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Old 03-26-2014, 10:18 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Tom Haverford
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It happens to all of us. I just throught I was possibly remembering wrong. I'm all for Scotty's idea last night of Evans and Niklas/OL.
I'm good with that too. In a perfect world we trade back and collect another 2nd round pick.

I think there's going to be sick talent in that 2nd round, we should try to stock up on as many 2nd rounders as we can.

And a stud 1st rounder is gonna fall to 18-20 range.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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TE
Defenderdawg : 8:06 am : link
Tom Rockþ@TomRock_Newsday·21s
TC on TEs: "Right now it's a question mark."

Jordan Raananþ@JordanRaanan·28 secs
Coughlin on tight end position: 'We have to make something happen there'
HOF
Defenderdawg : 8:10 am : link
Bart Hubbuchþ@HubbuchNYP·34 secs
Coughlin on his HOF chances after winning two Super Bowls: "I think it merits consideration, but that’s as far as I’ll go."

Ian Rapoportþ@RapSheet·11 secs
Tom Coughlin says, after Hall of Fame discussion, he believes his 2 Super Bowls "merit consideration. That's as far as I'll go."
Sanchez, Nassib
Defenderdawg : 8:14 am : link
Bart Hubbuchþ@HubbuchNYP·23 secs
Coughlin on if the Giants are interested in Mark Sanchez: "I haven’t talked to anyone about that."

Bart Hubbuchþ@HubbuchNYP·24 secs
Coughlin on Ryan Nassib: "I think he’s going to be a good player. This is going to be an important year for him and for the Giants."

Tom Rock‏@TomRock_Newsday·27 secs
TC very high on Nassib, but doesn't rule out keeping 3 QBs again.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I would love not carrying 3 QBs. I just don't get it. If Eli gets hurt our season is done anyway. It doesn't matter if Nassib, Painter, Sorgi, or whatever backup they've had in the past plays. And If Nassib plays a week and is god awful, they can always go sign a veteran at that point. Would it really matter?
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:30 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Yeah I hate carrying 3 qbs.
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Old 03-26-2014, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I thought we could carry 2 now that we have Nassib. I wouldn't carry 3 QBs.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we should just throw in the flag bc Eli goes down. I like the idea of having capable backups with potential to be something. The jury is still out on Nassib but another late round developmental type I'm not opposed to.

I think Cruz, Randle, JJ, and Mario gives us a similar situation as what we have going at CB. We could take Evans but I just don't see us using a pick on WR until rounds 2 or 3. Just like I can't see Gilbert in the 1st but a CB in the next few rounds a possibility.

TE has a huge hole but we haven't stacked up the DL like we have in years passed. I think we'll go DL early.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't think we should just throw in the flag bc Eli goes down. I like the idea of having capable backups with potential to be something. The jury is still out on Nassib but another late round developmental type I'm not opposed to.

I think Cruz, Randle, JJ, and Mario gives us a similar situation as what we have going at CB. We could take Evans but I just don't see us using a pick on WR until rounds 2 or 3. Just like I can't see Gilbert in the 1st but a CB in the next few rounds a possibility.

TE has a huge hole but we haven't stacked up the DL like we have in years passed. I think we'll go DL early.
I'm ok with drafting qbs in the late rounds every year. The Ron Wolf rule. I just hate spending money on backup qbs. Your backup should be a cheap rookie deal. There's no point in paying someone 2 to 4 million bucks a year to never play a snap in a best case scenario.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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We don't have the luxury to stack up the DL. The driving force of this team is the offense and we have a lot of areas to upgrade. I think in the later rounds we go DE or DT, but this year is a make or break for Eli and the coaching staff. Another very bad year, and I can see the coaching staff fired. I can see us not wanting to re-sign Eli, who is 33 and will be 34 next season. If we wanted to cut bait on Eli, we could let his contract life expire, and chose not to re-sign him.

So they need to go balls out to offensively upgrade the personnel.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm ok with drafting qbs in the late rounds every year. The Ron Wolf rule. I just hate spending money on backup qbs. Your backup should be a cheap rookie deal. There's no point in paying someone 2 to 4 million bucks a year to never play a snap in a best case scenario.
Yea I definitely agree with that.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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You can never have too much DL NYG!

We won 2 SBs with a relentless DL. I'll always be in favor of upgrading the DL.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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You can never have too much DL NYG!

We won 2 SBs with a relentless DL. I'll always be in favor of upgrading the DL.
Or OL and Cbs... Yeah but we had a solid OL too. Without our offense, our defense wouldn't do much. Just look at last year. Our defense was decent but our offense was beyond bad. Plus it was that relentlessness of going after DL and drafting project OL picks which caused all this.

Think about Reese's theory. You have your front 5 OL guys who were good and never missed games. So we went DL, and drafted developmental OL. The theory was when our guys got old and retired, our developmental guys who slip in and start. We continue drafting DL and everything is fine.

BUT... It failed epically! Our OL failed because of age, degradation of talent, AND injuries leaving our project, developmental guys not ready to start. Uh oh... Meanwhile our DE got hurt or got older. Hence a losing record in a decade.

The goal needs to be fix the offense. The defense is fine for now. But if the offense fails, it will cost the QB AND the coaching staff their jobs.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Our Dline situation is actually a little scary at the moment. Don't be surprised if the first couple of picks are here.

At DE we have JPP (coming back from injury who hasn't played anywhere near expectations since 2011 and in a contract year), Kiwanuka (who is solid but was a non-factor last season) and (Moore who has flashed ability, but has a lot of development to go. It says a lot that despite our terrible pass rush, Moore was unable to get on the field much as a situational pass rusher on obvious passing situations).

At DT we have Jenkins (who is a solid older vet who may need to play reps at LDE), Hankins (a solid youngster who didn't get much game action last year and we hope can step in for Joseph) and Kuhn (who is a former 7th rounder who is solid but nothing spectacular and had has injury issues).

We haven't been able to sign solid free agents for the DL and I know we were expecting to resign Tuck. But there is a urgent need to address these positions.

From a contract view, Kiwanuka, Jenkins and Kuhn all are off contract after 2015 and it usually takes a year for DT to work their way into a starting role.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Or OL and Cbs... Yeah but we had a solid OL too. Without our offense, our defense wouldn't do much. Just look at last year. Our defense was decent but our offense was beyond bad. Plus it was that relentlessness of going after DL and drafting project OL picks which caused all this.

Think about Reese's theory. You have your front 5 OL guys who were good and never missed games. So we went DL, and drafted developmental OL. The theory was when our guys got old and retired, our developmental guys who slip in and start. We continue drafting DL and everything is fine.

BUT... It failed epically! Our OL failed because of age, degradation of talent, AND injuries leaving our project, developmental guys not ready to start. Uh oh... Meanwhile our DE got hurt or got older. Hence a losing record in a decade.

The goal needs to be fix the offense. The defense is fine for now. But if the offense fails, it will cost the QB AND the coaching staff their jobs.
The failure was a lack of development on the offensive line in particular.

A classic example being passing Cordy Glenn for David Wilson, instead of getting a stud Oline that we can play multiple positions, we went for a RB to try and add a flash to the ground game.

You can get effective RBs in later rounds. In my opinion you are better getting the quality oline to make holes for solid RBs rather than elite RBs behind solid Olines.

Take 2012 for example, we drafted David Wilson in the first round and Brandon Mosley in the 4th round. We could have had Cordy Glenn in the first round and RBs like Robert Turbin in the 3rd or Vick Ballard and Alfred Morris who were available for our 5th round pick.


I don't agree that the defense is fine, there is a big problem up front.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Well Cordy Glenn would have been good. I had no issue with Wilson. I think he is explosive. He didn't have to pass block as well in college. So why draft a guy and put him in a system where he has to learn how to do something that is a weakness? It slows down development. Just like why sign Myers, a WCO TE, to be used in a system that's not the WCO offense? LOL.

The DL has: 2 first rounder, 1 second rounder, Cullen Jenkins, a 3rd rounder and Kuhn, who we liked so much we kept over Rodgers, right or wrong. That's a lot of top picks. We can draft a DT later on or sign one later. We can bring undrafted FAs too.

3/5 OL positions are uncertain. LT, C and RG. We have no TE, our WRs are suspect and 1 free agent signed RB. That's a very shaky offense from top to bottom.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I hate offense. **** offense.

The fact that we're gonna spend another 1st round pick on offense makes me want to puke.

Disgusting.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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Who cares what round are DL draft picks were taken? It matters if going into this year how good they will be and we have a lot of question marks there also. Kiwi a 1st rounder is past his prime, JPP a 1st rounder has one amazing year and then has been hurt, our 2nd rounder played limited snaps and looked but we have no idea if he can fill Linval's shoes. Just as many questions on the DL as the OL but with bigger names.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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I hate offense. **** offense.

The fact that we're gonna spend another 1st round pick on offense makes me want to puke.

Disgusting.
Too bad it's an offensive, passing league now. For our team, specifically offense runs the show. And right now, like Mara said, it's broken. Can't have too many pass rushers? Cute saying right? We said it because the offense had talent, and had their OL in tact. No need to draft Joe Staley. We had a very good OL, Plax, Toomer, Nicks, Mario, Bradshaw, and Jacobs. So as a cute luxury you draft DEs. Wow fun, look at us, all these DEs. Then, oops. Offense broke. Now we need to go hardcore and fix it. No more can't have enough pass rushers. We did that and let the offensive side of the ball break. So now we need to fix it. Why? If we have a worse year, TC and staff get fired, and we don't re-sign Eli.

That's what it comes down to, like it or not. This is on Reese and Ross. Is Ross ever going to have a good draft?
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Who cares what round are DL draft picks were taken? It matters if going into this year how good they will be and we have a lot of question marks there also. Kiwi a 1st rounder is past his prime, JPP a 1st rounder has one amazing year and then has been hurt, our 2nd rounder played limited snaps and looked but we have no idea if he can fill Linval's shoes. Just as many questions on the DL as the OL but with bigger names.
Kiwi doesn't have a lot of milage on him. We moved him around and now finally he gets his shot. JPP is a first rounder with potential. Why doesn't he actually be consistent and prove he isn't a 1 year wonder? We still invested in a 2nd round pick. True, he is proven, but then sign LinJo. He is a solid DT, who would stabilize DT. We let him go. Fine, but they must like Hankins. He was a 2nd rounder, so let's see him play like one. If he fails, call Ross. He better be right on him. He hit on LinJo.

One big difference is our face of the franchise is on offense. We have a hurt LT who played like Poo. New RG. No Center. The guy hasn't played in 2 years. Our RG has 2 hips and 1 elbow. And the only solid guy is Pugh. That's pretty god awful!
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
Too bad it's an offensive, passing league now. For our team, specifically offense runs the show. And right now, like Mara said, it's broken. Can't have too many pass rushers? Cute saying right? We said it because the offense had talent, and had their OL in tact. No need to draft Joe Staley. We had a very good OL, Plax, Toomer, Nicks, Mario, Bradshaw, and Jacobs. So as a cute luxury you draft DEs. Wow fun, look at us, all these DEs. Then, oops. Offense broke. Now we need to go hardcore and fix it. No more can't have enough pass rushers. We did that and let the offensive side of the ball break. So now we need to fix it. Why? If we have a worse year, TC and staff get fired, and we don't re-sign Eli.

That's what it comes down to, like it or not. This is on Reese and Ross. Is Ross ever going to have a good draft?
Seattle just won the SB. Defense still matters.

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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Who cares what round are DL draft picks were taken? It matters if going into this year how good they will be and we have a lot of question marks there also. Kiwi a 1st rounder is past his prime, JPP a 1st rounder has one amazing year and then has been hurt, our 2nd rounder played limited snaps and looked but we have no idea if he can fill Linval's shoes. Just as many questions on the DL as the OL but with bigger names.
This X 10000. We have just as many question marks on the DL as the OL. Our DL is far from a finished product and if the DL sucks next year then guess what? Doesn't matter how good the OL and offense is we're still gonna suck bc if you can't rush the passer you're not going to win games.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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Kiwi doesn't have a lot of milage on him. We moved him around and now finally he gets his shot. JPP is a first rounder with potential. Why doesn't he actually be consistent and prove he isn't a 1 year wonder? We still invested in a 2nd round pick. True, he is proven, but then sign LinJo. He is a solid DT, who would stabilize DT. We let him go. Fine, but they must like Hankins. He was a 2nd rounder, so let's see him play like one. If he fails, call Ross. He better be right on him. He hit on LinJo.

One big difference is our face of the franchise is on offense. We have a hurt LT who played like Poo. New RG. No Center. The guy hasn't played in 2 years. Our RG has 2 hips and 1 elbow. And the only solid guy is Pugh. That's pretty god awful!
Kiwi sucks. He had plenty of time on the DL and he doesn't do a damn thing. He sucks.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Kiwi sucks. He had plenty of time on the DL and he doesn't do a damn thing. He sucks.
We wasted his career. We had a 1st rounder and didn't get the return we wanted. Sure he helped on SB teams, but damn. We mismanaged his career. Not to mention that year, I wanted Mangold. He would have been awesome for us. Groom him behind O'hara, and then not re-sign SO and let Mangold take over.

Instead, we drafted him, and screwed around with his development. How do you develop a guy when you're playing musical positions?
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Seattle just won the SB. Defense still matters.



This X 10000. We have just as many question marks on the DL as the OL. Our DL is far from a finished product and if the DL sucks next year then guess what? Doesn't matter how good the OL and offense is we're still gonna suck bc if you can't rush the passer you're not going to win games.
Yeah they also hit on a lot of their drafts so much so they overcame drafting a bust like Aaron Curry, and managed to pass on the torch from good LB like Lofa T. and build a defense with mid to later round picks. Excellent drafting.

Hey can we hit on 3rd to 5th round picks? Hmm let's see:

Hosley - 3rd
Robinson - 4
Mosley - 4
Chad Jones- 3rd. Not his fault, but again, no return on investment.
Marvin Austin -2
Dillard - 4
Petrus -5
Clint S -2
Barden - 3
Beckum-3
Bomar - 5th



These are our amazing picks. Oh by the way, all under Ross's watch. Dude, no matter what team, you CAN'T whiff this many times and still stay afloat.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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We wasted his career. We had a 1st rounder and didn't get the return we wanted. Sure he helped on SB teams, but damn. We mismanaged his career. Not to mention that year, I wanted Mangold. He would have been awesome for us. Groom him behind O'hara, and then not re-sign SO and let Mangold take over.

Instead, we drafted him, and screwed around with his development. How do you develop a guy when you're playing musical positions?
He still had a solid career. 8 years in the league, that's not easy to do. He was never going to be anything more than he was it seems. He's a 8 sack a season guy on his best day. Solid but nothing spectacular. Very good run defender. He probably should have played in a 3-4 defense.

He had plenty of time to develop on the DL, he just never was that great. Then when it looked like he was going to break out, he injures his neck. Now he's old. Some careers just turn out this way. Still a solid pro. It wasn't a bad pick.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Didn't Mangold go before Kiwi?

I agree 100% we ruined Kiwi by moving him around so much but in the end he was still a good player here and worth the pick. Throw in an untimely injury or two that he had and a possible star has been a slightly above average player in his time here. Only average now.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm with BBD. It's also crazy to say just because it's a passing league that defense isn't important. Like BBD said, Seattle not only won, but DESTROYED the best offense in league history. What does that tell you about how important defense is?

Not to mention, due to defense, we stopped an unbeaten 18-0 team due to an amazing defense, specifically the defensive line. I'd be all for defense, defense, defense in this draft. Get some young OL, get some defense, call it a day. This TE non-sense bothers me. We have so many greater needs at more important positions. Unless all the other positions sucks at the pick we're at, I'd be livid about taking a TE at 12.
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