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Old 02-15-2014, 03:30 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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I would there would be a second exception for teams that don't need a quarterback.
I realize that is a given, of course we are talking about teams that need a QB.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:42 AM    (permalink
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[quote=niel89;3567829]Newton was not a slam dunk #1 by any stretch. He was considered a first rounder at the end of the season and climb a lot during the predraft process. There were plenty of people questioning his merits as a prospect. When draft time came around Newton was mostly considered the #1 QB but there was still debate for some and Newton still was not a lock for #1. Carolina could have honestly gone a couple different ways and it would not have been shocking.

I think Bridgewater gets the positional advantage over Clowney for the Texans pick but I have Clowney far and away the best player in this draft by far. I even like Bortles but there is no way I pass on talent like Clowney if I have something resembling a QB on my team.[/QUOTE

I have no doubt that Caroilina had Newton at #1 overall for quite some time and never waivered from that decision. Others definitely questioned his character etc. but I believe Carolina believed strongly in him.

Well, Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland and Oakland have nothing at QB and all would take a QB over Clowney if they had the chance. The 'Golden Rule' is still in vogue in the NFL. At this point, there isn't enough QB's to go around but if Carr moves into contention at his pro day, then Clowney could easily slip to the 6th pick. As good a prospect as he is, I expect Clowney at this point to go #5 to Oakland since I doubt Carr moves up that much.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
You're already off Mike Glennon after a one year audition?? Damn man.
I give Mike at least a couple more seasons before I'm taking a 1st round QB to replace him.

If the Rams stay disciplined and don't start drooling over the shiny new toy in the draft(Clowney) they're going to loaded after this draft.

OLine should be fixed, more quality depth throughout the roster and a talent upgrade in the secondary.

If Bradford can start for 16 games, as a Rams fan I would be very disappointed if St. Louis doesn't win at least 10 games.
Long before the draft the Tampa Bay coaching staff and GM will have decided on Glennon's potential, they don't need a year or 2 to reach that conclusion. I've coached ball for over 25 years at a high level and I can tell in one practice the potential for each of my players just by closely watching each one. I don't need years to reach that conclusion and neither do pro coaches.

Yes, if they believe in Glennon, they wouldn't consider drafting another QB but if they don't, they won't wait 2 more years to decide.

I do agree that there can be no more excuses for Bradford, this should be the year where the Rams decide his fate with the team. Up until now, they have strongly believed in his talent, this coming season will tell if they made the right choice after passing on solid franchise QB's for 2 years in a row. Draftniks may question him and I think it is justified, but so far, the Rams just haven't waivered in their belief in his talent.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:26 AM    (permalink
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[quote=Iamcanadian;3568421]
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
Newton was not a slam dunk #1 by any stretch. He was considered a first rounder at the end of the season and climb a lot during the predraft process. There were plenty of people questioning his merits as a prospect. When draft time came around Newton was mostly considered the #1 QB but there was still debate for some and Newton still was not a lock for #1. Carolina could have honestly gone a couple different ways and it would not have been shocking.

I think Bridgewater gets the positional advantage over Clowney for the Texans pick but I have Clowney far and away the best player in this draft by far. I even like Bortles but there is no way I pass on talent like Clowney if I have something resembling a QB on my team.[/QUOTE

I have no doubt that Caroilina had Newton at #1 overall for quite some time and never waivered from that decision. Others definitely questioned his character etc. but I believe Carolina believed strongly in him.

Well, Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland and Oakland have nothing at QB and all would take a QB over Clowney if they had the chance. The 'Golden Rule' is still in vogue in the NFL. At this point, there isn't enough QB's to go around but if Carr moves into contention at his pro day, then Clowney could easily slip to the 6th pick. As good a prospect as he is, I expect Clowney at this point to go #5 to Oakland since I doubt Carr moves up that much.
Can't draft Carr ahead of Clowney. I don't care if he ****s rockets at his pro day. Like I said, Houston - to me - is justified in Manziel, Bridgewater, or Clowney, but those are the only two QB's I'd consider over Clowney. I'd draft Mettenberger before Carr - injury and all.

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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As much as I don't really care for Brooks, his Jags pick is the only one I like.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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[quote=E_Bird;3568430]
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Can't draft Carr ahead of Clowney. I don't care if he ****s rockets at his pro day. Like I said, Houston - to me - is justified in Manziel, Bridgewater, or Clowney, but those are the only two QB's I'd consider over Clowney. I'd draft Mettenberger before Carr - injury and all.
I'm more ready to let the process take its natural course, the playing field in the postseason is equal and if a prospect shines, I'm prepared to change my board on occasion. I have no problem with the 3 QB's in the hunt for the #1 overall pick and I do doubt that Carr will squeeze into the top 5, but teams are so desperate for a QB in today's NFL, that it wouldn't completely shock me to find Carr going top 5 on draft day.

GM's are a strange lot, keeping their jobs is still their top priority followed by building a winner, drafting Clowney over a QB desperate team isn't likely to produce much of a winning record if they don't have a franchise QB and like it or not, that can quickly lead to a new GM for that team. We all like to think GM's will make the best choice for their team, but in reality, it just isn't always the case. Draftniks don't have to worry about losing our jobs, we'll still be here next year.

IMO, it is very likely to come down to the 5th pick for Oakland before Clowney has an opportunity to get drafted and their GM needs for his team to make a serious jump in wins or he could lose his job. If Carr completely shines in the postseason, and does very well in his interview, I don't think you can completely write him off for that pick. Of course, he still has a long way to go to reach those lofty heights but I would say it is not impossible just unlikely to happen. Imagine a scenario where Carr gets draft by say Minny and does well as a pro, I wouldn't want to be in Oakland's GM position of having to explain why they passed on him.

The other factor that can come into place, is the owner ordering his GM to draft a QB no matter what, I think that is the current case in Cleveland whose owner just fired his management team because they didn't want to do it, so there is no certainty on draft day, there is extreme pressure and you can never say what will happen.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Just a reminder, the were four quarterbacks taken in the first hundred picks last year. None of them went in the top fifteen (Sorry, I mixed up where E.J. Manuel was drafted with someone else). Remember that when considering teams drafting a quarterback 'no matter what'.

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Old 02-15-2014, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Ej Manuel at #16, but I still think he was over drafted as well. Last year was just a really awful QB class. I wouldn't be shocked if no long term starts come from it.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Just a reminder, the were four quarterbacks taken in the first hundred picks last year. None of them went in the top fifteen (Sorry, I mixed up where E.J. Manuel was drafted with someone else). Remember that when considering teams drafting a quarterback 'no matter what'.
Some QB classes simply stink and you have to be extremely lucky to get a QB out of it, last year was a perfect example of that, but I believe this year's crop is pretty decent, nothing in the way of a Luck or RG111 class but after that fact, it is still very good and deep, so the 'Golden Rule' will be in effect.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Some QB classes simply stink and you have to be extremely lucky to get a QB out of it, last year was a perfect example of that, but I believe this year's crop is pretty decent, nothing in the way of a Luck or RG111 class but after that fact, it is still very good and deep, so the 'Golden Rule' will be in effect.
Yah, definitely a rough class. Smith looks truly awful. I'm curious to see if Manuel or Glennon can become a decent starting QB in this league. Both have potential,but also limitations.

I still hold out some hope for Nassib and Jones too, as they went to pretty ideal situations where they can develop a bit. I think Barkley is a bum though.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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Newton was not a slam dunk #1 by any stretch. He was considered a first rounder at the end of the season and climb a lot during the predraft process. There were plenty of people questioning his merits as a prospect. When draft time came around Newton was mostly considered the #1 QB but there was still debate for some and Newton still was not a lock for #1. Carolina could have honestly gone a couple different ways and it would not have been shocking.

I think Bridgewater gets the positional advantage over Clowney for the Texans pick but I have Clowney far and away the best player in this draft by far. I even like Bortles but there is no way I pass on talent like Clowney if I have something resembling a QB on my team.
you mean Newton was not a slam dunk #1 in the media eyes until after the draft process. Newton was probably ranked pretty high on other team boards, and was Carolina BPA. the media catches up to the NFL boards as the process goes on.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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People have inflated expectations about what makes a good QB class. There's not that many QBs widely considered good in the NFL. Some that are have been in the league a decade or more. How many good QBs should we expect to come out of a given class. To me, you should expect 2 or 3 to have long successful careers as starters. More than that seems like an unusually good class.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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You're already off Mike Glennon after a one year audition?? Damn man.
I give Mike at least a couple more seasons before I'm taking a 1st round QB to replace him.
Glennon is a career backup that Schiano loved. Before Greg was fired he told the team that Glennon was the starting QB next year and that no other QB was going to be brought in. I'm pretty sure that the Glazers heard that and said "**** you Schiano, you're outta here."
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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I liked Glennon coming out and he looked pretty good as a rookie IMO. He understands passing concepts and has plus arm talent. That can go a long way. No reason he can't become Joe Flacco. Gotta get him another weapon or two, depending on how Williams is.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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you mean Newton was not a slam dunk #1 in the media eyes until after the draft process. Newton was probably ranked pretty high on other team boards, and was Carolina BPA. the media catches up to the NFL boards as the process goes on.
I agree, the media plays catch up with team's actual draft boards, however, I really got the feeling that there were splits on the opinion of Newton. Some GM's obviously loved him, some seemed to indicate, they wouldn't touch him, it actually is likely a common occurence on draft day. There is a reason why poor drafting teams account for around 85% of all flops and good drafting teams seem to have no problem in finding talent in every round. GM's simply aren't all equal in their ability to find and judge talent.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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People have inflated expectations about what makes a good QB class. There's not that many QBs widely considered good in the NFL. Some that are have been in the league a decade or more. How many good QBs should we expect to come out of a given class. To me, you should expect 2 or 3 to have long successful careers as starters. More than that seems like an unusually good class.
I strongly believe that the odds for QB success has changed as the college game has changed. Throwing the ball used to be an after thought in college especially among the top teams. Running the ball took up 75-85 of most college team's offense. QB's drafted into the NFL really had minimal experience throwing the ball and the guesswork by scouts and GM's on who would succeed was extremely weak.

In today's college game, QB's throwing the ball are the main focus of college offenses and college QB's get to throw the ball at least 75% of many top programs. That has given pro scouts a huge edge over the past in being able to assess QB talent and has allowed a lot more QB's to be successful in the NFL.

I do agree although I would say 1-3 QB's a draft are the normal and more than that is extremely rare. That being said, I do think this year's crop may just fall in the extremely good class with a possibility of 4 or 5 QB's going in round 1 and another 2 or 3 going in round 2.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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Being a Texans fan, it wouldn't bother me if we went with Schaub for another year. Granted, if we keep the number 1 pick, I would rather it be a QB than Clowney. I am just curious as to where he would play in our defense. We have the best 34 DE in the league so that leaves either moving JJ further from the qb to a position he isn't used to, moving Clowney to OLB, or doing some OLB/DE hybrid thing like Wade Phillips did with Mario Williams for a year. It seems like trading down, picking up a 2015 first round pick, and getting Barr or Mosley would help out more than Clowney. Clowney and JJ seems insane on paper but I am skeptical as to how Romeo could make the two of them work.
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