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Old 04-07-2014, 02:31 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I never knew you disliked 1st round DTs. That's a surprising comment actually. I figured you warm up easily to any position defense, hehe.

I do agree you can't focus on around him. Plus DTs like that are build on their legs and speed. The running joke with our team has always been the guys with lower leg injuries riding the bike during practice. We used to have SO many guys on it the media called it Tour de france guys. lol. If we do draft him we better hope he never gets an injury that messes with his legs. With short arms, and light weight, once OL lock themselves on him, it's over. However, he relies on his low center of gravity and lower legs to explode off the ball.

His whole game low center of gravity which is the cause of his explosive first step. His lower stature worries me a lot. I wish he was 6'3 or 6'4. That helps a lot on 3 step drops and short concept plays. Why? Remember what Mic'd up with brady said about our DL? It's like throwing in a forest! Their arms are.. ::shakes head:: and looks at Wes Welker. Well being short and short arms aren't going to cut it. You can't teach height and speed. Donald has speed but he is short. Which means on short concept plays the QB has B gap to throw over him.

I don't value him enough to draft him. If we draft him, he needs to be playing A LOT to validate that pick at 12. No way can he be player like that especially like I said if teams can get rid of it quickly to negate our pass rush.

We need to learn how to blitz and actually get home on passing downs.


I don't see him as a fit for our defense. I can see the Cowboys drafting him though.
There's disadvantages to his height and length, absolutely. You know I've been a big advocate for height/weight/speed guys on the DL, I always have been and always will want those guys.

Donald's stature also presents him with advantages however. A 6 4" or 6 6" DT isn't going to get the leverage that Donald gets. Low man wins. He's gonna get lower than you almost all the time, and with his driving strength and ability to convert speed to power, he can win. And he wins a lot. And his hand placement and technique are second to none.

He's really a carbon copy of the best DT in the league: Geno Atkins. Geno isn't the biggest or longest DT in the league, but he uses great leverage, technique, and speed converted to power to win more than any DT in the league. Donald can potentially do the same thing.

What I loved about Donald the most (and you'll appreciate this) is how he just dominated the 4th quarter. 4th quarter, money time. This guy just wants it more than anyone in the 4th quarter. You can see him just wear down an OL throughout the game. The OL is exhausted trying to block this guy for 4 quarters, and by the 4th quarter, he's coming at you like he had 7 days of rest with that non stop motor and he just beats the OL to submission with his effort, speed and motor. He dominates 4th quarters.

Every game I studied of him, he absolutely dominated the 4th quarter. He just wore you down. And he made so many plays. He got beat in the 1st quarter from time to time. He got beat in the 2nd. By the time the 4th quarter came by he was winning every snap. He just dominated the 4th.

And if you slide away from him you better pray. He's hitting that gap hard and blowing up the play in the backfield.

He's susceptible to traps and if you run power right at him, which is why I won't say for certain that he can be a 3 down DT just yet (I think he can but I won't say it for sure), but even if this is all he becomes, this guy is worth his value as a pass rusher on 3rd and long. Especially in that 4th quarter.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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DT is definitely a need. Remember how we stacked up at the position last year? It's a position of importance and definitely needs to be addressed with in the first 3 rounds.

I like Donald but I wonder how he fits Fewell. I think Nix is more the DT we'll target.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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There's disadvantages to his height and length, absolutely. You know I've been a big advocate for height/weight/speed guys on the DL, I always have been and always will want those guys.

Donald's stature also presents him with advantages however. A 6 4" or 6 6" DT isn't going to get the leverage that Donald gets. Low man wins. He's gonna get lower than you almost all the time, and with his driving strength and ability to convert speed to power, he can win. And he wins a lot. And his hand placement and technique are second to none.

He's really a carbon copy of the best DT in the league: Geno Atkins. Geno isn't the biggest or longest DT in the league, but he uses great leverage, technique, and speed converted to power to win more than any DT in the league. Donald can potentially do the same thing.

What I loved about Donald the most (and you'll appreciate this) is how he just dominated the 4th quarter. 4th quarter, money time. This guy just wants it more than anyone in the 4th quarter. You can see him just wear down an OL throughout the game. The OL is exhausted trying to block this guy for 4 quarters, and by the 4th quarter, he's coming at you like he had 7 days of rest with that non stop motor and he just beats the OL to submission with his effort, speed and motor. He dominates 4th quarters.

Every game I studied of him, he absolutely dominated the 4th quarter. He just wore you down. And he made so many plays. He got beat in the 1st quarter from time to time. He got beat in the 2nd. By the time the 4th quarter came by he was winning every snap. He just dominated the 4th.

And if you slide away from him you better pray. He's hitting that gap hard and blowing up the play in the backfield.

He's susceptible to traps and if you run power right at him, which is why I won't say for certain that he can be a 3 down DT just yet (I think he can but I won't say it for sure), but even if this is all he becomes, this guy is worth his value as a pass rusher on 3rd and long. Especially in that 4th quarter.

6'3 and 6'4 can have good technique as well. It depends on each individual prospect. I think you need to draft a 3 down guy at 12. I don't want a specialist. He will have to learn to play in the running game. That's what I would do if I played against him. I was thinking about this couple hours ago. I was drawing up ways to block a player like that and what formations I would install going against a player that is explosive like that.

At 12, I expect, if we are dumb enough to draft Donald, which I don't put past Ross, then he better play a lot. I want PT logged in and him playing a lot of the game in the run game and being a force in the pass game. Don't be a specialist. We didn't draft you to be a 1 trick money. You're playing the run and pass and you're going to be in there rotating and being the main guy. If you can't do this, I don't want you at 12.

I have questions on the prospect, and in a draft like this, I don't want a first round DT.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Marcus Martin is my guy. Big enough to play G and experienced at C.
He is ok, but this year we can do better in later rounds. Russell Bodine and Brian Stork should be available on mid day 3
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Pete you gotta stop by and watch a live Giants game!
definately!!
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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DT is a need, but it doesn't have to be in the first round.

I like Kelcy Quarles, Ego Ferguson and Daquan Jones in round 3


For the first round, I think we want a dynamic player.

One guy I believe the front office really likes this year is Anthony Barr as a pass rushing RDE. He reminds me of JPP, he is raw and will need to develop, but has elite speed, quickness and is an explosive player. He fits the kind of player we like as a DE. I wouldn't be that surprised if we traded up to get him.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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DT is definitely a need. Remember how we stacked up at the position last year? It's a position of importance and definitely needs to be addressed with in the first 3 rounds.

I like Donald but I wonder how he fits Fewell. I think Nix is more the DT we'll target.
I agree, I mentioned this a while ago. I think Nix is a better fit for our defence.

Basically we have the same group as last year but without Joseph and Rogers, our biggest two guys.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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And Donald plays a different position than all the DTs we have. Except Patterson really. None of the them are that stud 3 technique that Donald projects to.
Perry Fewell's schemes like bigger guys up front.

Donald is a better fit with Tampa Bay, Chicago, Dallas, Seattle and Jacksonville (who want the same scheme as Seattle)
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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I'm also weary at first round DT's, so many busts.
Yeah, but also most of the truly exceptional DTs have gone high in the draft. Your Randle's, Kyle Williams's and Atkins's are the big time exceptions.

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How do you not see a need when all we have is Jenkins, Hankins, Kuhn, and Patterson? Not exactly that good or deep there and I like Hankins upside potential.
Cause Kuhn is german, and we're awesome...
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Outside of William Joseph in 2003, we haven't gone first round DT in a long time.

We have shown a willingness to invest round 2 picks at DT in Joseph, Austin and Hankins. We all knew Austin was a risk.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:04 AM    (permalink
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If we draft Donald he'll make a fan out of a lot people. That interior pass rush would be huge for us.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:49 AM    (permalink
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If we draft Donald he'll make a fan out of a lot people. That interior pass rush would be huge for us.
I am with you there on Donald. I just think if we went that way we may need to consider another DT as well.

We carried 5 DTs on the roster, I think there is space this year for a pair of rookie DTs with Patterson and Kuhn competing for a roster spot.

Another option could be flexing Jenkins to LDE a little.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Default I'm damn tired

of always worrying about filling the DT spot. Its seems like a draft tradition. I'd rather just get another position in the first. Im so over stressing out about a DT.

Its always a psotion of need, and the ones we draft finally come into their own in their walk years and price themselves out, if they even develop at all.

Yeah, yeah, Nix. Yeah, Yeah, Donald.....whatever. Just give me a LT, Safety, or Ebron. Draft for positions that will see a majority of the sanps and not have to be rotated in and out every three frigging plays cuz they weigh 300 pounds.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Pressure up front solves a lot of problems. I'll always be in favor of having a dominant front 4.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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You sound pretty high on Donald and I like a lot of what you were saying about him, BBD. I would love to have an interior pass rush. Interior pass rush is one of the more underrated things to have on a defense. An offense can slide protection, double team, keep a TE/RB in to adjust to DTs but it's A LOT harder to do that with a really good interior pass rush.

Honestly, in addition to Fewell's crappy blitzes, it may be one of the many reasons or DEs haven't been overly successful. We haven't had an interior pass rush since...Fred Robbins? It becomes much easier to scheme against a team who will be rushing four, and the only pressure will be coming from the outside.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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If he is as good as people say, then I wonder if the Lions take him since they plan on not picking the option on Fairly. So then they'd have Suh and Donald.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Oh, also. I forgot to mention this here...

UCONN MOTHER *******! SUCK IT!
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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You sound pretty high on Donald and I like a lot of what you were saying about him, BBD. I would love to have an interior pass rush. Interior pass rush is one of the more underrated things to have on a defense. An offense can slide protection, double team, keep a TE/RB in to adjust to DTs but it's A LOT harder to do that with a really good interior pass rush.

Honestly, in addition to Fewell's crappy blitzes, it may be one of the many reasons or DEs haven't been overly successful. We haven't had an interior pass rush since...Fred Robbins? It becomes much easier to scheme against a team who will be rushing four, and the only pressure will be coming from the outside.
I do like him quite a bit, but I want to emphasize that I love him as a 3rd down rusher, kind of like what Jay Alford was for us for a short period of time. Now keep in mind, prior to his ACL tearing, Alford needed a year or 2 to develop into an eventual 3 down player (he was poised to break out as one before tearing his ACL) so Donald may be the same type of player.

But even if his immediate contribution is that of a 3rd down rusher, I'm in favor of it.

I also feel that his shortcomings as a player are more masked on our team vs another team. So his relative value is higher for our team than a team who has no edge pressure.

We can maximize his ability bc we have JPP on the edge. And hopefully Moore (although I don't count him as part of this evaluation). Because of that Donald should be able to really hit those gaps on passing situations.

On 1st and 2nd down you can hit him with power and traps, so there will be an adjustment period for Donald to learn how to use his leverage to beat power and traps his way, but I think this is where Beason and Hank come into play as well, because when they run traps on Donald, those 2 can save the play.

Plus Donald just has to learn to get lower vs the trap and take that pulling Guard out at his Thighs and he'll be fine.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Oh, also. I forgot to mention this here...

UCONN MOTHER *******! SUCK IT!
Congrats!!!
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Oh, also. I forgot to mention this here...

UCONN MOTHER *******! SUCK IT!
I would be happy for you but then I remembered that Will Beatty is probably also happy right now and **** that guy.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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....... LT....LG....[].....RG....RT....Y
......................QB
......................FB
......................RB

BBD,

Against a standard I pro Right formation, you'd put Donald at a 3T right? Or would you not play him on 1st and 2nd down?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Meh! I think Beatty will bounce back this year. Like I've always said, dude is a really hard worker so I don't think it's about being lazy/unmotivated.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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....... LT....LG....[].....RG....RT....Y
......................QB
......................FB
......................RB

BBD,

Against a standard I pro Right formation, you'd put Donald at a 3T right? Or would you not play him on 1st and 2nd down?
In our current scheme? I don't play him. Because Fewell needs guys to stack on 1st and 2nd down. Now Fewell has stated in the past that he was willing to adjust his scheme on 1st and 2nd down for Austin if he ever panned out so if he does do that, then I play him at 3 tech on 1st and 2nd down, I'd play around with the idea of him at 1 tech. I like the idea of him blowing up the A gap and taking advantage of the Center having 1 arm for a split second.

So I guess it depends on what Fewell does or is willing to do. If he won't change the scheme then I keep him on the bench and go heavy with Hank and another NT type on 1st and 2nd down, probably Patterson and Hank, then bring Donald in on 3rd down if it's 3rd and 5 or more.

Or I'll bring Donald in on 1st or 2nd down if they go spread and I have my nickel D in there. But if they go 22 Im leaving him on the bench on 1st and 2nd down.

But again, if Fewell adjusts the scheme and Donald is a fast learner than I'm open to using him at 3T vs 22, and I'd tinker with the idea of 1T in PS and see if he can blow up the backfield when lined up there as well.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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In our current scheme? I don't play him. Because Fewell needs guys to stack on 1st and 2nd down. Now Fewell has stated in the past that he was willing to adjust his scheme on 1st and 2nd down for Austin if he ever panned out so if he does do that, then I play him at 3 tech on 1st and 2nd down, I'd play around with the idea of him at 1 tech. I like the idea of him blowing up the A gap and taking advantage of the Center having 1 arm for a split second.

So I guess it depends on what Fewell does or is willing to do. If he won't change the scheme then I keep him on the bench and go heavy with Hank and another NT type on 1st and 2nd down, probably Patterson and Hank, then bring Donald in on 3rd down if it's 3rd and 5 or more.

Or I'll bring Donald in on 1st or 2nd down if they go spread and I have my nickel D in there. But if they go 22 Im leaving him on the bench on 1st and 2nd down.

But again, if Fewell adjusts the scheme and Donald is a fast learner than I'm open to using him at 3T vs 22, and I'd tinker with the idea of 1T in PS and see if he can blow up the backfield when lined up there as well.


Well two things: One being I don't care about Fewell because ALL the coaches are basically on a 1 year deal. If the offense lays another egg that changes the landscrape of our team. Meaning, we could see a change in the coaching staff.

2: Eli is 33 now. He has 2 years left on his deal. So when 34 will be his contract year and 35 will be when he is a free agent, his contract is done. So if Eli and the whole offense stinks, the coaches get fired AND we may very well not extend ELi. So deal with his massive contract, wait until it expires, and the new coach gets his QB.

RR is an free agent next year. JJ and mario are FA this year, since they are basically on a 1 year deal.

The whole offense is a short and curly hair from having wholesale changes. Actually when you think about it, the WHOLE team from staff to franchise QB.

So brings me back to I won't worry about Fewell.


As of now, in Fewell's system it comes down to can he and will he adjust? That's a question only he can answer. I wouldn't draft Donald as a specialist. IF he is drafted then he better play often on running plays and on passing plays and do well.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Donald is a 3 down player in a different scheme. Just not in Fewell's current scheme. I'd imagine Fewell would adjust though. Afterall, he was willing to adjust for Austin so why not Donald?
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