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Old 10-29-2013, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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Default Best 2nd Round / 2nd Tier QB

Let's say that Bridgewater, Mariota, Manziel, Mettenberger and Hundley are locks to go in the 1st round.

Who is the best of the 2nd tier of QBs that may go in the 2nd round?
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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Personally I would include Tajh Boyd in that first tier and Manziel is a wildcard. But I would likely go with McCarron. I see no reason why he cannot be a better version of Andy Dalton in the NFL
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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Aaron Murray, hands down.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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Keith Price

edit: Forgot about McCarron, he's clearly ahead of the rest of the pack. The Boyd/Morris/Murray group are all QBs that people have looked at and decided they weren't good enough. Those guys almost ALWAYS fail as 2nd-3rd round picks. Dalton and Kaepernick both came from non-BCS schools although you could argue Dalton is in that category. Still, he's 1 guy out of 50.

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Old 10-29-2013, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Sean Mannion?
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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Aaron Murray, hands down.
Why do you say that?

I just don't see the physical upside with him.

What about Jimmy Grapollo?
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Personally I would include Tajh Boyd in that first tier and Manziel is a wildcard. But I would likely go with McCarron. I see no reason why he cannot be a better version of Andy Dalton in the NFL
Agreed.

McCarron would be very attractive to a QB needy team who wants a game-manager type QB in the 2nd. I don't like using that moniker, but that's what he's been asked to be at Alabama, no fault on him. With some added weight and training, he could add some arm strength and become a very good QB. You don't need a cannon arm, just enough to make NFL throws.

I'd be happy if my team (Browns) went in that direction.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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...Bortles.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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If I can pick juniors who aren't likely to come out than I would take Bortles and Mannion over any of the 2nd tier guys.

If not I'd take McCarron.

Also I don't believe that Boyd is even in the discussion with the 1st tier guys.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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...Bortles.
Our UCF expert says he would likely stay another year. If he did come out he's most likely tier 1 (1st round)

Tajh Boyd would be the guy i'd take in the second and hope to develope him. At worst you'd have a play making backup QB.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Why are we assuming a noodle armed system QB is a tier one QB.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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I'd pull back the reins on Hundley - two bad performances against two quality defenses exposed him. He will probably stay another year.

Mannion is a 1st tier guy contrary to what the dopes at ESPN tell you. Not sure if he comes out this season although his stock may never be higher.

Bortles makes sense to stay another year, he is a very good QB - someone on this board likened him to Big Ben which I can totally see. If he comes out he could very well be a first rounder.

Fales is a forgotten man, he has been playing very well as he got acclimated to the new offensive system. He has put up like 5 300+ passing yard performances in a row.

Carr from Fresno St is getting no attention either - athletic, rocket arm, quick release and putting up prolific numbers in that offense - reminds me of Tannehill.

As far as depth this class is pretty stacked - moreso than I can remember. It's kind of like the 83 QB class where 6 QBs went in the first. This class could have that potential. It just depends if guys like Mallet, Cousins and Foles get moved in free agency. Murray, McCarron and Boyd are other 2nd tier guys I haven't really discussed. Just a real interesting year for QBs.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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This is closer to the QB Class of 1999 than 1983.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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On pure upside alone, Derek Carr. I'm a sucker for strong arms, the rest you can teach. If his brother wasn't such a bust I think he'd be in the 1st round conversation.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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This is closer to the QB Class of 1999 than 1983.
Agree. People either forget or are too young to remember how good the class of 83 was.

I think this year's class will turn out to be less than advertised because i see Hundley staying and possibly Mariota, although when you're going 1st or 2nd it's probably a good idea to leave. One can always get that Oregon degree at a later date.

I will say that next year could be a great class with guys like Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Hundley and maybe even Coker, if he has a great year at his new school. That group may challenge the 83 crop.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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I agree that Hundley's stock is down quite a bit. I was pretty high on him after the Nebraska game but his game against Stanford made me realize how slow he is at making reads. It was fine against the lesser competition but as soon a he played a team that got pressure on him he crumbled. I still think he's a 1st rounder if he comes out just based on physical ability but he's now towards the bottom of the top tier guys. He should probably stay another year.

I also have Mannion as a 1st tier guy and currently have him just below Mettenberger. I still worry about his inconsistent handling of pressure.

I assume the Bortles/Big Ben comparison is about them being underrated from small schools and not about their play style. I love his intangibles and he seems to have solid physical skills. I feel he has velocity problems at times though but it seems to be a mechanical problem and not necessarily a lack of arm strength.

I think Carr is going to move up boards throwing the ball around in workouts but from what I've seen this season he still can't handle pressure and that's been the thing that's ruined plenty of promising looking Qbs in the past including his brother. His tools make worth taking a chance on but that's a flaw you can't avoid.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget Bryce Petty next year.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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I'm not as high on Boyd as I was earlier in the season, I was really high on him, but I don't think he's a first round talent anymore. I'm not a fan of Hundley and haven't been. I don't like his release, he's not that fast, and he didn't perform well in the Stanford game. I seem to be alone though when it comes to thinking Hundley isn't a first round talent.

Of the second round guys I think McCarron is the best. I've been really impressed with his play throughout the course of his career. I haven't watched Mannion extensively but he sounds like a guy who could be in this group as well. I've also liked what I've seen from Carr this season.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget Bryce Petty next year.
His numbers get a bit inflated by that system but he's a major sleeper for the draft. Already graduated so he could come out this year. His arm is very good and obviously he's accurate. He moves around a bit too. If a couple of guys stay in school there may be a place for him in the first round.
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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I think Carr is going to move up boards throwing the ball around in workouts but from what I've seen this season he still can't handle pressure and that's been the thing that's ruined plenty of promising looking Qbs in the past including his brother. His tools make worth taking a chance on but that's a flaw you can't avoid.
He's not amazing in the pocket but that issue is overblown. If anything his issue is footwork consistency. It'll get weird even in clean pockets.

I despise his OC. Dude basically hung him out to dry on Saturday and left his NFL TE on the bench to boot. And that's to say nothing of how he (doesn't) utilize his skillset
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Let's say the Bears plan is to franchise Cutler and develop a guy for a year or 2.

Who would you select?

Because the player is not playing right away who has the most upside down the road?

I keep finding myself drawn to the higher upside guys like Mathews and Garapollo.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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He's not amazing in the pocket but that issue is overblown. If anything his issue is footwork consistency. It'll get weird even in clean pockets.

I despise his OC. Dude basically hung him out to dry on Saturday and left his NFL TE on the bench to boot. And that's to say nothing of how he (doesn't) utilize his skillset
I would point to footwork with Carr as well and that is fixable. I think he will work his way into the first round conversation.
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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Probably Carr. There's too many flaws in his game despite the statistical success for him to go in the first, but his tools are a lot better than people are giving him credit for. He's not a safe prospect, but he's a pretty good risk after the dust settles with the top guys. I'm not confident he goes in the second round though. Could see anywhere from the third to the fifth. He's likely on the high end of that projection though.

I like McCarron a ton too. He's a pure game manager at this level, but his arm is good enough to maybe be something more if you ask him to be. Impressed me a ton in crunch time against A&M.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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What are people's opinions of Stephen Morris if he is given a year or 2 to sit with a top QB coach?
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCandy View Post
What are people's opinions of Stephen Morris if he is given a year or 2 to sit with a top QB coach?
If he's 100% I think he can have a big offseason and go round 1.
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