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Old 04-14-2014, 03:56 PM    (permalink
fredder
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I don't think Clowney is most likely to be drafted by Houston. Remember, last time that a "once a generation, freak DE" came out was in 2006 when Mario Williams was picked by the Texans and he was unable to make the anticipated impacted. First it was Jevon Kearse, then Peppers, then Mario Williams and now Clowney - the zomgzzzz athleticzzzzz defensive ends. How many teams did these guys lead to super bowl victories? I am pretty sure Houston is well aware of the Williams pick and how it did not turn out as anticipated.

The fact that Houston has a pretty solid front seven already also makes me wonder why they would draft Clowney. They have the best DE in the game, their biggest hole in the front seven is at the nose tackle spot. They have Mercilus and Reed as their two OLB. It was not the front seven of that defense that was the primary issue. It was their horrid secondary and the decline of Schaub.
I'm not sure the Williams pick is a good example. Do you think they'd rather have drafted Vince Young, Matt Leinart, or Jay Cutler? I'm pretty sure they'd take Williams again in a re-draft. The same could be said for Julius Peppers. Do you think Carolina would've taken Joey Harrington or David Carr in a re-draft? If anything the Texans should use that draft as an example of how taking a QB over a rare prospect didn't work out.

If they think one of the QBs is a franchise guy then they take him. If not, you just take Clowney.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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But Bortles hand size is only 1/8 inch bigger than Teddy's (not even a full inch)! And like I mentioned previously, Teddy is still young and will have time to fill out his frame. He lost a lot of weight because of his jaw surgery.
It's hilarious that this point continues to be ignored and we just keep hearing "b-b-b-but he has SMALL HANDS!" But you bring up that Bortles, the "prototype", has hands just as small and it's met with deathly silence.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't really know enough about Bortles and Bridgewater to say anything but I get a Tannehill and Geno feeling.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by molenguinurtle View Post
It's hilarious that this point continues to be ignored and we just keep hearing "b-b-b-but he has SMALL HANDS!" But you bring up that Bortles, the "prototype", has hands just as small and it's met with deathly silence.
Bridgewater struggled with his deep ball at his Pro Day and it was blamed on his small hands, so it is continually brought up as a problem. Bortles didn't struggle at all at his Pro Day with his deep ball, and that is why it isn't mentioned.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Hand Size = Arm Strength ?

Wow you learn something every day
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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Bridgewater is now compared to Willie Beamen lol

The game is on fellas, I guess the Browns want him at 4
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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1. One was proven wrong (Morts report), one is just pure speculation on your part

2. If the Rams loved Clowney they would already be trying to capitalize on the hype surrounding Manziel and Bortles and talk them up through the roof

3. No cherry picking, just using common sense
Speculation using the same arguments brought up in this thread. If teams are giving out bad info then Rapoport`s report is not worth anything.

As for the Rams, how do you know they haven`t promoted the QBs? I've seen good reports for both those guys, and Mack and Sammy and Robinson. Surely they could be all from the Rams.

If you believe teams will spread misinformation about Teddy, then it's not a huge leap to believe they are doing it about other players to all media, not just Mort
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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At this point in the draft, smokescreens are a way of life in the NFL, GM's just aren't very truthful once the Combine and Pro Days are over, however that being said, there were questions about all three QB's prior to the Combine and Pro Days, everybody having studied their film realized these guys had warts and if they showed well at either the Combine or their Pro Days, a lot of the talk slowed down, but if they struggled at either, then it shouldn't come as a surprise that those warts will be brought up again and again.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Bridgewater struggled with his deep ball at his Pro Day and it was blamed on his small hands, so it is continually brought up as a problem. Bortles didn't struggle at all at his Pro Daywith his deep ball, and that is why it isn't mentioned.
But on the flip side, Bridgewater looks better on his deep ball than Bortles did during the regular season on tape. Now as a team, which one do you put more emphasis on. Bortles looks hot right now because of his offseason workouts, but at the end of the day, is that the determining factor in all of this? Or is it all smokescreens by GMs and teams?
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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But on the flip side, Bridgewater looks better on his deep ball than Bortles did during the regular season on tape. Now as a team, which one do you put more emphasis on. Bortles looks hot right now because of his offseason workouts, but at the end of the day, is that the determining factor in all of this? Or is it all smokescreens by GMs and teams?
That's why draft day will be so interesting, because, we just don't know where and in which order the QB's will be drafted. I can sort through all the information available and reach a conclusion based on what I have viewed and what I have heard, based on sources I trust, but draft day can still bring surprises even for me.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:07 AM    (permalink
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Hand size and arm strength don't go hand in hand.

Kaepernick probably has the strongest arm in the NFL and his hands are smaller than Teddy's, Vick's hands are under 9 inches.
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Old 04-16-2014, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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Hand size and arm strength don't go hand in hand.

Kaepernick probably has the strongest arm in the NFL and his hands are smaller than Teddy's, Vick's hands are under 9 inches.
Hand size is just a piece to the entire puzzle. Having small hands make it tougher to grip the football and really spin it in bad weather conditions. it is also a potential issue when it comes to pass rushers swatting at the ball.

Now, I think Bridgewater's anticipation can help a lot with the second issue but the first will really depend on where he goes in the draft. If it's Houston I don't see a major issue. He will play at least 8 games a year in favorable conditions. But if it's somewhere like Buffalo or New York for example it will get tough when it gets cold and wet
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Also, his hand size wouldn't even be brought up if he spun the ball like Kaep. He doesn't. It's not like people are bringing up hand size alone. It's how the ball comes out of his hands.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Also, his hand size wouldn't even be brought up if he spun the ball like Kaep. He doesn't. It's not like people are bringing up hand size alone. It's how the ball comes out of his hands.
That should tell you that maybe perhaps its not hand size.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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That should tell you that maybe perhaps its not hand size.
Not sure what this means.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Not sure what this means.
If qbs with smaller hand sizes are spinning the ball with more velocity than perhaps its not his hands size that you keep pestering everyone about.

Quite frankly it has more to do with the application (or lack there of) of his lower body into his throws more than anything else

He is an arm thrower
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I agree with that, but the hands are still part of the equation - there's a reason why teams care enough to measure them. And he's got thin wrists/arms and isn't really that strong overall. As I've said before, I like his ARM, because that's all he throws with. When/if he starts to use his lower body, he should be able to "gain" "arm" strength a la Andy Dalton. And he's got to be married to the weight room.

These small critiques on BW send his proponents in a tizzy, but they aren't just made up things, and there's a reason people bring them up. And they can add up. It's all part of the process.

And they could mean very little in the long run. Maybe the pro day was really just a bad day, maybe he fins the perfect pair of gloves, and maybe his legendary work ethic helps him improve his weaknesses. But I don't view these knocks as harmless to his prospects as the "nitpicking" knocks on Luck, Newton, etc. Luck's were just made up/embellished. That was a case of prospect fatigue. BW's are real and should be factored in. And I think that will be reflected on draft day when he doesn't go as high as most thought he would initially.

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Old 04-16-2014, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I agree with that, but the hands are still part of the equation - there's a reason why teams care enough to measure them. And he's got thin wrists/arms and isn't really that strong overall. As I've said before, I like his ARM, because that's all he throws with. When/if he starts to use his lower body, he should be able to "gain" "arm" strength a la Andy Dalton. And he's got to be married to the weight room.

These small critiques on BW send his proponents in a tizzy, but they aren't just made up things, and there's a reason people bring them up. And they can add up. It's all part of the process.

And they could mean very little in the long run. Maybe the pro day was really just a bad day, maybe he fins the perfect pair of gloves, and maybe his legendary work ethic helps him improve his weaknesses. But I don't view these knocks as harmless to his prospects as the "nitpicking" knocks on Luck, Newton, etc. Luck's were just made up/embellished. That was a case of prospect fatigue. BW's are real and should be factored in. And I think that will be reflected on draft day when he doesn't go as high as most thought he would initially.
Frame is nit picking

The only legitimate argument is the deep ball accuracy. Luck was nit picked for the same thing. Matt Ryan was nitpicked for the same thing. Drew Brees was nitpicked for the same thing.

How did that turn out?
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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He is hands down the best QB prospect in this Draft. That said, he shouldn't be picked in the Top 20.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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He is hands down the best QB prospect in this Draft. That said, he shouldn't be picked in the Top 20.
If he's hands down the best QB prospect, which I believe he is the best in this class, why is he not worth a Top 20 selection given the importance of the QB position?
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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If he's hands down the best QB prospect, which I believe he is the best in this class, why is he not worth a Top 20 selection given the importance of the QB position?
Agreed. If you view a qb as "hands down" down the best QB prospect if the class, you need to take a strong look at him if you are top 5 team in need of a qb.

I agree that Bridgewater is hands down the best qb in the class, and it isn't even close
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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If he's hands down the best QB prospect, which I believe he is the best in this class, why is he not worth a Top 20 selection given the importance of the QB position?
Because of the actual importance of the QB position. There isn't a QB in this draft (nor the 2013 Draft) that had the capability to turn a bad team (you know the ones typically drafting in the Top 15) into a good team. Just because you're the best of a marginal crop, doesn't mean you're good enough to select over actual difference makers at other positions.
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Old 04-16-2014, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MassNole View Post
Because of the actual importance of the QB position. There isn't a QB in this draft (nor the 2013 Draft) that had the capability to turn a bad team (you know the ones typically drafting in the Top 15) into a good team. Just because you're the best of a marginal crop, doesn't mean you're good enough to select over actual difference makers at other positions.
Bridgewater is easily the best qb in the last two draft classes...

Just because the crop is marginal doesn't mean the top qb isn't.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by worldtheofend View Post
Bridgewater is easily the best qb in the last two draft classes...

Just because the crop is marginal doesn't mean the top qb isn't.
I am not sure because of his size (which is a major concern) that he'd have gone before Manuel if available last year. And no, just because the crop is marginal doesn't mean the top prospect is, like say DE's in this class. But that doesn't change the fact there is no franchise changing QB in this draft.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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TB on a team like Houston or Minnesota would put those squads in the playoffs as a rookie IMO.
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