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Old 03-21-2014, 11:38 AM    (permalink
Nastradamus
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
The Cowboys also lack cap space and love restructuring contracts, but it cost them Ware and Hatcher this FA period because they just couldn't come up with the money to keep them. Backloading contracts look good in the immediate but they can cause huge problems down the road.
To some degree this is true, but its much less true when you are talking about core players. Where teams like the Cowboys and Steelers have gotten in trouble of late is by restructuring mid level and/or older players. This gets you in trouble because you end up either cutting them and taking a big dead money hit or keeping them due to their cap hit and having bad players in key roles. An example I mentioned before is Calvin this year. A restructure would save us 4 million dollars(roughly) and cost us an extra 800K on each additional year of his contract. It would all be accelerated if you were to cut him, which would hurt a little,but I think if you get to the point of cutting Calvin,Stafford or Suh, you have bigger issues than the one year dead money hit.

Restructuring guys like Calvin,SUh and Stafford is almost all win for the team, and player. With Suh, because of his position and his old CBA deal got to a position where you couldn't franchise him. That's the one potential negative, but normally you are restructuring guys on their second deal who you won't be looking to franchise. You just move on towards the end of the new deal or they have to take an actual paycut, not a restructure.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Suh restructured his contract twice in 2012 and 2013. They have to backload or give him a ton of guaranteed money (signing bonus then option bonus like Calvin did 16 SB in 2012 and 20 million Option bonus in 2013). 9.7 is the starting cap number in 2014 and 2015. Any base salary or signing bonus is added to that number each year. I'll say 5 /65 million extension 13 million per year too. But like you said, it's spread over 6 years.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Here's an example to front load but they have to give him 36 million in guaranteed over the first 2 years

Looking at a DE money deal (13 million per season), the Lions could structure Suh’s contract to deal with his remaining 9.8 and 9.7 million restructure bonuses on his cap number in 2014 and 2015. Giving Suh a 5 year 65 million dollar deal extension (on top of the remaining year) with a 20 million signing bonus (5 million more than Atkins) could give the Lions cap saving.

If the Lions made Suh’s base salary 5 million in 2014, 4 million allocation from the signing bonus and 9.8 million restructure bonus allocation, Suh’s cap number would be reduced to 18.8 million in 2014 (a creation of 3.6 million in cap space for Detroit). This is a similar structure to the Calvin Johnson deal except Calvin gets more base salary over the years. Calvin got 36 million in bonus money (16 signing and 20 million option bonus in year 2).

Year 2, Detroit could lower his base salary to 1 million and give Suh an option bonus (10 million) for the remaining years on his contract (5 years remaining). This would make Suh’s cap number 16.7 million in 2015 factoring in the 4 million signing bonus allocation(20/5), 9.7 in restructure money and 2 million in option bonus allocation (10/5). This keeps Suh happy because he still gets 36 million (similar to Calvin) in his pocket in 2 years on top the monster rookie deal he already got.

The bonuses and first 2 years base salary eat up 36 million of the 65 million dollars over 2 years. 36 million is a ridiculous amount of guaranteed money for a DT but would not hurt the Lions if Suh remains a Lion. The remaining 4 years of the contract the Lions would need 29 million in base salary and roster/workout bonuses but the restructure allocation money will be off the books. Suh’s cap number could be 13.25 million in 2016-2018 if (base salary is spread out evenly of 7.25 million (21.25/3) plus 6 million in allocations) and 9.25 million in 2019 (only base 7.25 and option bonus allocation 2 million). Suh would have dead money of 20 million in 2016, 14 million in 2017, 8 million in 2018 and 2 million in 2019.

Therefore, Suh would be able to be cut in 2017, essentially tying the Lions to Suh for 3 years, maybe 4 since his 2017 cap number would be lower than his 2017 dead money number. This is a great front loaded deal for Suh and the Lions highest cap number would be in 2014 when cap space (other than 3.6 million as mentioned) is unneeded. Suh’s average cap hit would be 14.1 million.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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The trick is basically you get to start allocating the new signing bonus starting in the last year of the old deal (2014, 2012 in Calvin's case) and then you can make the base salary what you want (usually start low). Smart to start the base low with the cap expected to raise. But with the Lions not needing as much space in 2014 (free agency essentially over), the Lions can make year 1 base bigger than year 2 (this is what they did with Stafford, and why his cap number is lower in 2014 than it is in 2013).

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Old 03-21-2014, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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To some degree this is true, but its much less true when you are talking about core players. Where teams like the Cowboys and Steelers have gotten in trouble of late is by restructuring mid level and/or older players. This gets you in trouble because you end up either cutting them and taking a big dead money hit or keeping them due to their cap hit and having bad players in key roles. An example I mentioned before is Calvin this year. A restructure would save us 4 million dollars(roughly) and cost us an extra 800K on each additional year of his contract. It would all be accelerated if you were to cut him, which would hurt a little,but I think if you get to the point of cutting Calvin,Stafford or Suh, you have bigger issues than the one year dead money hit.

Restructuring guys like Calvin,SUh and Stafford is almost all win for the team, and player. With Suh, because of his position and his old CBA deal got to a position where you couldn't franchise him. That's the one potential negative, but normally you are restructuring guys on their second deal who you won't be looking to franchise. You just move on towards the end of the new deal or they have to take an actual paycut, not a restructure.
You may be right, their youth might play in the Lion's favour, but at some point, I believe it starts to catch up with you sooner or later, injuries can play a major part or just diminishing skills, either way, I just hope Mayhew is careful and can keep it under control long enough to get at least one championship.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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https://twitter.com/ttwentyman/statu...46083899006976

Lions decline 5th year option (5.5mil) on Nick Fairley, making him a free agent next season.

I'm not sure how I feel about this.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Backloading probably isn't a great way to put it fwiw. What is this 9.7 mil in restructure money you're talking about? What am I missing?

I think he's going to get 7 years for 100 million, but the 22 from this year will be included in that figure. So basically, a 6/78 extension, 13 per year. That seems plenty fair. Suh can call it a big win by getting 100 mil and we can structure it to our favor so its a win for us too.

Suh restructured his contract twice (2012 and 2013 seasons). 9.8 of his cap figure is based on that this year which is why it's 22 million and not like 13 million. 9.7 will be on his cap number for 2015 already so that is why they will backload base salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/ndamukong-suh/

See 2015 for Suh. That 9.7 is there no matter what (unless a trade)

I agree 6 years 78 million extension (but spread out over 7 years, including 2014. Similar to Calvin deal. Or 5 years 65 million (spread out over 6 years)
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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https://twitter.com/ttwentyman/statu...46083899006976

Lions decline 5th year option (5.5mil) on Nick Fairley, making him a free agent next season.

I'm not sure how I feel about this.
Motivation for Fairley. He is not worth 5.5 million in 2015 right now. If they extend Suh, it's the right call on Fairley for 2014.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Motivation for Fairley. He is not worth 5.5 million in 2015 right now. If they extend Suh, it's the right call on Fairley for 2014.
I agree, let Fairley prove he is worth big $$$'s.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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5.5 isn't that much, but I get the move.

We signed Ihedigbo officially.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Lions signed Ihedigbo to a 2 year deal. Very good signing and no needs at starting safety now but could get a mid round rookie for depth. Isa Abdul Quddus and Carey have both playing time experience. Carey was actually solid in 2012 at safety. Carey stinks as a nickel CB as we saw last year in Steelers and Giants games.

Love the two extra 4ths too.
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Old 03-25-2014, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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Lions signed Ihedigbo to a 2 year deal. Very good signing and no needs at starting safety now but could get a mid round rookie for depth. Isa Abdul Quddus and Carey have both playing time experience. Carey was actually solid in 2012 at safety. Carey stinks as a nickel CB as we saw last year in Steelers and Giants games.

Love the two extra 4ths too.
I won't completely rule out drafting a Safety somewhere, Ihedigbo isn't exactly a solid starter just yet, but I do like the signing.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:43 AM    (permalink
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I agree I think a safety in the middle rounds is a very good possibility. Both Ihedigbo and Quin are very solid veterans who also are high character guys. Getting a young safety to work behind them and develop should be a must IMO. Not saying we use a high pick but anywhere in the 3rd or with our 3 4ths.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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-Jared Allen to the Bears
-Shaun Hill to the Rams

Wish they could have found a way to keep Hill.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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-Jared Allen to the Bears
-Shaun Hill to the Rams

Wish they could have found a way to keep Hill.
That's the problem when your cap situation is kept close to the limit, good guys have to go and the GM and HC just pray it doesn't come back to bite them in the ass, should Stafford get injured.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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That's the problem when your cap situation is kept close to the limit, good guys have to go and the GM and HC just pray it doesn't come back to bite them in the ass, should Stafford get injured.
You know what's funny. When we had Hill, Stafford was healthy for 3 of 4 years. Now that Hill is gone, and we get some bad vet backup, now is when Stafford will go down and we'll need that backup. That would be a typical Lions luck. And 2010 even Hill got hurt.
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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Desean Jackson released by Eagles. Instant #2
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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We aren't touching DJax. Sounds like an Aaron Hernandez meets Titus Young situation. I'm certainly intrigued by him as a player, but we aren't in position to make that move.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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We aren't touching DJax. Sounds like an Aaron Hernandez meets Titus Young situation. I'm certainly intrigued by him as a player, but we aren't in position to make that move.
When did Desean Jackson become a combination of a murderer and a player who deliberately sabotaged his team? I think you're exaggerating the situation a little bit.

I do agree that we shouldn't be interested though.
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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He is an instant starter for several teams drafting in front of us. Sammy come on down.
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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He's a mouthy and arrogant prick who only thinks of himself and has gang affiliations.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:51 AM    (permalink
WMD
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He's a mouthy and arrogant prick who only thinks of himself and has gang affiliations.
You could say that about a ton of athletes..
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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When did Desean Jackson become a combination of a murderer and a player who deliberately sabotaged his team? I think you're exaggerating the situation a little bit.

I do agree that we shouldn't be interested though.
Well he got cut because of not working hard, skipping meetings and having poor chemistry with his coach. Doesn't sound too far off deliberate sabotage to me.

and much like Hernandez, he is affiliated with gang members who are connected to murder. I'm not saying he is a murderer(AH hasn't been convicted yet either fwiw), but I think the Pats would go back in time and not sign Hernandez if they could. THat's really my point. Don't sign a guy with that kind of affiliation and then be surprised when something bad happens and you are left to deal with the consequences.
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Well, we don't have the cap space to sign him anyways, but for the Eagles to make him a FA after an 82 receptions, 1300 yard season, you know he has to be a total jerk and a person who simply doesn't care about winning, for that to happen.
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Old 03-30-2014, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Well, we don't have the cap space to sign him anyways, but for the Eagles to make him a FA after an 82 receptions, 1300 yard season, you know he has to be a total jerk and a person who simply doesn't care about winning, for that to happen.
Pretty much true, but at the same time he has consistently produced in his career and his team made the playoffs last year with him as one of their biggest stars. I don't think you can write him off completely.

We are limited by our cap, but they could pull it off if they wanted. Remember, NO had about zero cap space when they signed the biggest FA of the offseason. Doubt they want to though.
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