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Old 02-12-2014, 11:40 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
Gilbert and Evans are frequently mocked to teams like Detroit and Buffalo.
I don't believe Evans is good enough to go that high, Gilbert fate lays at the Combine where he could put himself in a position to go as high as #10 and it is a pick that makes some sense for both teams.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:59 AM    (permalink
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Kyle Van Noy anyone?
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Default I've got it.

Rutgers WR Brandon Coleman. Already a few biscuits away from TE size, if he doesn't perform well in the agility and speed drills, he could take a tumble.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Less who will be this year's Moore and more of a who has a shot to be, but what about Ebron? Pure speculation and like most in this thread not a consensus top 10 pick but more a consensus top 20 guy, but I think he has a real shot to take a tumble if he doesn't test well. Right now he's being valued as a super athletic, mismatch TE who needs to be developed as a blocker. Take away the athleticism and I think a lot of the appeal goes away - like Moore he doesn't have great size either and could easily get jumped by guys in the Amaro/Seferian-Jenkins/Niklas group. The fact that there are reports he's been putting on weight makes me wonder how he'll test so that's part of the speculation. And obviously he could come in and blow the doors off the combine, he looks like an outstanding athlete in games. I just think he fits a similar profile to Moore pre-combine, especially with those reports of gaining weight.

Barr seems to be dropping based on his tape more than the combine, it seems like there's a good chance he lands in that 10-20 range but I don't know if he slips much further. Interviews are what could probably drop him if he comes off like he doesn't really like football.

I think if anything Evans has an opportunity to catapult himself solidly into the top 10. I suppose if he runs a 4.7+ he falls a good amount, but right now people have him in the mid-first mainly because they see him as a guy without great speed. Anything sub-4.5 and he probably moves up a few slots, maybe even leapfrogs Watkins. I do wonder how he does in the agility drills though.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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I could see Bridgewater sliding the way Geno Smith did last year from a potential Top 5 pick to the late First Round to mid Second Round.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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I could see Bridgewater sliding the way Geno Smith did last year from a potential Top 5 pick to the late First Round to mid Second Round.
It's crazy to me that I've seen so many people talk about Bridgewater sliding but very few people have anything negative to say about him. Are we really at the point where we're considering Blake Bortles going ahead of him?
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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It's crazy to me that I've seen so many people talk about Bridgewater sliding but very few people have anything negative to say about him. Are we really at the point where we're considering Blake Bortles going ahead of him?
Some are scared that he's too small and frail to last long in the NFL.
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I could see Bridgewater sliding the way Geno Smith did last year from a potential Top 5 pick to the late First Round to mid Second Round.
If it happens, it won't be for the same reasons that it happened with Geno. Bridgewater has a better attitude and comes from a better system.
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Some are scared that he's too small and frail to last long in the NFL.
I think those concerns are being overblown. It's not like he's 6'1 190 or something. We'll see what his exact measurements are but if he measures close to 6'3, which is almost guaranteed, and something like 205 or 210 I can't see how he drops out of the top 5. I'll take concerns about his size over the overall rawness of Bortles' game.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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He was probably the best player on the field against Ohio State. That may be a small sample size, but they were one of the top teams in the country and Mack absolutely dominated. I have a hard time believing he will test poorly, he out ran everybody on that pick six.

He can fall all the way to the Pats if he wants. I think he has the chance to be one of the best players to come out of this class, if not the best. I firmly believe that.
I don't disagree.

I expect him to tear it up at the combine. And I think he definitely could be one of the best of the class.

I'm saying though, that if he falls flat on his face there, it could cause a precipitous drop. Because everyone expects him to kill it at drill time. Not doing so would really cast doubt on how good he really is.

If he tests in the middle of the pack athletically or worse -- then I definitely see him dropping out of the 1st round. He needs to maintain expected value because his body of work is limited. His value is based heavily on his athleticism. If he doesn't have that advantage, then he gets tossed back into the pile with other LBs who feature other talents. And non special LBs athletically don't get picked in round 1.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:53 AM    (permalink
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Derek Carr.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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Today Manziel is being talked about as a Top 3 pick. On draft day, I wouldn't be surprised if he fell more than any other top prospect.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:40 AM    (permalink
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Derek Carr.
I could see it. And Bridgewater will not get out of the top 3. All this "he's dropping on boards" talk is just ludicrous.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:55 AM    (permalink
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I think if anything Evans has an opportunity to catapult himself solidly into the top 10. I suppose if he runs a 4.7+ he falls a good amount, but right now people have him in the mid-first mainly because they see him as a guy without great speed. Anything sub-4.5 and he probably moves up a few slots, maybe even leapfrogs Watkins. I do wonder how he does in the agility drills though.
The trouble with Evans even if his speed is good, is that he played WR for Manziel who can run around all day giving his WR's endless time to get open, can he get separation with a normal QB, that is the huge question mark he needs to answer at the combine and his pro workouts. He is definitely the prime guy I see who could take a huge drop if he struggles and he is definitely a guy who will get a close scrutiny from scouts because of the Manziel question.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:05 AM    (permalink
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It's crazy to me that I've seen so many people talk about Bridgewater sliding but very few people have anything negative to say about him. Are we really at the point where we're considering Blake Bortles going ahead of him?
Well, I'm not saying Bridgewater won't go top 3 and it may mean absolutely nothing, but Charley Casserley just said that right now, pro scouts still feel that Bortles could go #1 overall if he excelles at his pro day. Casserley has Bridgewater, Manziel and Bortles all pretty well at the same level with little separation except who the GM falls in love with. IMO, Casserley doesn't have a solid track record concerning QB's, he took Carr #1 overall and said he wouldn't touch Newton, so his opinion could be way off, but that doesn't preclude Houston actually taking Bortles if their GM and HC simply love his upside more than Bridgewater's. Just a thought.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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The trouble with Evans even if his speed is good, is that he played WR for Manziel who can run around all day giving his WR's endless time to get open, can he get separation with a normal QB, that is the huge question mark he needs to answer at the combine and his pro workouts. He is definitely the prime guy I see who could take a huge drop if he struggles and he is definitely a guy who will get a close scrutiny from scouts because of the Manziel question.
This is a very good point. I went back and watched the game against Missouri where Evans was held to 4 catches for 8 yards and the biggest thing I noticed was that they didn't allow Manziel to make plays from outside the pocket down the field. They contained him in the pocket for the most part and when he did get outside they had the athletes to pursue him and force him to run instead of looking to pass. Basically they were physical with Evans at the line and limited Manziel's ability to extend plays and give his receivers extra time to get open. The more I watch the more I grow concerned about Evans ability to create separation. I'm not even that concerned with his straight-line speed. I want to see some fluidity in his routes because right now he looks to have an incredibly rigid running style.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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This is a very good point. I went back and watched the game against Missouri where Evans was held to 4 catches for 8 yards and the biggest thing I noticed was that they didn't allow Manziel to make plays from outside the pocket down the field. They contained him in the pocket for the most part and when he did get outside they had the athletes to pursue him and force him to run instead of looking to pass. Basically they were physical with Evans at the line and limited Manziel's ability to extend plays and give his receivers extra time to get open. The more I watch the more I grow concerned about Evans ability to create separation. I'm not even that concerned with his straight-line speed. I want to see some fluidity in his routes because right now he looks to have an incredibly rigid running style.
I've been re-watching the LSU game, and Evans had a terrible time getting open. LSU got away with a lot of holding and some PI, but Evans needs a QB with good ball placement and the willingness to throw it to him even if he's covered. In my first mock, I had him going to Buffalo, but I'm beginning to rethink that.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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I think people are overrating Evans heavily. I think, best case scenario, you get Marques Colston. Not Vincent Jackson.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Mike Evans might be a pretty good one for this, really. If he runs poorly he'll fall.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Mike Evans might be a pretty good one for this, really. If he runs poorly he'll fall.
I don't see it though, he's a 4.55 guy.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I don't see it though, he's a 4.55 guy.
I think so, too, but if he does time slowly, he could fall. I think the point of the OP is that people thought Damontre Moore was a high-level athlete and nobody expected him to run in the mid-4.8s, so it's one of the things that catches your eye when wondering why he went from being considered, generally, to be a solid first round pick to lasting until the third round. I'd be shocked if Evans goes to the third, but since there are already questions about his ability to separate and he mastery of the position, if he comes out and runs a 4.68 or something, I could see him slipping pretty easily. I was shocked to see Keenan Allen go in the third last year, and there was a time when he was about as highly-regarded as Mike Evans has been. There are so many good receivers in this class, and a couple other big ones, that teams might just go another direction.

Say Brandon Coleman and Kelvin Benjamin both run sub-4.5. Teams who might've been thinking of Mike Evans might decide to take other prospects, similarly raw, but who appear to have higher athletic upside. Guys like Jarvis Landry, Marquise Lee and Jordan Matthews are more polished route runners with better pure receiving skills, despite not having Evans size, and teams might decide that they'd rather go with a faster, more polished player than a guy who benefitted from having a lot of size and a lot of time to get open. *shrug* You don't really know why players fall, but Mike Evans is clearly a guy who is valued right now because he's seen as a size/speed guy, but if he comes out and doesn't appear to have the speed, teams looking for a size/speed receiver could have other options they prefer.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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But I think this year's "Damontre Moore" is Khalil Mack.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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But I think this year's "Damontre Moore" is Khalil Mack.
Agree. Came in to post the same. But I think his overall tape is better so even if he disappoints athletically, he won't fall as far.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:28 AM    (permalink
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I think so, too, but if he does time slowly, he could fall. I think the point of the OP is that people thought Damontre Moore was a high-level athlete and nobody expected him to run in the mid-4.8s, so it's one of the things that catches your eye when wondering why he went from being considered, generally, to be a solid first round pick to lasting until the third round. I'd be shocked if Evans goes to the third, but since there are already questions about his ability to separate and he mastery of the position, if he comes out and runs a 4.68 or something, I could see him slipping pretty easily. I was shocked to see Keenan Allen go in the third last year, and there was a time when he was about as highly-regarded as Mike Evans has been. There are so many good receivers in this class, and a couple other big ones, that teams might just go another direction.

Say Brandon Coleman and Kelvin Benjamin both run sub-4.5. Teams who might've been thinking of Mike Evans might decide to take other prospects, similarly raw, but who appear to have higher athletic upside. Guys like Jarvis Landry, Marquise Lee and Jordan Matthews are more polished route runners with better pure receiving skills, despite not having Evans size, and teams might decide that they'd rather go with a faster, more polished player than a guy who benefitted from having a lot of size and a lot of time to get open. *shrug* You don't really know why players fall, but Mike Evans is clearly a guy who is valued right now because he's seen as a size/speed guy, but if he comes out and doesn't appear to have the speed, teams looking for a size/speed receiver could have other options they prefer.
Evans is faster than both those guys you've named. I think Evans is more valued as a possession/size WR right now. People worry about his ability to seperate but it really seems like every 6'4+ WR has that as everyone's #1 concern during the draft process. he separated just fine against SEC defenses and I think his speed is quite deceptive. I actually don't think he's on the board at #13 for the Rams.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:52 AM    (permalink
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UNC's Eric Ebron's tape is too good for him to drop that far. Even if he ran a 4.8, his agility, run skills and hands during actual games indicate that he has rare talent for the position. Ebron is one of those players who has a way of standing out whenever you watch him play.

Even if Mike Evans runs slow, I don't see any way he makes it past teams like the Steelers, 49ers, Pats or Seahawks.

If any of the top rated CB/S prospects runs a 4.6 or higher, most of them risk dropping at least a round, particularly the cornerbacks.
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