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Old 10-15-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
JordanTaber
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Originally Posted by YAYareaRB View Post
What is there to explain about Tech? they put up numbers but not enough in the win column. not like theyre winning championships over there and their success needs to be a detailed examination.. they throw a lot

and didn't you just call someone out for making up sources?
They have outstanding completion percentage figures and yards/attempt numbers as well.

My sources aren't scouts I know, they're things they've told others who have quoted them in print.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
JordanTaber
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
No you didn't. You're trying to be Skip Bayless. You are insignificant to your cause.
Nonsensical line written by a moron.

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Brady is 5-1 after losing his top 5 receiving options from last season. Top FIVE. He's forcing throws to a bunch of scrubs barely worthy of making a roster. They're running bad routes, dropping easy passes and hardly making any plays. But you're going to decide that now is the time to harp on Brady?
Brady is 5-1? I wasn't aware he was a tennis player.

Brady has mediocre numbers and the Patriots have been carried by their defense this season. Saying Brady is 5-1 is the same as saying any of those "scrub" WRs are 5-1. It's idiotic and proves that you have your head up your ass as a "football fan."

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And since you brought up sight adjustments you should have some idea that the Patriots offense is complex, and that veteran wide recievers have struggled in that system. Unless you're blaming Brady for making the wrong reads and saying that guys like Aaron Dobson are always right. But you should also have some idea that the Patriots offense has changed over a handful of times since he won the starting job. Saying he has failed at anything since starting in the NFL is automatically wrong. He is elite. One of the all-time greats. No explanation needed. Romo is not. Those are facts. Get acquainted. Facts meet JordanTaber, JordanTaber meet Facts. Facts Taber, Taber Facts.
Nope, those are claims. The sky is blue. That's a fact. Saying he's elite is a claim that hinges on facts that you have not presented. Quarterbacks don't win and lose games, teams do.

Without the benefit of sight adjustments, Brady has had to drop back and try to make more difficult throws, and he has failed. In what is now a simplified offense, he's holding the ball, taking sacks, and throwing uncatchable passes on a regular basis. He's been exposed as much more limited than people think.

Yes, when he has targets who are always on the same page as him, or who are 6'5" and can pull down errant throws, he looks great. The receivers will get wide open and Brady will know where they are and he will hit them, since it's an easy completion.

But now, since he doesn't know what the receivers will run, he'll either be on a completely different wavelength than the open receivers and misfire, or he'll hold the ball and try to thread the needle (if he's not sacked) and come nowhere close.


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Try avoiding irrelevant references and actually make valid points against Beady and valid points for Romo... By using facts. You have yet to do that. Instead you favor the contrarian aspect of a dead end debate, your forte. If you think Cliff Kingsbury has anything to do with the topic you created, then you're a big giant DBag.
Still not getting it. Wow. Just wow.

I was replying to a post within the thread I created. The argument that it can't be the system because if it were the system, everyone would be doing it, is completely annihilated by the fact that Texas Tech puts up huge passing numbers every year, no matter what scrub quarterback they put in, while the rest of college football somehow refuses to just "copy" their scheme and do the same thing. Either Texas Tech recruits great college QB after great college QB, who somehow aren't considered legitimate NFL prospects, or their passing game is the result of a great, wide open scheme, and other coaches don't copy it because...get this...they have their own systems that they believe in, right or wrong. Oh, and also...they don't know the system that they're supposed to be "copying," because football isn't as simple as, "hey, we'll watch a given team's offense and copy their system." You can't copy a system by watching a bunch of plays a team runs. You would have to know the progressions, the various alerts, the blocking, and other nuances of every play...and how all the plays and elements of the plays fit together.


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Peon? Ouch. That hurts my feelings. Please stop.

Show me where Romo and Brady rank on your updated list of top QBs since the 80s. Please.
Subbing in Favre. He had his warts, but what he did in 1995-1997 was on an all-time level.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
He's not putting up the same numbers. He's on pace for 1,008 yards this year. All but 2 of his touchdowns have come from 6 yards and in, on dinky little routes any receiver in pro football could have scored on.

And he's playing with Peyton Manning, who is a system all in himself.
Not putting up the same numbers???

Welker's average stat line for the Pats was 112 catches for 1243 yards and 6 TDs.

This year he is on course for 99 catches for 1008 yards and 21 TDs.

Are you ******* kidding me? You're telling me he isn't putting up as good numbers because of 13 catches and 235 yards, despite the fact that through 6 games this year he is one TD short of his career best for a season?
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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JordanTaber is making up stuff and making crazy claims so that people notice him. It's like when a potty-trained child starts pooping his pants after another child is brought home because he isn't getting enough attention.

Clearly anybody who understands the game of football knows Brady is a better quarterback than Romo. Sure, Romo may look better on paper with visible, physical traits such as his arm strength, quick release, and athleticism, but unfortunately they don't play games on paper. If they did, Michael Vick would already be in the Hall of Fame and Brady never would have made an NFL roster.

On that interception in the Cowboy/Bronco game Romo had a wide open DeMarco Murray underneath that he had the option of throwing to instead of the receiver further downfield that had defenders all around. It wasn't his "idiot ginger coach" or the system that forced him to push the ball further downfield rather than take the safer play, it was Romo's decision.

Decision making is a big part of QB play and unfortunately it isn't a tangible/objective thing. If you don't consider it and other intangibles when evaluating players because you only look at "facts", you are going to be way off base a lot of times, like this.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Oh well, at least he's not married to a hideous, anorexic ****.
You write a comment like that and you complain about being called a troll?

I agree that the difference between Brady and Romo is probably smaller than most people perceive. But Romo being better is a big stretch. Whether it's fair or not, quarterbacks are judged by Super Bowls (like the best NBA players are judged almost solely by championships). Brady has three rings (and counting) and five AFC titles (and counting). Romo has never even been to an NFC title game.

I hate to sound like a wanna-be sex groupie for Brady, but he never played badly in a Super Bowl. The Giants pass rush was dominant in both games, and the second loss to them was because of dropped balls by Wes Welker and murderer Aaron Hernandez on the last drive. I'm not saying that every play and decision Brady made in those two games was perfect; the interception on the deep ball in SB46 vs. NYG was a dumb throw. But the idea that Tom was awful in the two SB losses is a myth.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
-_- brady badly overthrew welker on his 'drop'. it was an awful throw to a wide open receiver and was on brady far more than it was ever on welker.

but brady doesn't choke, ever, so i guess we've got to find someone else to blame that loss on.
Eh I don't agree with his overall premise, but Welker has to make that catch. It certainly wasn't as easy as it should have been, but it did hit him squarely in both hands. Eli got the Manningham catch which was far more difficult than that one. An NFL receiver needs to make that play.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MidwestJimmy View Post
You write a comment like that and you complain about being called a troll?

I agree that the difference between Brady and Romo is probably smaller than most people perceive. But Romo being better is a big stretch. Whether it's fair or not, quarterbacks are judged by Super Bowls (like the best NBA players are judged almost solely by championships). Brady has three rings (and counting) and five AFC titles (and counting). Romo has never even been to an NFC title game.

I hate to sound like a wanna-be sex groupie for Brady, but he never played badly in a Super Bowl. The Giants pass rush was dominant in both games, and the second loss to them was because of dropped balls by Wes Welker and murderer Aaron Hernandez on the last drive. I'm not saying that every play and decision Brady made in those two games was perfect; the interception on the deep ball in SB46 vs. NYG was a dumb throw. But the idea that Tom was awful in the two SB losses is a myth.
I actually disagree with the bottom paragraph here. Yes Welker dropped the ball but it was a poor throw, although I agree with Cmarq that Welker needs to make the catch.

Secondly, the INT was not a dumb throw. Gronkowski singled on any LB is pretty much always the right option. It was a bad throw, not a dumb throw
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
-_- brady badly overthrew welker on his 'drop'. it was an awful throw to a wide open receiver and was on brady far more than it was ever on welker.

but brady doesn't choke, ever, so i guess we've got to find someone else to blame that loss on.
Yeah no hitting a nfl pro bowler in the hands is totally all Brady's fault he didn't pull it in. Not the greatest throw but the giants D-line had batted several of Brady's passes down that game, not surprising he threw it a bit higher than he should have. Regardless if you're an nfl wr you have to make that catch, wasn't easy but it hit him right in the hands. No excuse for dropping that.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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JordanTaber is making up stuff and making crazy claims so that people notice him. It's like when a potty-trained child starts pooping his pants after another child is brought home because he isn't getting enough attention.
Why? Because he dares to criticize the "great" Tom Brady, a QB who gets way more credit than he deserves?

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The hell? Since Brady took over the Patriots have enjoyed the most success they've ever had as a franchise. Sure playing in the AFC East helps, but that's like saying the 49ers were overrated because they played in the NFC West during the glory years. The Patriots still have to play the difficult teams, like they did yesterday, and especially in the playoffs. They've been very successful at that ever since Brady has been the starting quarterback.
The reason why the Pats have had success with Brady has to do with Belichick changing what they do when he took over 12 years ago.

When Bledsoe was the QB, the offense ran through him. It should have, because they just signed him to a 10-year deal.

However, after Brady took over, the Pats started to run a scheme that was based on structure, not ability. They didn't have a lot of talent around Tom, and they had to call plays to protect against the shortcomings of a young QB. That's why the play calling evolved from play action downfield to more shorter passes and screens.

Over time, Belichick mastered that approach, and they were able to win Super Bowls with it because Brady, while he really didn't win games, didn't lose games, either.

And, they had some luck along the way (Tuck Rule), as well as some possible illegal activities (Spygate, possibly using an alternative radio frequency to communicate to Brady illegally):

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-problem/?_r=0

Look at the comments and the article.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Classic thread.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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I'm disappointed to find this thread isn't just pictures like these:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...8pC3ouenN7FlCQ
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I like how he also made another account to agree with himself. Please never ban this guy.
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fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I like how he also made another account to agree with himself. Please never ban this guy.
They even format their responses the same with the break in quotes.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53 View Post
The reason why the Pats have had success with Brady has to do with Belichick changing what they do when he took over 12 years ago.

When Bledsoe was the QB, the offense ran through him. It should have, because they just signed him to a 10-year deal.

However, after Brady took over, the Pats started to run a scheme that was based on structure, not ability. They didn't have a lot of talent around Tom, and they had to call plays to protect against the shortcomings of a young QB. That's why the play calling evolved from play action downfield to more shorter passes and screens.

Over time, Belichick mastered that approach, and they were able to win Super Bowls with it because Brady, while he really didn't win games, didn't lose games, either.

And, they had some luck along the way (Tuck Rule), as well as some possible illegal activities (Spygate, possibly using an alternative radio frequency to communicate to Brady illegally):

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-problem/?_r=0

Look at the comments and the article.
Well, with Bledsoe as the starter in Belichick's first season the team went 5-11. This was the start of Bledsoe's decline. He never really found the same success he had in the 1990's.

Sure the Patriots had a simple approach when Brady was first starting out. Especially his first season. But not much longer after that he was the maestro of the offense. And it wasn't Belichick's philosophy that shaped everything. It was Charlie Weis. Then McDaniels, and then Bill O'Brien. Brady has worked with a few coordinators and had success with all of them.

Brady still had to make the throws against tough competition to help the Patriots win all three of those trophies. I'm not sure what you are suggesting. That Brady has been a fraud this entire time? That Romo or Bledsoe are the ones that are actually better than he is? We're talking about a guy that threw 50 touchdowns in a season. Give us all a break.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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He's been banned 2 or 3 times before but the magic keeps happening.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Not putting up the same numbers???

Welker's average stat line for the Pats was 112 catches for 1243 yards and 6 TDs.

This year he is on course for 99 catches for 1008 yards and 21 TDs.

Are you ******* kidding me? You're telling me he isn't putting up as good numbers because of 13 catches and 235 yards, despite the fact that through 6 games this year he is one TD short of his career best for a season?
I do think it is hilarious how the guy leading the NFL in receiving TD's through 6 games is somehow having a worse season than what he was doing in New England.
Ask any team if they would take a guy who was on pace for 100 catches, 1,000 yards and 20 TD's on their team. Of course they would. He is money on what he does, and a good WR.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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They have outstanding completion percentage figures and yards/attempt numbers as well.

My sources aren't scouts I know, they're things they've told others who have quoted them in print.
Like I said, they put up nice stats but don't win enough games. A freshmen walk-on is/was tearing up for them this season. It's no secret that they are the product of the system ran there at Tech.

But this is the NFL. Systems don't work much. sure a play caller can be better than the one on the next team, but I doubt a "system" as you say Tom Brady works in would have flourished this long in the NFL.

The problem here is you're comparing these two guys from a scouts eye. But scouting reports are just paper. After the scouting report is done and the rankings are compiled, you still gotta go out there and perform, regardless of system. Tom Brady has, Romo.. not so much
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Why? Because he dares to criticize the "great" Tom Brady, a QB who gets way more credit than he deserves?

The reason why the Pats have had success with Brady has to do with Belichick changing what they do when he took over 12 years ago.

When Bledsoe was the QB, the offense ran through him. It should have, because they just signed him to a 10-year deal.

However, after Brady took over, the Pats started to run a scheme that was based on structure, not ability. They didn't have a lot of talent around Tom, and they had to call plays to protect against the shortcomings of a young QB. That's why the play calling evolved from play action downfield to more shorter passes and screens.
Yeah, Brady was limited early. They also had young receivers, Antoine ******* Smith at RB, not much in the way of TEs, and a terrible offensive line. Weis ran a really safe, conservative system early on with Brady. It focused on ball control, and it was brilliant.

Brady's skill has always been in preparation and making all the right adjustments at the line. He knows his flaws and has virtually erased them all. His mechanics and footwork in the pocket are second to none. And that's from pulling every ounce of talent out of himself possible.

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Over time, Belichick mastered that approach, and they were able to win Super Bowls with it because Brady, while he really didn't win games, didn't lose games, either.
Belichick doesn't run the ******* offense. 3 different coordinators have run 5-7 completely different offenses over the years. The offense has evolved from the coordinators and Tom Brady integrating elements of spread option attacks learned directly from Urban Myer and Chip Kelly.

It's amazing that you've managed to say more ******** things in this thread than Jordan. He does it on purpose.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Whether or not you agree with the OPs argument, it's interesting to note that Brady was a 6th round pick, and Romo was undrafted, in spite of their high talent. Brady won back-to-back bowl games against the SEC (Alabama, Arkansas) while surrounded by usually inferior Big Ten players. That should have at least gotten him into Round 3 (even while still not knowing what his future would hold).

I forgot about Drew Bledsoe being with Dallas. Brady and Romo coincidentally both took over for him.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Romo is without a doubt, hands down, no question..the 3rd best undrafted quarterback of all time, behind Warner and Moon. :)
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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How is this thread 5 pages?

Did people actually try to have arguments in here?
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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How is this thread 5 pages?

Did people actually try to have arguments in here?
If we just agree with the trolls then they wont have anything to argue about, and thus they may eventually start attempting to argue for correct things. No matter what just agree with them and then they have nothing to keep posting about.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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How is this thread 5 pages?

Did people actually try to have arguments in here?
I have Taber on my ignore list. Sometimes I take a peek at what he's saying, because he can be legitimately thought provoking when he's not just trolling us. But he's the only guy who I have on ignore.
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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Well, with Bledsoe as the starter in Belichick's first season the team went 5-11. This was the start of Bledsoe's decline. He never really found the same success he had in the 1990's.

Sure the Patriots had a simple approach when Brady was first starting out. Especially his first season. But not much longer after that he was the maestro of the offense. And it wasn't Belichick's philosophy that shaped everything. It was Charlie Weis. Then McDaniels, and then Bill O'Brien. Brady has worked with a few coordinators and had success with all of them.

Brady still had to make the throws against tough competition to help the Patriots win all three of those trophies. I'm not sure what you are suggesting. That Brady has been a fraud this entire time? That Romo or Bledsoe are the ones that are actually better than he is? We're talking about a guy that threw 50 touchdowns in a season. Give us all a break.
1. He didn't throw 50 TD's until Randy Moss and Welker got there. Before that, he never cracked 30. Peyton had the record in 15 games. And, despite the fact that they ran up the score in a lot of their games, it took 16 games for Tom to break Peyton's record.

2. I know that Bill isn't the offensive coordinator, and I know he doesn't call the plays, but he is the head coach, and he is the one constant in Tom's 12 years there. He has to have a big say in how the offense is structured. He was a defensive coordinator, so he should have some good ideas on how to attack a defense.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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the ball was over his head and he had to essentially make a diving catch. it was a horrible throw. does a star receiver catch it? probably. does that make it not almost entirely on brady for badly overthrowing a wide open receiver to win the game? only if you're a patriots fan, apparently.
You quoted two people saying it wasn't a great throw. But it actually was a decent throw that Welker flailed at and dropped.

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