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Old 05-19-2014, 08:07 PM    (permalink
nepg
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Originally Posted by CJSchneider View Post
And thus starts the hamster-wheel...

Understand, I'm playing the devil's advocate here for the sake of intelligent discussion mind you, but why "come out".

If your desire is to be treated for who you are as opposed to what you may be labeled as, what then is "coming out"?
He came out because he would have been outed fairly soon after he decided to make it public.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Congrats on making a thread for a documentary that they have already suspended.

I get the need to control the story but its in everyone's interest to just let him work hard and try to make the team for now.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bert Macklin View Post
He's taking advantage of situation/attention and cashing in. I'd do it, all of you would too.
I agree. The guy is a 7th round pick not the highest success rate in the NFL. So if he can line his pockets by working with oprah I don't see any issue with it (I know it has been scrapped) ESPN got so butt hurt the company line was strong with this story. I think people are more mad that it is on OWN as opposed to a major NFL partner and that is what is getting so many panties in a bunch.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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inb4 the lock
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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inb4 the lock
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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i'll ban people before i bother with locking the thread. don't be ******* douchebags.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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oh snap he just swung his big ole stick in this thread>??>!
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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I agree. The guy is a 7th round pick not the highest success rate in the NFL. So if he can line his pockets by working with oprah I don't see any issue with it (I know it has been scrapped)
In a vacuum, I don't disagree with you.

But after his whole "I don't want to talk about Michael Sam the gay football player, I want to talk about Michael Sam the football player", anything he does to encourage talk about Michael Sam the gay football player just cranks up his douche factor.

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Old 05-20-2014, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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I will reserve that title of pioneer for someone who actually has a shot at making an impact. Not some lowly 7th round pick that probably won't make the roster.

His show also didn sit too well with me. The timing was terrible and it shaded him as a bit of a hypocrite. So much for...I want to be Michael Sam the football player that happens to be gay and not Michael Sam the gay football player. I really agreed with the Whitlock article.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:16 AM    (permalink
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In a vacuum, I don't disagree with you.

But after his whole "I don't want to talk about Michael Sam the gay football player, I want to talk about Michael Sam the football player", anything he does to encourage talk about Michael Sam the gay football player just cranks up his douche factor.
After being picked in the 7th round it's unlikely that he's ever going to be known as a football player. He's choosing between money/attention before both quickly go away, or less money/attention before it all goes away. You expect him to choose the second one, just because he made some cliche sentence in the interview where he came out? And he's a douche because of it?

Again, I think people's issue is with him being gay and not him accepting attention.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:27 AM    (permalink
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This has already been postponed and likely won't be happening. People are severely underrating Michael Sam, he has a heck of a chance to make the Rams and it's not because Coach Fisher feels he needs to keep him or be crucified.

Great at getting after the Quarterback and probably should of been taken somewhere in the late 4th to late 5th round.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:42 AM    (permalink
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After being picked in the 7th round it's unlikely that he's ever going to be known as a football player. He's choosing between money/attention before both quickly go away, or less money/attention before it all goes away. You expect him to choose the second one, just because he made some cliche sentence in the interview where he came out? And he's a douche because of it?

Again, I think people's issue is with him being gay and not him accepting attention.
I think this will all depend on how he is built. If he wants to be an NFL player enough he will do everything in his power to make it happen. I do agree that being a 7th rounder makes it unlikely he will ever do anything, but not impossible. However, if at this point he just wants to make a name for himself then putting himself out there is the best way to do it.

The best thing any guy drafted late can do is become invisible to the public and live in the film room. There are enough guys who were late round picks and UDFAs who have made it to see a blueprint of some sort. Yes, there are going to be distractions which he can't control but by welcoming them and adding to them will only make it harder for him.

With out trying to get into the politics side of this whole thing, if Sam craves media attention and wants to make as much as he can in his perceived small window then it will do the LGBT community cause so much harm. The main things people who don't agree with it state are - the teammates won't accept them and that person will become a distraction.

Firstly, I don't buy the first one. Yes some guys may not be overly keen on it, but as was shown at Mizzou teammates can rally behind these guys. And at the end of the day if you help a team win you will be accepted.

For the second one this is the main concern. Unless a transcendent star comes out as gay it will be tough for teams to get over the stigma of all the attention that someone who is gay would bring. It is all about weighing the overall risk and reward. Unless this guy can clearly make your team better then why would you bother with the hassle? I have no issue with anything Sam has done to this point with the exception of the proposed documentary series. However, that would almost certainly guarantee him not being on the roster if it went through.

Now, if he makes the team and gets playing time as a rookie and really shows his athletic limitations aren't an issue and he can still produce then I am all for him doing something next offseason, but how about he makes the team first
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:14 AM    (permalink
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I think this will all depend on how he is built. If he wants to be an NFL player enough he will do everything in his power to make it happen. I do agree that being a 7th rounder makes it unlikely he will ever do anything, but not impossible. However, if at this point he just wants to make a name for himself then putting himself out there is the best way to do it.

The best thing any guy drafted late can do is become invisible to the public and live in the film room. There are enough guys who were late round picks and UDFAs who have made it to see a blueprint of some sort. Yes, there are going to be distractions which he can't control but by welcoming them and adding to them will only make it harder for him.

With out trying to get into the politics side of this whole thing, if Sam craves media attention and wants to make as much as he can in his perceived small window then it will do the LGBT community cause so much harm. The main things people who don't agree with it state are - the teammates won't accept them and that person will become a distraction.

Firstly, I don't buy the first one. Yes some guys may not be overly keen on it, but as was shown at Mizzou teammates can rally behind these guys. And at the end of the day if you help a team win you will be accepted.

For the second one this is the main concern. Unless a transcendent star comes out as gay it will be tough for teams to get over the stigma of all the attention that someone who is gay would bring. It is all about weighing the overall risk and reward. Unless this guy can clearly make your team better then why would you bother with the hassle? I have no issue with anything Sam has done to this point with the exception of the proposed documentary series. However, that would almost certainly guarantee him not being on the roster if it went through.

Now, if he makes the team and gets playing time as a rookie and really shows his athletic limitations aren't an issue and he can still produce then I am all for him doing something next offseason, but how about he makes the team first
I'm sure people will care less about the first gay NFL player to get drafted and then cut in the same year. Obviously he could make the team, but I don't get why people expect him to decline money and attention based on the fact that it's "not impossible". None of us would do the same in his situation. Holding the minority to a higher standard is straight from the book of internalized discrimination
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Again, I think people's issue is with him being gay and not him accepting attention.
This is what you, personally, need to define.

You come off as someone who is ready to lash out at anyone who has a problem with his sexuality. Don't be that guy. This world already has too many people using the word "****-phobe" incorrectly. If people want to dislike him because of his sexuality, that is their problem. I highly doubt posts here are the way to change certain people's view, but that part is just my opinion.

Secondly, and most prominently, the entire issue IS the fact that he is gay. Would there have been a camera there or would we be discussing him now if he had not "come out"? No, and don't lie and say any different. If Sam doesn't come out does he still get drafted? Probably. Does he get drafted at a different spot? Possibly. Does his jersey become the second highest selling jersey if he stays in the "closet"? NOPE.

Now, here is what you are entitled to be opinionated, here at this forum at least, about. Do you begrudge him for wanting to make a buck? I certainly don't. But what I will make my decision off of is "What kind of person is Micheal Sam?"

If we are going to compare him to Jackie Robinson, let's make it a fair one. JR wasn't the best baseball player that could have been selected to break the "color barrier". JR was selected because of what he had done before MLB. He was a 4 star athlete at UCLA where he graduated from. He had earned a commission as a US Army Cavalry officer. He may not have been the best athlete, but he was the best PERSON.

Now, there is no indication that Sam doesn't fit that same mold. You could even make a pretty good argument that he does. What I am waiting for is the story he is going to tell and what he does for others behind him. IF he makes a quick buck, wrongly bad mouths the leauge should he not make a final roster, and does the "victim" thing, how much will he have helped any other person behind him?
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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If he didn't want attention he would've came out his freshman year at Mizzu, but noooo he waits till he is going to enter the NFL spotlight.
This is one of the worst posts I have seen in my time on this forum. Congratulations.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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If he didn't want attention he would've came out his freshman year at Mizzu, but noooo he waits till he is going to enter the NFL spotlight.
It also highlights the real problem, imo. No one should have to be fearful of hazing or ridicule due to their sexuality. He should not have to "come out". It shouldn't be a factor at all.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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This is what you, personally, need to define.
By that I mean when people are saying "he just wants attention" and anything like that, the negative/annoyed feelings towards Michael Sam are clearly influenced by the fact that he's gay. If he was getting attention for any other reason it would be less of a problem. If someone has an issue with gay people (either conscious or subconscious) it's going to annoy them when Sam is getting attention solely for being gay.

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Secondly, and most prominently, the entire issue IS the fact that he is gay. Would there have been a camera there or would we be discussing him now if he had not "come out"? No, and don't lie and say any different. If Sam doesn't come out does he still get drafted? Probably. Does he get drafted at a different spot? Possibly. Does his jersey become the second highest selling jersey if he stays in the "closet"? NOPE.
This is kind of what i'm talking about. Obviously if he hadn't came out there wouldn't be cameras at his house, he wouldn't have documentaries being made about him and his jersey wouldn't be the second highest seller. But none of that annoys me. I think it's a great thing, because it's a massive positive step forward. And I don't understand why anyone that has absolutely no problem with gay people would be irritated by it. You could say "he's meant to be a football player" etc, but I still don't see why anyone would have a problem with Sam choosing whatever path he chooses. It just strikes me as petulance and looking for a reason to be annoyed.

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Now, there is no indication that Sam doesn't fit that same mold. You could even make a pretty good argument that he does. What I am waiting for is the story he is going to tell and what he does for others behind him. IF he makes a quick buck, wrongly bad mouths the leauge should he not make a final roster, and does the "victim" thing, how much will he have helped any other person behind him?
Why does he need to be the guy that leads the way for other gay players? This is what I mean about being held to a higher standard. Maybe Sam isn't the most perfect human being on the earth? It would just make him like everyone else on the planet. I don't get why we need to wait and see if he makes a mistake or not. If he makes a quick buck, bad mouths the NFL and plays the victim card, he might not have helped any other person behind him. But that's not his job.
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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It also highlights the real problem, imo. No one should have to be fearful of hazing or ridicule due to their sexuality. He should not have to "come out". It shouldn't be a factor at all.
That goes without saying, but yet here we are, with only two still active professional athletes that have come out as gay.
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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We shouldnt need to even have this discussion. Someone was going to come out and break that barrier eventually and it was going to lead to a huge ripple effect stemming from that first person. If it wasn't michael sam, it'd be someone else. So no, I don't think he was being an attention *****. However someone was going to make history by doing it and for the better start forcing people to get over whatever preconceived notions of bigotry they held against these players- especially within the NFL. Sam only needed to come out because in doing so he becomes the catalyst for future gay players and systems of equality. Good for him for stepping up.
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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He needed to come out because he was going to be outed, anyway. He only came out to protect himself and take control of the story. It's really odd to me that so few people understand that fact.

The reality show was just a further effort to control the story. They, rightly, decided that now wasn't the time for that type of distraction. Doing those shows can take a lot out of you. His agent and the team helped him make the best decision.
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Old 05-21-2014, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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He needed to come out because he was going to be outed, anyway.
You don't know that. Besides the fact that players have come out after they have retired or made it into the leauge proves that your sexuality is not cause to be "black-balled" from the leauge, and that you don't have to make an announcement about your sexuality.

What I speculate, and if I am right, I commend Sam for due to the deeper implications, is that Sam chose to come out because he was in a committed relationship at the time of the draft. I'm guessing he made that choice because he was not about to make his partner be someone he had to hide or be ashamed of.

Think about it, if he had already told his teammates, then he had already "come out". He did this, I believe, as an act of solidarity with his current boyfriend.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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He already came out to his team but it would have gotten national attention as we got closer to the draft. He wasn't hiding it in college so It's reasonable to think it would have developed into a story before the draft.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Count me as a Rams fan that's getting annoyed with all this Michael Sam attention.

He's continuously saying about how it's about Football. yet he's constantly doing stuff like this. It's getting really god dang annoying.

Go out, ball out.. earn your spot on the team and then think about something like this. Until then, you're nothing but a 7th RD draft pick who doesn't have a spot on the team as of now, who lacks a lot of athleticisms that are needed in the NFL.
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Doing stuff like what, lol. Heavens forbid any athlete take a role in a television show, or even consider it (which is all it is at this point since the show is on hold). Besides that, what else is he always doing, talking about being gay? Ok....sooooo what?
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Count me as a Rams fan that's getting annoyed with all this Michael Sam attention.
Just popped in here as I was amazed at a thread with his name has generated this much activity.

Says a lot about America IMO that this particular scrub, 7th round pick, garners more attention/media $ than many 1st rounders.
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