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Old 02-26-2014, 02:53 PM    (permalink
StorminNorman
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I can't find a consistent 40 time for Robiskie. The NFL .com combine results page says 4.59, but other sites have him at 4.46 and 4.49. Is it possible 4.46 was his unofficial time?

Either way I don't agree with the statement that Matthews doesn't play up to his 40 time. He wasn't asked to stretch the field often because he was the team's only reliable receiver and I honestly don't know that his QBs could throw it that far. I've seen him run away from defenders enough to believe his 4.46 was legit.
I'm fairly certain Robiskie ran a sub 4.5 - I recall because he was the first player that I didn't watch in college but fell in love with in draft analysis who utterly disappointed in the NFL. You never forget your first.

Yes, Matthews wasn't asked to stretch the field often (almost half his targets were screens) but more troubling was that his YAC on non-screen passes was a little over 4 yards. That concerns me.

Matthews could end up being a very capable possession NFL receiver (though there are reason to be concerned about his hands in that role), but to me his greatest appeal is the sense that he is a "safe" pick due to his work habits - he's a good kid who I think earned the respect of everyone who watches SEC ball, he's easy too like and root for. While I love all of that in a player, I think we would be overdrafting him by taking him in the top of the second - especially with the talent in this draft.

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Old 02-26-2014, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I'm fairly certain Robiskie ran a sub 4.5 - I recall because he was the first player that I didn't watch in college but fell in love with in draft analysis who utterly disappointed in the NFL. You never forget your first.

Yes, Matthews wasn't asked to stretch the field often (almost half his targets were screens) but more troubling was that his YAC on non-screen passes was a little over 4 yards. That concerns me.

Matthews could end up being a very capable possession NFL receiver (though there are reason to be concerned about his hands in that role), but to me his greatest appeal is the sense that he is a "safe" pick due to his work habits - he's a good kid who I think earned the respect of everyone who watches SEC ball, he's easy too like and root for. While I love all of that in a player, I think we would be overdrafting him by taking him in the top of the second - especially with the talent in this draft.
We have the 13th pick in Round 2 (pick 45). I wouldn't call it the top of Round 2.
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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We have the 13th pick in Round 2 (pick 45). I wouldn't call it the top of Round 2.
Okay, I wouldn't be enthused about taking Matthews in the second round at all. Not in this draft.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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BPA in first. Mack, Matthews, Lewan, Gilbert/Dennard, or Mike Evans. I'm warming up to Evans as being our pick.

2nd- pray for Verrett or Fuller to still be there for corner
3rd- Moncrief or equivalent
4th- Center

I am intrigued by having another top tackle for a young and talented oline. I would love a linebacker too. Mike Evans is a decent pick because he is the closest to a sure thing in our offense. However I do like the idea of having a top talent at a weaker draft position.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Mike Evans is a decent pick because he is the closest to a sure thing in our offense.
Why would you say that?
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Size/speed combo and catch radius. He'll put points on the board and allow us to keep up with Green Bay.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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I'm fairly certain Robiskie ran a sub 4.5 - I recall because he was the first player that I didn't watch in college but fell in love with in draft analysis who utterly disappointed in the NFL. You never forget your first.

Yes, Matthews wasn't asked to stretch the field often (almost half his targets were screens) but more troubling was that his YAC on non-screen passes was a little over 4 yards. That concerns me.

Matthews could end up being a very capable possession NFL receiver (though there are reason to be concerned about his hands in that role), but to me his greatest appeal is the sense that he is a "safe" pick due to his work habits - he's a good kid who I think earned the respect of everyone who watches SEC ball, he's easy too like and root for. While I love all of that in a player, I think we would be overdrafting him by taking him in the top of the second - especially with the talent in this draft.
His greatest appeal is that he was able to consistently be very productive despite being the only weapon on his offense. Defenses schemed specifically for him and he was still the among the leaders in the nation in production with a mediocre at best QB. In the SEC none the less.

That's just his stats, his measurables beats most guys in the draft. 6'3, great 40, the biggest hands in the draft and has some of the longer arms in the draft.

His work ethic is simply the sprinkles on top. I'm sorry but I think you're way off on your comp. Robiskie played on a more talented team, in a worse division and his junior and senior year combined yards are less than Mathews senior year alone. Don't get me wrong I was high on him as well when he was coming out, but a comparable 40 time (depending on your source) and similar height doesn't make for a fair comp.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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His greatest appeal is that he was able to consistently be very productive despite being the only weapon on his offense. Defenses schemed specifically for him and he was still the among the leaders in the nation in production with a mediocre at best QB. In the SEC none the less.

That's just his stats, his measurables beats most guys in the draft. 6'3, great 40, the biggest hands in the draft and has some of the longer arms in the draft.

His work ethic is simply the sprinkles on top. I'm sorry but I think you're way off on your comp. Robiskie played on a more talented team, in a worse division and his junior and senior year combined yards are less than Mathews senior year alone. Don't get me wrong I was high on him as well when he was coming out, but a comparable 40 time (depending on your source) and similar height doesn't make for a fair comp.
I'd like to be wrong with Matthews, and if the Lions draft him - I'll quickly become one of his biggest supporters. But I fear he will struggle to create separation in the NFL game, show little ability to gain yards after the catch and will be a career fourth receiver. But hey, I'd rather have him as the Lions number 2 receiver than Kris Durham.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I'm with you guys, there are other guys I'd take. Paul Richardson for one but in the third. Robert Herron. Davante Adams. Allen Robinson. Matthews appealed to me early from the first write-ups. Perhaps, after I get some more info and watch some clips...just hedging on this guy.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm trying to decide on who I actually want us to grab...

Any predictions for the top 10 drafted?

I won't necessarily put team names to account for trades
1) Blake Bortles
2) Jadeveon Clowney
3) Johnny Manziel
4) Teddy Bridgewater
5) Sammy Watkins
6) Greg Robinson
then it kind of trails off

7) Jake Matthews? Khalil Mack?

Between Jake, Mack, Gilbert/Darqueze, Evans, Lewan, Mosley, Clinton-Dix, Ebron; three will be taken before us.

My board of those guys
1) Jake Matthews
2) Khalil Mack
3) Jumbled mess that I'm fine with going most any direction...

... I would like to take Jake or Khalil because it will set us up well to go corner, wide receiver, center, then another wide receiver late. We'll be able to take another wide receiver later in the draft as a speed type or jump ball guy.

Starting elite LT/OLB, corner, wide, center, wide, then the rest for whatever.

I like Reiff, its just that Matthews would take us to another level.

And Mike Evans is tailor-made for Stafford. Jump ball monster with speed/length combo to run the vertical go/back shoulder route.

Position depth at wide receiver and corner should be exploited.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Jake Matthews and Khalil Mack are almost assuredly going to be gone by the time we're picking.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Jake Matthews and Khalil Mack are almost assuredly going to be gone by the time we're picking.
top ten prediction?
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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top ten prediction?
I agree that Kalil and Matthews are likely gone.

Jacksonville, Oakland, Atlanta, Tampa, even Buffalo could all use Kalil.

St. Louis, Atlanta, Oakland (sans Veldheer), Tampa, Buffalo could all use Matthews.

I think Kalil could be a top 3 pick depending on how Jacksonville views Bridgewater and Manziel.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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I gotta think 3 QBs, 2 OTs, 2 pass rushers and Watkins go in front of us. After that you have Barr,Lewan,Gilbert,Evans,Ebron and maybe Donald vying for the other 3 spots in the top 10. Some might include Dennard and the safeties. Maybe even Mosley
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Minnesota is an interesting wild card. Could go Mack should he fall, could go Gilbert, could go Mike Evans to play Vincent Jackson for Norv Turner, could go Derek Carr this high if they really like him.

I'm pretty confident in Bortles being the first QB off the board (though not necessarily him at Houston), but Bridgewater and Manziel are interesting. For what its worth, the narrative I've seen is that team scouts are much lower on Bridgewater than media scouts and Manziel is just a wild card.

Would love to see Johnny Football in Oakland.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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It would be nice if someone fell in love with Jimmy G like Ponder from a couple years ago.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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If you guys have been listening to the talking heads, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater and Carr are all being considered and talked to. That doesn't mean didley but 4 QB's could go. Just to be safe, three. Three OT's could go but two at least. Watkins and Clowney... So, 3 QB's, 2 OT's, 1 WR, 1 DE....7 guys. That leaves Barr, one of the tackles, Ebron, Gilbert, Dennard, Pryor, Clinton-Dix, Ealy, Ford and Mack as reasonable targets for eight, nine and ten.

extrapolating...Minnesota needs a QB and a DE. They will not pay Jared Allen. To me they go Ealy or Ford or the fourth QB at #8.

Buffalo needs an offensive weapon, an offensive tackle or an impact defensive player. In my mind, they would take the tackle or Ebron but Mack has some appeal.

So now, I feel we at least have a chance at Mack.
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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If you guys have been listening to the talking heads, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater and Carr are all being considered and talked to. That doesn't mean didley but 4 QB's could go. Just to be safe, three. Three OT's could go but two at least. Watkins and Clowney... So, 3 QB's, 2 OT's, 1 WR, 1 DE....7 guys. That leaves Barr, one of the tackles, Ebron, Gilbert, Dennard, Pryor, Clinton-Dix, Ealy, Ford and Mack as reasonable targets for eight, nine and ten.

extrapolating...Minnesota needs a QB and a DE. They will not pay Jared Allen. To me they go Ealy or Ford or the fourth QB at #8.

Buffalo needs an offensive weapon, an offensive tackle or an impact defensive player. In my mind, they would take the tackle or Ebron but Mack has some appeal.

So now, I feel we at least have a chance at Mack.
I'd say we have zero chance at Mack, when Mayock says he is a better prospect than Clowney, he isn't going to last very long.

8, 9 and 10 will like see Mack and Lewan go 8 and 9 leaving us choosing between Barr, Gilbert, Pryor, Clinton-Dix and Ebron. I don't think Ford or Ealy are in that high tier.

If I was a betting man, I think they go Gilbert unless Pettigrew leaves via FA then Ebron could challenge him.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Mayock is not a GM. Minnesota cannot go with Ponder. They can't.
I don't think any one else takes him, other needs. Biggest threats are Tampa Bay and St. Louis and Buffalo.
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:15 AM    (permalink
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I just have a feeling that some top talent will fall to us like Fairley from a couple years back.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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I absolutely think someone can fall. When you have 6 picks that are basically locked into the top 9 and Mack isn't one of them I think it's not realistic say there is zero chance.

I'd also say there's no reason to say there is zero chance Watkins isn't there either. There's too many things that can alter the draft significantly. Too many teams ahead of us need QBs and there are 3 OTs that are supposed to be better than the 3 OTs who went top 4 last year. There is a legitimate chance that the top 8 picks include 4 QBs, 3 OTs and a DE.

A good chance? ehh not really. but with the depth of this draft and the needs at the top of it, I do think someone will fall that we will not expect to be there. I just hope that person isn't an OT. Personally I think someone will reach for a QB (either Carr or Jimmy G) in the top 10.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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There would be nothing wrong with drafting any one of the top three OT's.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:02 AM    (permalink
fredder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel View Post
There would be nothing wrong with drafting any one of the top three OT's.
I'd prefer not to take Lewan at #10. I really like him as a prospect but I think he carries a similar grade to Gilbert and Ebron and CB/TE are more pressing needs. I would however be fine with taking Matthews or Robinson over Gilbert/Ebron as I feel they're both elite LT prospects and I think their higher grade takes precedence over our needs at CB/TE.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:15 AM    (permalink
StorminNorman
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If we were to somehow pick up a left tackle, I'd be all for moving Reiff, not Waddle, to guard.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:25 AM    (permalink
Brodeur
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There would be nothing wrong with drafting any one of the top three OT's.
Yes there is. We don't need a tackle at all right now.
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