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Old 10-14-2013, 07:25 PM    (permalink
Saints-Tigers
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It is laughable to think Julio is better than Calvin Johnson. Sorry.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Being able to see isn't a skill either. But if you can't see, you can't play in the NFL, lol.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
I didn't discount it. I did exactly the opposite - I acknowledged its role in Johnson's performance. But when you're talking about who the best "receiver" is, there are two ways to look at it. Who is the most effective receiver, and who is the most skilled receiver. Being 6'5" isn't a skill.

Even if we throw it out, it's in no way "laughable." The Lions threw the ball 740 times last year, with no real complimentary receivers in the equation to take many targets away from Johnson. Who knows what Jones would do in a situation like that. 740 passing attempts and being the focal point of an offense like you wouldn't believe?
What does it even matter though? How is the great 'best receiver' v. 'most skilled receiver' debate relevant to football on the field? I think your second paragraph is an entirely imaginary situation? yet more white text I don't know why I just love trollfeeding it's an addiction to me like heroine or fat chicks
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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This is as serious an answer as I could get from him. Exact quote.

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Romo looks better on film but there's more to being a great QB than nice aesthetics. Brady's a winner, Romo is not. Gimme Tom Brady
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Funny, it took you...what, only 15 minutes to only get that "most serious answer you could get from him?"

Not only is "he's a winner" not a scouting report, but it's not even true anymore. Brady hasn't won a SB since February of 2005. Romo hadn't even thrown a pass in the NFL yet back then. And let's face it, the only way to be a "winner" as a QB is to win a Super Bowl, as nobody ever talks about Donovan McNabb as a "winner."
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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what did this ***** say to make Steve do that? where is that video?
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Funny, it took you...what, only 15 minutes to only get that "most serious answer you could get from him?"

Not only is "he's a winner" not a scouting report, but it's not even true anymore. Brady hasn't won a SB since February of 2005. Romo hadn't even thrown a pass in the NFL yet back then. And let's face it, the only way to be a "winner" as a QB is to win a Super Bowl, as nobody ever talks about Donovan McNabb as a "winner."

Uhh. You said the scouting community feels differently about Brady, with no scouts to back that up. I asked the one scout I know, and you assured me he'd not take Brady.

You were wrong. The reasons aren't really relevant. Just say you were wrong.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Uhh. You said the scouting community feels differently about Brady, with no scouts to back that up. I asked the one scout I know, and you assured me he'd not take Brady.

You were wrong. The reasons aren't really relevant. Just say you were wrong.
I asked you for entertainment value. You don't know a scout, you're copping to the classic fictional-credentials-on-the-internet tactic. You made the reply up yourself.

Did I tell you about the time I asked 28 GMs, scouts, and personnel directors about Barry Sanders and they all said, "Barry dances too much, I'd take about 50 backs over him?"

Well, it happened. You can trust me.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Eh. He actually is a writer for RealGM. It's not like he's some super secret hidden source.

It's ok to be wrong bro. You do it a lot, you should be used to it by now.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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It completely demolishes your argument about products of a system. If it's all about the QB and can never just be the scheme, how do you explain Texas Tech?

I'm still waiting.

And you have no idea what the scouting community thinks. I do. I've made a point of acquiring literature featuring comments from actual NFL scouts. Brady isn't nearly as well-regarded in scouting circles as he is in the media.
What is there to explain about Tech? they put up numbers but not enough in the win column. not like theyre winning championships over there and their success needs to be a detailed examination.. they throw a lot

and didn't you just call someone out for making up sources?
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I changed my mind because the season in general has established certain things about Brady, and clarified some things in my mind about Romo.
No you didn't. You're trying to be Skip Bayless. You are insignificant to your cause.

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Brady, without the tight end security blankets and consistent sight adjustments from the receivers, has been forced to make more difficult throws, and by and large, he has failed. Throws that a Drew Brees or a Tony Romo would make have consistently been off-target. While other people are pointing the finger at the receivers, I'm noticing the off-target throws and blaming the guy whom many regard as arguably the greatest to ever play the position for not making said throws.
Brady is 5-1 after losing his top 5 receiving options from last season. Top FIVE. He's forcing throws to a bunch of scrubs barely worthy of making a roster. They're running bad routes, dropping easy passes and hardly making any plays. But you're going to decide that now is the time to harp on Brady?

And since you brought up sight adjustments you should have some idea that the Patriots offense is complex, and that veteran wide recievers have struggled in that system. Unless you're blaming Brady for making the wrong reads and saying that guys like Aaron Dobson are always right. But you should also have some idea that the Patriots offense has changed over a handful of times since he won the starting job. Saying he has failed at anything since starting in the NFL is automatically wrong. He is elite. One of the all-time greats. No explanation needed. Romo is not. Those are facts. Get acquainted. Facts meet JordanTaber, JordanTaber meet Facts. Facts Taber, Taber Facts.


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If you don't see how a reference to a football program that has produced enormous passing production with a revolving door of non-NFL caliber QBs for years on end is relevant in a discussion about systems and quarterbacks, there is no hope for you.
Try avoiding irrelevant references and actually make valid points against Beady and valid points for Romo... By using facts. You have yet to do that. Instead you favor the contrarian aspect of a dead end debate, your forte. If you think Cliff Kingsbury has anything to do with the topic you created, then you're a big giant DBag.


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I'd love to see where I said that. Typical, though. I'm much too intelligent for peons like you to actually argue with, so you're stuck knocking down straw men.
Peon? Ouch. That hurts my feelings. Please stop.

Show me where Romo and Brady rank on your updated list of top QBs since the 80s. Please.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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And you have no idea what the scouting community thinks. I do. I've made a point of acquiring literature featuring comments from actual NFL scouts. Brady isn't nearly as well-regarded in scouting circles as he is in the media.
You may know a scout but you have no idea what the military community thinks. I do. Iíll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and Iíve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and Iím the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps along with a secret network of spies across the USA. And do you know what they all say? That you're a god damn idiot.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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Tony Romo is not better than Tom Brady. That is crazy talk.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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Try avoiding irrelevant references and actually make valid points against Beady and valid points for Romo... By using facts. You have yet to do that.
Oh god please don't bait him. We all know where he's going with this. I'll sum it up below, and save everyone the time.

1) Make a crazy proclamation to be the contrarian about player A.

2) Establish a pretense of what makes a good player at x position.

3) Dismiss the accomplishments of Player A on the premise of being a product of a system, being counterproductive to a winning formula, or being something that anyone could be. Whatever Player A is, doesn't alight with what supposedly would make a good player at x position.

4) Wait for someone to challenge his statement with baseline stats. He'll then introduce his metrics that he's clearly holding back until someone baits him (In this case it'll probably be passes thrown >20 yards down the field). Insist that this is what really determines what makes a good player at x position by normalizing to account for whatever skewed the normal stats that makes point 3 supposedly valid.

5) Respond to every single well thought out post with a restated statement number 3. He'll assume that this actually accounts as a factual defense of his theory.

6) Act conceited, assume that nobody has the intellectual capacity to understand his terrible premise, and horrible logic.

7) Repeat until everyone eventually gets bored.


I just prefer to tell him to go work on his scouting report of Stoney Case.

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Old 10-14-2013, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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You may know a scout but you have no idea what the military community thinks. I do. I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps along with a secret network of spies across the USA. And do you know what they all say? That you're a god damn idiot.
I didn't expect that copypasta on here. You have my respects.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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Brady is 5-1 after losing his top 5 receiving options from last season.
What is this "Brady is 5-1" crap? Don't his teammates get any credit? What about Talib for neutralizing Jimmy Graham?

And, the Pats are a few plays away from being 2-4 or 3-3.

Since Brady took over at QB, it seems like they are a few plays from being three to four games worse than they are every season. They have been lucky to play in the AFC East, which has been pathetic the last 12 years.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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Funny, it took you...what, only 15 minutes to only get that "most serious answer you could get from him?"

Not only is "he's a winner" not a scouting report, but it's not even true anymore. Brady hasn't won a SB since February of 2005. Romo hadn't even thrown a pass in the NFL yet back then. And let's face it, the only way to be a "winner" as a QB is to win a Super Bowl, as nobody ever talks about Donovan McNabb as a "winner."
Donovan McNabb has always been a winner in my book. He did choke in his one and only SB appearance and isnt on level with Brady, but the guy got his team to the playoffs almost every year and consistently made deep playoff runs, and I think he was a great QB and a borderline HOFer.

As for Brady, he has the Pats in the playoffs every year, and they usually win at least 1 game. Super Bowls are hard to come by. But he always has the Pats on the cusp, and that deserves a lot of respect. Romo has I think 1 playoff win to his name? and has made the playoffs 2 times? maybe 3? i think its 2...but yea he just hasnt been able to win the big games. but i still like romo he is a damn good QB, but I dont think this current Dallas team is going anywhere too special. theyre good, but 1st round playoff exit good.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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Since Brady took over at QB, it seems like they are a few plays from being three to four games worse than they are every season. They have been lucky to play in the AFC East, which has been pathetic the last 12 years.
The hell? Since Brady took over the Patriots have enjoyed the most success they've ever had as a franchise. Sure playing in the AFC East helps, but that's like saying the 49ers were overrated because they played in the NFC West during the glory years. The Patriots still have to play the difficult teams, like they did yesterday, and especially in the playoffs. They've been very successful at that ever since Brady has been the starting quarterback.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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please tell me the peyton vs brady thing didn't just cross fan bases...
It just did, but I'm too tired to respond to that ridiculous post right now.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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This whole thread is funny when you go back and read all of his other threads. "Welker sucks, Calvin is the best WR! Welker only compiling stats because of Brady! Think what Calvin would do with Brady!" "Calvin is only good because of height. Height is not a skill." "Brady is bad, Romo is superior." And my favorite, "advanced stats are useless" *tries to use advanced stats to support other arguments*

Can we ban this guy already?
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:51 AM    (permalink
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Can we ban this guy already?
Hell no. Where we would we get our entertainment?
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:14 AM    (permalink
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When did I say anything bad about Calvin Johnson? I rate Julio Jones ahead of him in ability, in large part because I feel Johnson has somewhat of an unfair advantage with his enormous frame and relies on it to make most of his plays. I also enjoy watching Jones play far more. He's that double threat receiver - if the corner is playing off, he can catch the quick hitch and take it the distance with his ability after the catch. If the corner is pressing him, he can run right by him. There's no real way to play him.

But that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge Johnson's dominance as a receiver. I just find him to be like the NBA center who dominates at 7'2," but is less skilled than the guy who is 6'10."
And this is why I love Wes Welker. He doesn't have the arbitrary non-skills like height and speed, but he still gets it done day in and day out. He is the best example of skill over tools. His ability as a WR > the "talents" of other less productive WRs. Julio and Calivin rely too much on their 6'3"/6'5" height, 4.3 speed, and 38"+ vertical jumps. Welker has none of those things and he still puts up comparable total stats. He is the perfect embodiment of how technical ability can make you a dominant player.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:22 AM    (permalink
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And this is why I love Wes Welker. He doesn't have the arbitrary non-skills like height and speed, but he still gets it done day in and day out. He is the best example of skill over tools. His ability as a WR > the "talents" of other less productive WRs. Julio and Calivin rely too much on their 6'3"/6'5" height, 4.3 speed, and 38"+ vertical jumps. Welker has none of those things and he still puts up comparable total stats. He is the perfect embodiment of how technical ability can make you a dominant player.
No!!! You're wrong! Clearly Welker would not put up the same numbers if he was outside the Patriots system...oh wait...
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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No!!! You're wrong! Clearly Welker would not put up the same numbers if he was outside the Patriots system...oh wait...
He's not putting up the same numbers. He's on pace for 1,008 yards this year. All but 2 of his touchdowns have come from 6 yards and in, on dinky little routes any receiver in pro football could have scored on.

And he's playing with Peyton Manning, who is a system all in himself.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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And this is why I love Wes Welker. He doesn't have the arbitrary non-skills like height and speed, but he still gets it done day in and day out. He is the best example of skill over tools. His ability as a WR > the "talents" of other less productive WRs. Julio and Calivin rely too much on their 6'3"/6'5" height, 4.3 speed, and 38"+ vertical jumps. Welker has none of those things and he still puts up comparable total stats. He is the perfect embodiment of how technical ability can make you a dominant player.
What technical ability? He has poor hands and can't separate against quality corners in man coverage. Orlando Scandrick completely blanketed him all game two weeks ago, and he's merely a good nickel. Carlos Rogers completely blanketed him last year. Put a decent corner on him in man coverage, and watch how little he does.

Welker only produces on quick hitches, screens, and drags/slants against zone coverage/linebackers.
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