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Old 02-25-2014, 03:54 PM    (permalink
coordinator0
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I'm not talking about high draft picks, they rarely will make the switch before failing at CB because of the FA money difference in pay between a CB and a Safety. I'm thinking more along the lines of a Tyrann Mathieu and you have to remember, not every CB can make the switch, since generally Safeties are 10-20 lbs. heavier than CB's.
Neither am I really, Jenkins and McCourty both just happened to be high picks.

This is something that has interested me for a while and I'd like to get a full list of starting safeties who transitioned to that position from cornerback. I'd try to do it myself but I'm not 100% sure about the background of all the current starting safeties. Here's who I have so far:

Charles Godfrey
Malcolm Jenkins
Danieal Manning
Tyrann Mathieu
Devin McCourty
Glover Quin
Antrel Rolle
Aaron Williams

There are probably more but those are the only players that I'm familiar enough with to list after doing a quick look at Ourlads depth charts. I'm still leaning towards this type of transition not being common and/or successful.

Last edited by coordinator0 : 02-25-2014 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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What was Lamarcus Joyner's unofficial 40? Saw the official was 4.55, guessing unofficial was 4.47-49.
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Neither am I really, Jenkins and McCourty both just happened to be high picks.

This is something that has interested me for a while and I'd like to get a full list of starting safeties who transitioned to that position from cornerback. I'd try to do it myself but I'm not 100% sure about the background of all the current starting safeties. Here's who I have so far:

Charles Godfrey
Malcolm Jenkins
Danieal Manning
Tyrann Mathieu
Devin McCourty
Antrel Rolle
Aaron Williams

There are probably more but those are the only players that I'm familiar enough with to list after doing a quick look at Ourlads depth charts. I'm still leaning towards this type of transition not being common and/or successful.
Glover Quin for Houston and Detroit
Amari Spievey for Detroit
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Glover Quin for Houston and Detroit
Amari Spievey for Detroit
Yep, Quin fits the bill. Wasn't sure about him but looking more into it he did play corner at New Mexico. I knew about Spievey but he isn't a starter (or on a roster) anymore and he was pretty bad anyways.
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Glover Quin for Houston and Detroit
Amari Spievey for Detroit
That means nearly a 3rd of the NFL has a starting S that was a CB prospect at one time. Nice to see it backed by facts.

Mythbuster. CB to S transitions are definitely a commonality found in the NFL today.
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Does he have to sign a waiver in case he dies of a heart attack at the end of the run.
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Roberson and Purifoy disappointed in 40 times. I still like Ed Reynolds, but he is now a day 3 pick. Gaines helped himself the most
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Old 02-25-2014, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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That means nearly a 3rd of the NFL has a starting S that was a CB prospect at one time. Nice to see it backed by facts.

Mythbuster. CB to S transitions are definitely a commonality found in the NFL today.
Or you can look at it as 8 (that I've found so far) out of 64 starters have made that transition. Commonality would not be a word I'd use to describe that.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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I never thought the corner to safety transition was an easy one. I think the difference in the two positions is really underbilled.

Safeties play so far off and rarely get pure man responsibilities, they have to see the field, whereas most corners are pretty much locked in on one guy.

Sure, zone corners are a bit different but still typically locking onto one guy (then moving to the next.)

Charles Woodson was a good example. Elite corner and slot corner who was really ineffective at the safety position. There's a reason the Packers let him go despite dire need at safety and him being a major team leader.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Charles Godfrey started because wasn't the worst safety on the roster. And he's almost certain to be cut. I wouldn't count him as an example.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Im surprised that Zachsaints isn't on here pimping his boy Bucannon yet, had a very nice showing today.
He had a solid combine, thats for sure. Tied for 3rd at the 40, Tied for 3rd on the bench, Tied for 3rd on the vert, 2nd on long jump, 3rd on 3 cone drill, 8th at 20 yard shuttle.... I didnt get to watch the combine because of school, but did he do well in position drills?



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Agreed, but he somewhat makes up for that with good positioning. Always seems to be around the ball and despite some rough transitions when changing direction he still usually manages to put himself in position to make a play. He has pretty good balls skills when he is able to come downhill on the ball as well.
I think he can carve a niche as a pretty decent SS in the league. If he gets in the right scheme with a good pass rush he can certainly capitalize on shorter routes to create turnovers.
I think he is going to be a pro bowl caliber, in a defense where it will let him roam some. He has the instincts, ball skills, and is always around it. Sure, he sometimes goes for the big hit, but who doesnt? Not many people form tackle anymore.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Or you can look at it as 8 (that I've found so far) out of 64 starters have made that transition. Commonality would not be a word I'd use to describe that.
I don't think anyone is talking about moving CB to SS. So no, 64 doesn't fit the equation.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone is talking about moving CB to SS. So no, 64 doesn't fit the equation.
Many teams, including my Lions consider SS/FS interchangeable. A lot of that argument will depend on the team. But, many teams play SS and FS in similar roles.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Isn't that why teams do their research. If he goes anywhere near the top 10, I'd say it is a non issue, if he falls then we can assume pro teams see it as a possible problem.

Occasional verbal fights with teammates isn't that uncommon on a football team, I've seen Brady and Peyton go at it with teammates, sometimes it just happens in the stress of the moment. Again, teams will check it out to see if it's a non issue or not. We simply don't have access to those kinds of details.
What I'm saying it the fighting with teamates part is a non issue as far as I can tell. Teamates and coaches have gotten on HIM for antics on the field with opponents and refs. In other words, there didn't appear to be any inherent beef with teamates or any conflicts that he initiated. But damn, the dude needs tension ball.
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Many teams, including my Lions consider SS/FS interchangeable. A lot of that argument will depend on the team. But, many teams play SS and FS in similar roles.
Asomougha converted to CB from FS and became the best in the NFL for a period of time.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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Many of those awful corners who got converted to safeties are still terrible safeties. There's just a lack of talent in the secondary in the NFL so they have jobs. That doesn't mean anything.

And some of the listed names weren't slow. I'm talking about slow CBs. If you run 4.65, I don't care if you get moved to safety, you're still lacking the range that an ideal safety needs. Can you get the job done? Sure, there are always exceptions.

But Bill Parcells put it best: If you start making exceptions, you'll have a team full of exceptions, and exceptions don't win very often.

So hey, you can make a case for it sure, you can make a case for anything in the draft, there are examples of guys who shouldn't succeed who made it all the time. But that doesn't make it a good idea.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Which DBs in this draft.... CB or S can you confidently rely on putting in single high?
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Which DBs in this draft.... CB or S can you confidently rely on putting in single high?
Ha Ha and Jimmie Ward come to mind as far as safeties. I think that Justin Gilbert would be perfect for a role like that.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I would say Clinton-Dix and Gilbert, with Roby being a possibility just because of his athleticism. I know that isn't many, but those are the guys I think that definitely could take on that kind of responsibility. There aren't many guys in the NFL that can.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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I would say Clinton-Dix and Gilbert, with Roby being a possibility just because of his athleticism. I know that isn't many, but those are the guys I think that definitely could take on that kind of responsibility. There aren't many guys in the NFL that can.
There really isn't. That's why I think the value to draft one early is so warranted and most college safeties just don't have the skillset to come into the NFL and do it.

I like to consider Joyner in that discussion, but I agree with those names you mentioned and agree that there are only a very few.

Properly addressing this position almost requires an exception. Screw Bill Parcells and his comment about exceptions. I mean it makes sense to not have a team of exceptions, but this one is an outlier to that comment imo.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Jimmie Ward was easily the best single-high safety I saw this season. Watch his bowl game against Utah State if you get the chance. He was all over the field. Absolutely perfect in deep coverage - flawless angles, remarkable range, big hits. He was locked up in man coverage (on slot WR's) nine times, and in those plays he allowed zero catches but did have 1 interception.

You can also find plays where he's taking on offensive linemen, TE's, and FB's - and holding his own.

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Because of the concerns surrounding his size, I want to highlight that I count seven plays where Ward engages with either an O-lineman or a TE. Of those seven plays, he’s only moved off his spot once—and that was the play where he dealt with an O-lineman and a FB
Back on focus, though, I was really disappointed when Ward couldn't participate in the combine. He's one of my very favorite players in this draft, and I think he's the best DB in the class (CB or S). If I were trying to emulate Seattle's D, he'd be the one player in the draft I had to have - because of his natural ability to play single-high. He's one of the smartest, most instinctual DB's I've seen at the college level. And when I say his angles are perfect, I'm only slightly exaggerating.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Many of those awful corners who got converted to safeties are still terrible safeties. There's just a lack of talent in the secondary in the NFL so they have jobs. That doesn't mean anything.
I agree that you can't pigeon hole guys based on their timed speed and more times then not an average player is an average player regardless if you move them or not.

It comes down to talent at the end of the day and getting your best 11 players on the field. For all of the terrible conversions you mention there are plenty of successes to, look at Tyvon Branch, Jarius Byrd and Eric Weddle who are a few of the best in the league. It all comes down to the architecture of the defense and the supporting cast. Seattle has done a fantastic job of plugging guys in to fit their scheme. With guys getting hurt and suspended they still found a way to remain successful because they have role specific players through out.

Personally in the pass happy NFL I am pro CB/FS conversions because I'm of the belief that you need that position to be able to handle both man and zone coverages to be effective. With the in the box safety becoming extinct, the SS position is beginning to look more like a traditional FS. Lines are blurring between the positions and is a about getting your best four DB's on the field.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by E_Bird View Post
Jimmie Ward was easily the best single-high safety I saw this season. Watch his bowl game against Utah State if you get the chance. He was all over the field. Absolutely perfect in deep coverage - flawless angles, remarkable range, big hits. He was locked up in man coverage (on slot WR's) nine times, and in those plays he allowed zero catches but did have 1 interception.

You can also find plays where he's taking on offensive linemen, TE's, and FB's - and holding his own.



Back on focus, though, I was really disappointed when Ward couldn't participate in the combine. He's one of my very favorite players in this draft, and I think he's the best DB in the class (CB or S). If I were trying to emulate Seattle's D, he'd be the one player in the draft I had to have - because of his natural ability to play single-high. He's one of the smartest, most instinctual DB's I've seen at the college level. And when I say his angles are perfect, I'm only slightly exaggerating.
Where does the foot injury leave him in the draft? Any chance he falls to round 2?
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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Where does the foot injury leave him in the draft? Any chance he falls to round 2?
I think it depends on his Pro Day. I read a report that said he was consistently running in the 4.4's. If he's able to put up a strong showing, I think there's a good chance he'll go somewhere in the 1st. If he just has an adequate showing, seems like he'll go in the 2nd. I'm higher on him than most.

Gun to my head, I'd bet he goes in the 2nd.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
Where does the foot injury leave him in the draft? Any chance he falls to round 2?
Yep all the way to Philly. Back off....
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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