5 games within a TD.
2011 - Record 8-8, Out of 8 losses, the Cowboys lost 5 games within a TD.
2010 - Record 6-10, Out of 10 losses, the Cowboys lost 8 games within a TD.

So first off all, wins matter above all else and in that same time span that you speak of about him being a great 4th quarter QB, Tony Romo is less than a .500 win QB. In majority of his losses, the Cowboys are within a score from winning or tying the game, but somehow come up short. When you include that into your "perspective", then all of a sudden what you're selling doesn't sound as sweet.

Without looking it up I don't know what his stats are but last year he lead the league in Interceptions with 19! His 10th year in the league! To say the guy doesn't not fault in the face of pressure is simply a case of not watching him play.
Well, when taking it in that vacuum (you know, not factoring in a lousy head coach), Cam Newton trademarked the one score loss chart:

2013 - Record 1-3, Out of 3 losses, the Panthers lost 2 games within a TD
2012 - Record 6-10, Out of 10 losses, the Panthers lost 7 games within a TD.
2011 - Record 6-10, Out of 10 losses, the Panthers lost 5 games within a TD (one more if you count 2pt conversions).

Stafford: 2012 - 9 1 score losses. Cutler: 4 of 5 losses were within a TD.

You argue not to take stats in a vacuum, by bringing an example in a vacuum.

One score games are horrible indicators of a qb's success, since it fails to factor in coaching ability and garbage time.

The best way to tell clutch abilities really is the eye test, and I think Romo's was skewed because his first national impression was the Seattle game.


Romo is no more clutch than any other non-elite qb out there, and he did something no other team came close to accomplishing yet: hang with Denver for 4 quarters.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Well, when taking it in that vacuum (you know, not factoring in a lousy head coach), Cam Newton trademarked the one score loss chart:

2013 - Record 1-3, Out of 3 losses, the Panthers lost 2 games within a TD
2012 - Record 6-10, Out of 10 losses, the Panthers lost 7 games within a TD.
2011 - Record 6-10, Out of 10 losses, the Panthers lost 5 games within a TD (one more if you count 2pt conversions).

Stafford: 2012 - 9 1 score losses. Cutler: 4 of 5 losses were within a TD.

You argue not to take stats in a vacuum, by bringing an example in a vacuum.

One score games are horrible indicators of a qb's success, since it fails to factor in coaching ability and garbage time.

The best way to tell clutch abilities really is the eye test, and I think Romo's was skewed because his first national impression was the Seattle game.


Romo is no more clutch than any other non-elite qb out there, and he did something no other team came close to accomplishing yet: hang with Denver for 4 quarters.
The Seattle game would not define his career if the mistakes did not continue happening.

I'm fine by disregarding every and all stat comparisons completely due to the million different variables that would have to be considered.

The only thing I take away from it all is that his nickname "The Romocoaster" is the most fitting description of him. High highs and low lows. The excitement of anticipation before each thrilling drop, exhilaration head to toe for short moments, but when the ride comes to an end, you find yourself barfing in the corner.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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i got bored.

in 2012, tony romo led a game winning drive with about 6 minutes remaining over the giants in week 1.
week 2 was a blowout loss to seattle.
week 3, romo led two late drives to put points on the board and put the game out of reach.
week 4, was a blowout loss to chicago. romo's 5 ints don't help.
week 6, romo leads a potential game-tying drive for a touchdown, but doesn't convert the 2. god forbid. worst qb ever. such a choker. defense gives up 30+, but that's irrelevant.
week 7, romo leads two late drives to take the lead and then seal the win. god he sucks.
week 8, romo leads a comeback to take the lead in the 3rd quarter after team falls behind 23-0. defense gives up 6 late points. romo leads a late drive that's negated when dez bryant's hand apparently hit out of bounds on a game winning throw by romo. i mean, a game losing interception, i'm sure, right? that's all he does.
week 9, romo drives cowboys down for late touchdown. pulls his back on final drive. i mean, final interception. that he didn't throw.
week 10, blowout win over eagles.
week 11, romo drives dallas down for late game tying fg, then for game winning fg in ot. choker.
week 12, can't make up for 38 point effort by rg3. still rallies team to only lose by a touchdown, after trailing by 25 at the half.
week 13, puts cowboys into lead late in the 4th, before two flukey plays (a cowboys fumble return and an eagles kick return) distort the score.
week 14, brings cowboys back from 9 point deficit, leads game winning drive at end of game. cut this guy already.
week 15, leads game-tying drive against the steelers. doesn't choke in overtime as cowboys win.
week 16, leads two touchdown drives in the final 14 minutes to go to overtime, loses in OT.
week 17, plays poorly, cowboys lose by 10.

so this "in a vacuum" crap is kind of just that. romo was NOT the reason your team was **** last year. your team was **** because it lacked talent. just like it does this year. and most of the last decade.

i should add that actually looking at the games and what happened at the end gives closure to the 'always chokes' stuff as nothing more than a complete fabrication. it's the kind of thing i'd expect eagles or giants fans to joke about, but not the kind of thing anyone should ever take seriously. y'all ask where his signature moments were? they were in the games where he turned a team with 3-13 or 4-12 talent into a .500 club with a chance at the playoffs. it's unfortunate that everyone's bought into the idea that dallas actually has enough talent with anyone else at qb to compete in any meaningful way.
you must have been very very bored because that entire post said nothing new that hasn't already been said. Romo is good, but not great. Romo needs a great supporting cast because alone he can't carry a team. He has plenty of signature moments combined with plenty of horrific moments. Put half the league's QBs in his shoes and they do roughly the same thing or better, so let's not call him anything more than an average starter who's name is magnified because he's the QB of the Dallas Cowboys.

I'd even add that Dallas' overall talent gets overly criticized because they haven't seen the kind of success they would have had under a different QB.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Without looking it up I don't know what his stats are but last year he lead the league in Interceptions with 19! His 10th year in the league! To say the guy doesn't not fault in the face of pressure is simply a case of not watching him play.
Drew Brees interception totals the last 5 seasons: 17, 11, 22, 14, & 19. Those are his 8th-12th seasons in the league. In fact, the year you cite Romo's 19 INTs was the same year Brees threw 19. And that was his 12th year in the league! Drew Brees sucks!

Not including his rookie year, Eli Manning has thrown 14 or more INTs in all but one season. His average is almost 17 per season. That includes 25 in his 7th season. And that isn't even counting this year where he is on pace for 38. Eli Manning sucks!
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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Drew Brees interception totals the last 5 seasons: 17, 11, 22, 14, & 19. Those are his 8th-12th seasons in the league. In fact, the year you cite Romo's 19 INTs was the same year Brees threw 19. And that was his 12th year in the league! Drew Brees sucks!

Not including his rookie year, Eli Manning has thrown 14 or more INTs in all but one season. His average is almost 17 per season. That includes 25 in his 7th season. And that isn't even counting this year where he is on pace for 38. Eli Manning sucks!
Comparing him to Brees now? You're better than that JRD.

I'm not that high on Eli so if you think he sucks, okay. He's a good bus driver.

Besides... wasn't it established here that comparing stats are useless because of the million different variables?

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