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Old 10-25-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
So do all the other positions now.
Quarterbacks since 2000
2000
#18 Chad Pennington - B-

Notable later round picks
#168 Marc Bulger
#199 Tom Brady

2001
#1 Michael Vick - B
#32 Drew Brees - B
#53 Quincy Carter - D
#59 Marques Tuiasosopo - D

2002
#1 David Carr - F
#3 Joey Harrington - F
#32 Patrick Ramsey - D

Notable later round picks
#108 David Garrard

2003
#1 Carson Palmer - A
#7 Byron Leftwich - B
#19 Kyle Boller - D
#22 Rex Grossman - C

Notable later round picks
#192 Drew Henson (because of what Houston fleeced Dallas for in trade)

2004
#1 Eli Manning - C (grading the Chargers, NOT the Giants)
#3 Philip Rivers - A (grading the Giants, NOT the Chargers)
#11 Ben Roethlisberger - A
#22 J.P. Losman - F

Notable later round picks
#90 Matt Schaub

2005
#1 Alex Smith - D
#24 Aaron Rodgers - A+
#25 Jason Campbell - C

Notable later round picks
#106 Kyle Orton
#213 Derek Anderson
#230 Matt Cassel
#237 Ryan Fitzpatrick

2006
#3 Vince Young - D
#10 Matt Leinart - D
#11 Jay Cutler - B
#49 Kellen Clemens - D
#64 Tarvaris Jackson - D

2007
#1 JaMarcus Russell - F-
#22 Brady Quinn - F
#36 Kevin Kolb - C
#40 John Beck - C
#43 Drew Stanton - D

2008
#3 Matt Ryan - A
#18 Joe Flacco - A
#56 Brian Brohm - D
#57 Chad Henne - C-

2009
#1 Matthew Stafford - B
#5 Mark Sanchez - F
#17 Josh Freeman - C
#44 Pat White - D

Notable later round picks
#232 Julian Edelman

2010
#1 Sam Bradford - D
#25 Tim Tebow - D
#48 Jimmy Clausen - F

2011
#1 Cam Newton - B+
#8 Jake Locker - C-
#10 Blaine Gabbert - F
#12 Christian Ponder - D
#35 Andy Dalton - B
#36 Colin Kaepernick - A+

Notable later round pick
#152 T.J. Yates

2012
#1 Andrew Luck - A
#2 Robert Griffin III - B+
#8 Ryan Tannehill - C
#22 Brandon Weeden - F
#57 Brock Osweiler - D (because they passed on Russell Wilson)

Notable later round pick
#75 Russell Wilson
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:34 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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Just taking a quick glance at TE's, there doesn't seem to be a ton of value taking them high.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:25 PM    (permalink
WCH
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Brian Brohm was definitely an F for the Packers, unless he gets points for helping to push Favre out the door. I mean, if Jimmy Clausen gets an F then Brohm probably should as well.

Last edited by WCH : 10-25-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Brian Brohm was definitely an F for the Packers, unless he gets points for helping to push Favre out the door. I mean, if Jimmy Clausen gets an F then Brohm probably should as well.
The Bills started that F....more than once.
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Old 10-25-2013, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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I'd much rather have Adrian Peterson in 2007 than Brady Quinn (who I wanted the vikings to draft at the time [I was actually pretty upset when the vikings picked Peterson over Quinn])

Also keep in mind that the NFL was still a running league back in 2007 when Peterson was drafted. The Vikings have had 3 winning seasons and 1 .500 seasons since then. 3 of those seasons resulted in playoff appearances for them.

From 2001 to 2006, they had one winning season (9-7, made playoffs) and 1 .500 season.

You can't tell me that the vikings haven't improved since drafting Peterson.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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#49 Kenny Irons - D
How? He never played a single snap in a regular season game.

Also, Chris Henry should be graded an F-. ****ing worst pick in Titans history.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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#32 Drew Brees - B

#7 Byron Leftwich - B
Did you just grade Drew Brees and Byron Leftwich the same? And give John Beck a higher grade than Vince Young?

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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:09 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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Did you just grade Drew Brees and Byron Leftwich the same? And give John Beck a higher grade than Vince Young?

I was grading based off the teams who drafted them and whereas Brees has become a HOFer in New Orleans, San Diego never properly used him and forced him out for a less talented QB. They mainly got a B because of the value of getting him in Round 2 that was enhanced by the trade with Atlanta and getting LT.

Vince Young went #3 overall, when a QB is taken that high he should be a franchise changing player, Young was not, so for the value wasted on the pick he is graded lower than a second round pick.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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Jake Locker >>>>>>>>>> Kap, Dalton, Tanny.


I said it, come at me bros.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:42 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Jake Locker >>>>>>>>>> Kap, Dalton, Tanny.


I said it, come at me bros.
If you mean 10x, I think you're cray cray. But I do think Kap and Dalton benefit from being on better teams with better complimentary players, and I haven't watched much of Tannehill this year at all. But he doesn't have much in Miami, either. It'd be nice if Locker could stay healthy.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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they bring different skill sets to the table, thats why they both get carries.
What are the different skillsets?

Ellington: Yards rushing and receiving

Mendenhall: Fumbles?
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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I was grading based off the teams who drafted them and whereas Brees has become a HOFer in New Orleans, San Diego never properly used him and forced him out for a less talented QB. They mainly got a B because of the value of getting him in Round 2 that was enhanced by the trade with Atlanta and getting LT.

Vince Young went #3 overall, when a QB is taken that high he should be a franchise changing player, Young was not, so for the value wasted on the pick he is graded lower than a second round pick.
John Beck should be an F.

John Beck at #40 <<<<< Chad Henne at 57.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I was grading based off the teams who drafted them and whereas Brees has become a HOFer in New Orleans, San Diego never properly used him and forced him out for a less talented QB. They mainly got a B because of the value of getting him in Round 2 that was enhanced by the trade with Atlanta and getting LT.
Never properly used him? He put together two excellent seasons in San Diego, one of which helped result in the team's first playoff birth since the mid-90s. The situation with Rivers was a double edged sword. They picked him when Brees was on the verge of getting cut and then abruptly, Brees puts together an incredible 2004 season and a very good 2005 season. At that point, what are the Chargers supposed to do? They locked up a ton of cash in Rivers (thanks to the days of the absurd rookie contracts) so they couldn't get rid of him without incurring a major cap penalty. They bit the bullet and opted to go with Rivers, because of financial reasons, and let Brees walk. Was it a mistake? Not really, they didn't have any other options. So to say SD got as much out of him as Jacksonville got out of Leftwich is nonsense. Hell, giving Leftwich anything besides a C is pretty bad. The guy was woefully inconsistent and ended up getting benched in favor of Garrard.

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Vince Young went #3 overall, when a QB is taken that high he should be a franchise changing player, Young was not, so for the value wasted on the pick he is graded lower than a second round pick.
Vince Young deserves at least a C. I know he finished up with the Titans under bad circumstances but he at least had a few games over the course of his career, and that alone is much more than I can say for Marques Tuiasosopo, Kyle Boller, Matt Leinart, Kellen Clemens, Brian Brohm, Pat White and Brock Osweiler; all of whom received an equal D grader from you. Before heading into the bye week in 2010, VY was actually leading the ENTIRE league in QB Rating and then everything went south fast thanks in large part to his own behavior, but all Jeff Fisher and other circumstances. I'm not saying Vince was a massive hit in Tennessee but to put him on par with Pat ****ing White, a guy who never even completed a pass with the Dolphins, is nonsense. And on the note of Dolphins quarterbacks...

John Beck lasted for only two years on the Dolphins, playing in just 5 games. These were his numbers:

60 cmp, 107 att, 56.1 cmp%, 559 yards, 1 td, 3 int, 62.0 rate, 5.2 y/a

How is that not an F?
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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2004
#24 Steven Jackson - B
#26 Chris Perry - D
#30 Kevin Jones - D
#41 Tatum Bell - F
#43 Julius Jones - C
#55 Greg Jones - B

2012
#3 Trent Richardson - B (SOLELY on getting a First Rounder for him)
#31 Doug Martin - A
#32 David Wilson - D
#50 Isaiah Pead - F
#61 LaMichael James - C
I think you should stop wining some of the grades.
Tatum Bell does NOT deserve a F grade.
LaMichael James has 34 carries for 156 yards and no TD's in 1 1/2 seasons and yet he's a C grade.

Also, on your QB grades, why is Manning a C? He ended up getting Rivers to San Diego, and Rivers was awesome with San Diego, had one bad year, and now is performing well again.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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As far as I can tell, this thread is essentially about how the first 32 picks in a draft should be QB's. Then in the second round we can move to pass rushers. But, like, pass rushers are LESS important than QB's, so always take one first.
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Old 10-26-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Jake Locker >>>>>>>>>> Kap, Dalton, Tanny.


I said it, come at me bros.
Don't see Locker taking us to the Super Bowl last season. Just saying.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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If you're trying to be a run heavy team in a traditional offense, you have to go for that talented running back. Once you get past the 2nd round there aren't any elite physical talents. You're picking an average player who you're hoping can be made above average by your scheme or OL. That's why a team would draft Denard Robinson and convert him to RB... because you're just not going to find a RB with that kind of speed after round 2.

Another thing people are ignoring is the ownership POV. Other than QB, RB has been the most marketable position on the field. Adrian Peterson may not have lifted the Vikings to a Super Bowl, but he's worth millions to the Vikings in jersey sales, bobble head sales, fatheads, and they use his image on ads, etc. Kevin Williams doesn't generate that kind of marketing. I'm not saying RB's haven't been de-valued; they have, but it seems like people are focusing on the late round success stories rather than the failures. For every Foster or Morris there are 10 Gartrell Johnson's. The talented, three down running backs don't last very long. If you pass on a playmaking running back you're making the decision that you just don't need one. Which is fine, but don't be upset when one of those guys burns you in a game.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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I as well wouldn't spend a first round pick on a RB. You can find value at RB in the second and third rounds. You're going to see this become a trend.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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I as well wouldn't spend a first round pick on a RB. You can find value at RB in the second and third rounds. You're going to see this become a trend.
Some years you can. Some years you can't. Every class is different with how the value of players shakes out. Teams are going to continue to draft who they think offers them the most value.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:44 PM    (permalink
RufusMcDaniel
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Jake Locker >>>>>>>>>> Kap, Dalton, Tanny.


I said it, come at me bros.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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At the OP - in the words of McGruber, "Never ever say never ever."
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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That doesn't help either, but the Trent Richardson pick was just as bad or even worse.

Cleveland basically wasted *both* of their 2012 first round picks.
Not true. We got a 1st for Trent, so we saved face. With Weeds we just threw a pick in the toilet and hit flush.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Not true. We got a 1st for Trent, so we saved face. With Weeds we just threw a pick in the toilet and hit flush.
The Browns did the right thing it appears by moving Richardson for a first but it still goes down as a bad pick. Basically the Browns traded the 3rd pick in the draft for 1 year of mediocre production and what will likely be a high 20s pick
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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The Browns did the right thing it appears by moving Richardson for a first but it still goes down as a bad pick. Basically the Browns traded the 3rd pick in the draft for 1 year of mediocre production and what will likely be a high 20s pick
also they gave up like a 4th to move up to draft him
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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The Browns did the right thing it appears by moving Richardson for a first but it still goes down as a bad pick. Basically the Browns traded the 3rd pick in the draft for 1 year of mediocre production and what will likely be a high 20s pick
Again, I fault the old regime for that. You give credit to the new regime for assessing the situation and making the most of it.

The new regime has been money so far. Great coaching staff, good draft, a clear plan moving forward.

I think the Browns are heading in the right direction.
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