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Old 10-30-2013, 10:07 AM    (permalink
Jas
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Reading comprehension. The article, if you read it, was about how we are getting him the ball NOT the reasons why we cant. But I get it, according to you Dez should get 25 targets a game whether hes doubled, trippled or no matter what the Defenses are doing. Hes on pace to have 152 targets, thats a HUGE amount especially with the other guys around him. How many of the guys that have more targets than Dez, have the surrounding talent that Dez has? He was underused in Detroit, but again, thats a small sample size. Overall Dez is getting his targets
No, I don't agree, especially not when looking at the games, they allow teams to take him away far too many times- 2nd half in K.C and san diego, the opener vs. the giants, Detroit, Washington.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelo...215/dez-bryant

imo 3 times this year we gave him sufficient amount of the targets..I would like to see that number at about 10-12 per game. Not 6 or 8.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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I agree and I think we've all felt that they should've been using more picks on the oline over the last few years.

I really think we just got hit with a lot of unfortunate injuries on the dline and we've been very happy and celebrating the no names and there ability to make up for lack of depth recently.
They had a less effective game this week and now people are pointing to the flaw of not having all pros on the bench to come in an play on the line.
"Dallas is one-deep on the defensive line right now. Compare that to Seattle, who rolls eight deep at that position, and looks like a 21st century version of the '90s Cowboys, who also had eight starting-caliber linemen to attack you."

To much to expect I know...
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
Jas
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"Dallas is one-deep on the defensive line right now. Compare that to Seattle, who rolls eight deep at that position, and looks like a 21st century version of the '90s Cowboys, who also had eight starting-caliber linemen to attack you."

To much to expect I know...
Maybe the problem is our expectations lol
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:32 AM    (permalink
Jas
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Wow, things are getting wild around here.

Hey Jas,
I don't know if I really welcomed you here, but it's been nice having another voice around here to keep the action pumping. You got a lot of good things to say and from the nuggets that you dropped I get that you've been a long time fan of the boys. So yeah, glad you share the same memories, misery and of course future hopes! ;)

Mind telling us a little bit about yourself? How'd you stumble across us? Welcome to the family bro! We're a bit dysfunctional at times, but you won't find a more passionate bunch within a small family feel!
Thank you for the welcome, and I appreciate the conversation, we all mean well in our own ways, don't we?
We just want our team to return to championship form. And we all debate about the ways to achieve it.
I value the opinions even if I don't agree, we all have a right to discuss this stuff. I don't take any of it personally or hold a grudge so its cool.

Yeah I've been looking at the page for years in regards to the draft, but recently decided to be more involved in the forum.

I go back almost 30 years with the cowboys. First living in NY battling Giant fans and now in PA with the Eagle fans. Whole family of Cowboy fans here lol
Wife and kids too, I can't say anything derogatory about Romo in front of my daughter, she loves him.
5 years old and she's telling me we can't give Dez Bryant the ball too much the other players need to play too..lol
So yeah, its always a forum for discussion in my house.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Maybe the problem is our expectations lol
Comes with being a lifelong Cowboy fan. When you've lived with the success of Landry/Schrahm and the way Jimmy built the team from 1-15 to SB Champs in 4 short years, you want that type of success to continue. Almost 20 years later we are still waiting to breakout of the .500 trend JJ has installed over that period.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Comes with being a lifelong Cowboy fan. When you've lived with the success of Landry/Schrahm and the way Jimmy built the team from 1-15 to SB Champs in 4 short years, you want that type of success to continue. Almost 20 years later we are still waiting to breakout of the .500 trend JJ has installed over that period.
I hear ya, I know that legacy and it takes a lot of things to come together to build that kind of dynasty in the 90's.
From making the right draft picks, to having the right coach, picking up key free agents. It's like lightening in a bottle and the longer it takes to get it back the more I realize how amazing all the pieces and the focus was at the time.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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The discussion about Dez Bryant continues to dominate the airwaves.

Much of the talk is far from flattering for the Cowboys’ No. 1 receiver/lighting rod. Bryant has been called a baby, a petulant child, a diva receiver and a prima donna in the days since he had a couple of emotional outbursts on the sidelines during Dallas’ 31-30 loss to the Detroit Lions.

That’s fine by Jerry Jones. Heck, he considers it great marketing.

“I think it’s a very good thing,” Jones said Tuesday on KRLD-FM. “Yes, you can have some bad publicity, but I think it’s a very good thing to be relevant. I know it is. When you are relevant and you do happen, that fire starts, it’s like putting a match in a room full of lighter fluid. And I look forward to that
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowbo...medium=twitter

Wouldnt it be great if we could just be "relevant" on the field? Our GM
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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I hear ya, I know that legacy and it takes a lot of things to come together to build that kind of dynasty in the 90's.
From making the right draft picks, to having the right coach, picking up key free agents. It's like lightening in a bottle and the longer it takes to get it back the more I realize how amazing all the pieces and the focus was at the time.
But you look at a team like KC who had the 1st pick in the draft to 8-0 in one year. No reason why we shouldnt be able to have big time success. Well there is a reason but he isnt going anywhere, unfortunatly.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowbo...medium=twitter

Wouldnt it be great if we could just be "relevant" on the field? Our GM
Yeah that's a pretty ignorant way to address that.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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But you look at a team like KC who had the 1st pick in the draft to 8-0 in one year. No reason why we shouldnt be able to have big time success. Well there is a reason but he isnt going anywhere, unfortunatly.
Yeah, that is interesting, I see your point, even the turn around of the seahawks and 49ers has been pretty impressive.

With K.C. it may have something to do with the schedule, but they are much improved and it appears to be overnight.

Coaching changes and an identity are more important than we realize.

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Old 10-30-2013, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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But you look at a team like KC who had the 1st pick in the draft to 8-0 in one year. No reason why we shouldnt be able to have big time success. Well there is a reason but he isnt going anywhere, unfortunatly.
KC was a very well built team last year, they just had injuries that piled up and a terrible group of QBs.
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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This week we get a big victory, Offense should be on all cylinders and the defense should be able to control the vikes offense.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Yes we had a very good draft, I'll admit that. Its not hindsight though, Im pretty sure we all know how I, and many others, felt during and after the draft. Is it nitpicking? I suppose, but its all about building a winning team. How many years has it been that we havent been able to run the ball now? Was the answer to draft a TE that cant block? A 4th RB? For the 1st time in the HISTORY of the NFL a team (us) has given up 400+ yards to QBs four times! And we are in week 8!!

Whats our record under Garrett now? Where is the progress? And your right, when it comes to this team its ALWAYS something. DT, OG, Safety, OT, and those positions either get ignored or JJ fills the spot with below average players. We are hemorrhaging and JJ applies a bandaid.

If we were in year 1 of a rebuild I'd say we had a great draft, but we're not. And our problems arent tied just to this draft. It seemed obvious to me, going into this draft that our most pressing needs were on BOTH lines and we needed way more than just a Center coming out of it. To see those needs get ignored AGAIN was bad GMing IMO and your seeing the results of YEARS of neglect or bad player pickups on the field.

Again, its about building a winning team. We are approaching 20 years without a SB apperance and only 1 playoff win. Is my frustration misguided? Should I point the finger at somebody besides JJ? Is being .500 and having a chance to make the playoffs now acceptable?
Well to be honest, you nitpicked on nearly every pick so is it fair to find glory in bashing one pick while all the others have panned out? ...and who knows? Lord forbid, the moment Witten goes down, the Escobar pick might look a lot more useful than it does now. You talk about our lack of depth, but at least we're covered at the spots we spent our picks at... C, WR, TE, RB, LB, CB. It's just too hard to predict where your injuries will happen. It's also hard to have quality depth at every position.

If you want to blame JJ that is fine. But expecting change there is not happening. I don't even think it's accurate. The success and failures of the Cowboys is on Jerry's shoulders, but it should be pointed more towards the people under him. His HC and coaching staff, his scouting director and Stephen's cap manipulation. You can't fault Jerry for not wanting to win and not putting forth the funds to make it happen. Some tight wad owners don't even give their teams a fighting chance and I'm glad Jerry is not one of those. Jerry will also make the tough decisions in deciding on his staff. If there's ever a time to fault or credit Jerry for anything it's the HC he chooses. I think you can throw in trades, and player contracts, but other than that... I really don't credit or fault him for the players we draft.

If we're gonna criticize Jerry around here then I hope it's pointed in the right areas... coaching, contracts. I hate hearing about it's his fault for the players we drafted. Makes no sense to me.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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C'mon Jerry make it happen

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-one-more-try/
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Something else that really hasn't been mentioned is some of the ill advised contract extensions that have been handed out that handcuff what we can do in FA. Ratliff immediately comes to mind, so does Miles but we also have big money owed to Witten, Ware, and Romo.

I think drafting Escobar and Williams were to safeguard the future as much as getting immediate impact. Not saying I agree with Red Shirting guys when there are holes that need to be fixed now but if we can get those guys going it helps us in cap relief. If they can step into starter roles by next season the team can save $10+ mil by cutting their predecessor's prior to the 2015 season. An additional $3.5 mil can be saved if BW Webb can come in and subplant Scandrick.

I'd suspect this up coming draft the team will have no other option to draft for immediate starters. There are far to many holes in the trenches to not attempt to target impact players in that area. That being said I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a QB taken "higher" then expected to groom behind Romo ( who should be gone prior the 2017 season ).
Good point. Hopefully every pick of every draft has the hope that the future is here and cap relief can be delivered. But yeah, we often look at how we can fill our immediate needs first. Cap relief is not the first thing on our minds. For sure, thinking about life after Austin was a critical one though. The early WR pick was worth it. Especially since Williams was considered a 1st round pick at one point. As for Escobar, I think they certainly hope he can develop into Witten's heir, but I really think having the chance to run more 12 formation is what was on the front of their minds. I also think Garrett was soured by passing on Eifert that he wanted to make sure he got the 2nd best TE he could get. We all know how much Garrett adores the Patriots and their attack was pretty potent with Gronk and Hernandez.

I wouldn't be surprised if we started to see more of that 2 TE set if our offense continues to sputter. We might not be drawing Safeties in the box in our passing formations, but if we can get them to start paying attention to our big TEs then maybe that can free up Dez or T-Will more.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Well to be honest, you nitpicked on nearly every pick so is it fair to find glory in bashing one pick while all the others have panned out? ...and who knows? Lord forbid, the moment Witten goes down, the Escobar pick might look a lot more useful than it does now. You talk about our lack of depth, but at least we're covered at the spots we spent our picks at... C, WR, TE, RB, LB, CB. It's just too hard to predict where your injuries will happen. It's also hard to have quality depth at every position.

If you want to blame JJ that is fine. But expecting change there is not happening. I don't even think it's accurate. The success and failures of the Cowboys is on Jerry's shoulders, but it should be pointed more towards the people under him. His HC and coaching staff, his scouting director and Stephen's cap manipulation. You can't fault Jerry for not wanting to win and not putting forth the funds to make it happen. Some tight wad owners don't even give their teams a fighting chance and I'm glad Jerry is not one of those. Jerry will also make the tough decisions in deciding on his staff. If there's ever a time to fault or credit Jerry for anything it's the HC he chooses. I think you can throw in trades, and player contracts, but other than that... I really don't credit or fault him for the players we draft.

If we're gonna criticize Jerry around here then I hope it's pointed in the right areas... coaching, contracts. I hate hearing about it's his fault for the players we drafted. Makes no sense to me.
Im not finding glory in our players not succeeding. Im finding fault in the way our GM builds a team. When you are the Owner and GM there is nobody else to blame. From "socks to jocks", from the fact that "500 other coaches could succeed as the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys" hes hired and fired anybody and everybody associated with the Dallas Cowboys. The GM does not know how to evaluate talent. If hes trusting other people to build his team then he needs to replace them too. The ONLY reason he wants to be the GM is so he can get all the credit and prove he could do it without Jimmy. Its been a cluster every since. Did you happen to read any of the articles I posted on the last page? http://www.cowboysnation.com/2013/10...t-reaping.html Or is it better to hide the truth and keep the hope alive?
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Reading comprehension. The article, if you read it, was about how we are getting him the ball NOT the reasons why we cant. But I get it, according to you Dez should get 25 targets a game whether hes doubled, trippled or no matter what the Defenses are doing. Hes on pace to have 152 targets, thats a HUGE amount especially with the other guys around him. How many of the guys that have more targets than Dez, have the surrounding talent that Dez has? He was underused in Detroit, but again, thats a small sample size. Overall Dez is getting his targets
I think we'd all appreciate a more mature conversation. Reading comprehension? Really? You're going there?

Do you notice that we don't complain about the amount of targets Dez gets in games we win? However, when we are in tight games and we need to make plays, then we NEED to find ways to get the ball to our best playmaker. Period. The game against Detroit was especially frustrating because he was ignored, but when we got him the ball great things happened.

We keep losing close games and it's frustrating to hear that Dez only has 6 4th Quarter targets in 8 games this year! That's totally unacceptable. Especially for a team that needs clutch play to finish off games.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Good point. Hopefully every pick of every draft has the hope that the future is here and cap relief can be delivered. But yeah, we often look at how we can fill our immediate needs first. Cap relief is not the first thing on our minds. For sure, thinking about life after Austin was a critical one though. The early WR pick was worth it. Especially since Williams was considered a 1st round pick at one point. As for Escobar, I think they certainly hope he can develop into Witten's heir, but I really think having the chance to run more 12 formation is what was on the front of their minds. I also think Garrett was soured by passing on Eifert that he wanted to make sure he got the 2nd best TE he could get. We all know how much Garrett adores the Patriots and their attack was pretty potent with Gronk and Hernandez.

I wouldn't be surprised if we started to see more of that 2 TE set if our offense continues to sputter. We might not be drawing Safeties in the box in our passing formations, but if we can get them to start paying attention to our big TEs then maybe that can free up Dez or T-Will more.
No identity. We draft to run 12, then we go to 3 wide. 1 game we want to run the ball 30 times the next we run it 12. One game we want to stretch the field, the next we dink and dunk. Seriously, this is just dysfunction. I want Garrett to succeed but its getting to the point that you cant even defend him anymore.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Since the past glory is being brought up recently I wanted to throw this out there. Below is the starting roster from the 92' champs.
I'm not trying to be sacrilegous here or diminish that greatness.
But just in a compare an evaluation excercise where do you think they were much better than this team today. Interested in all of our thoughts.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...992_roster.htm

The obvious Running back position, offensive line. But where else, just curious as to everyones thoughts.

QB?

My thinking is we are better or at least as good at WR and TE.

Defensive line if it would've been rat, hatch, spencer and ware..is perhaps better.

Linebacker, those guys were fast that was their main attribute but Idk..thats a wash.

Corner??

Safety clearly goes to 92'.

Oh and of course HC.

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Old 10-30-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I think we'd all appreciate a more mature conversation. Reading comprehension? Really? You're going there?

Do you notice that we don't complain about the amount of targets Dez gets in games we win? However, when we are in tight games and we need to make plays, then we NEED to find ways to get the ball to our best playmaker. Period. The game against Detroit was especially frustrating because he was ignored, but when we got him the ball great things happened.

We keep losing close games and it's frustrating to hear that Dez only has 6 4th Quarter targets in 8 games this year! That's totally unacceptable. Especially for a team that needs clutch play to finish off games.
My apologies. The article was about how much we are feeding him the ball not being the "apologist" as the poster wrote for not getting him the ball. My emotions got in the way and that was a bit to harsh. again I apologize.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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My apologies. The article was about how much we are feeding him the ball not being the "apologist" as the poster wrote for not getting him the ball. My emotions got in the way and that was a bit to harsh. again I apologize.
Thanks D but it's okay.
Apology accepted pocket, no worries. I apologize as well, I wasn't refering to you as the apologist actually but the writer of the article.

We tend to get very emotional about this stuff, its really meaningless ultimately in the big picture of our lives but conventionally we do tend to get riled up over it. I mean it matters but we can't get too crazy about it.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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KC was a very well built team last year, they just had injuries that piled up and a terrible group of QBs.
Yeah they were. Even knowing who they should take with the #1 overall pick was a wild guess. I also think they decided to tank. Some teams can get away doing that. Dallas isn't one of them.

But my feelings on KC is still pretty shallow. Reid might win a lot of games this year...heck he might win a lot of games for a long time, but I don't believe for a second that he will ever win a SB there.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Since the past glory is being brought up recently I wanted to throw this out there. Below is the starting roster from the 92' champs.
I'm not trying to be sacrilegous here or diminish that greatness.
But just in a compare an evaluation excercise where do you think they were much better than this team today. Interested in all of our thoughts.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...992_roster.htm

The obvious Running back position, offensive line. But where else, just curious as to everyones thoughts.

QB?

My thinking is we are better or at least as good at WR and TE.

Defensive line if it would've been rat, hatch, spencer and ware..is perhaps better.

Linebacker, those guys were fast that was their main attribute but Idk..thats a wash.

Corner??

Safety clearly goes to 92'.

Oh and of course HC.
QB, RB, FB, WR, LT (2X pro bowler) LG, C, RG, RT, LDE, DT, DT, SS, FS

We are better at LB and Corner maybe. Haley and Ware are both great. The thing is, is that where 92 is better at than this team in most cases its not even close. On offense all most all of those guys were Pro Bowlers. Some are HOF'ers. The 92 team would blow this team out. Wouldnt be close.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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No identity. We draft to run 12, then we go to 3 wide. 1 game we want to run the ball 30 times the next we run it 12. One game we want to stretch the field, the next we dink and dunk. Seriously, this is just dysfunction. I want Garrett to succeed but its getting to the point that you cant even defend him anymore.
I think it's good to have options, but I agree with you. Instead of enforcing our will, it seems like we're game planning to our opponent and getting too cute in the process. The belief in Garrett is wanning for sure. I expected problems on defense, but this offense is supposed to be better. Too many lost drives and settling for FGs. Being among the top scoring teams in the NFL is nice to hear but it's a mirage of the truth. We sacrificed defense for favor of offense. They need to deliver when the defense creates turnovers.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Also looking at that '92 lineup look at the backups. Jeffcoat, Jimmy Jones, Leon Lett, Noonan, Myles, Martin, Jimmy Smith (to bad he didnt work out here)

We were young and deep. Ahhhh memories...
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