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Old 05-07-2007, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Ok. Also, even when Bulger had 22 interceptions in 2003, he had a 81.4 rating, much better than that 77 rating of Manning.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
And Eli is a top 10 QB imo. people asked me to post my opinions, so i did so.
I think he is barely Top-15.. people in this board seem too hate him too much.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeFan View Post
Ok. Also, even when Bulger had 22 interceptions in 2003, he had a 81.4 rating, much better than that 77 rating of Manning.
The rating is a horrible way to measure QBs.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
thats why he's 4th in TD passes...

Its not even stats. its the intangibles more then anything. Give me a list of the top 15 or so QBs and see how many are legitimately better then Eli....
How many INT'S did he have last season ? (Hawkeye Fan beat me to it)

Eli is not a top 10 QB in the NFL right now that's it
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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The rating is a horrible way to measure QBs.
"Horrible"? How? It combines relevant stats into an easy, comparable number. Is that why it's horrible?
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
thats why he's 4th in TD passes...

Its not even stats. its the intangibles more then anything. Give me a list of the top 15 or so QBs and see how many are legitimately better then Eli....
Intangibles are the worst part of Eli's game. He shows no leadership, he has no pocket presence, he's a *****, and he generally locks up in the clutch. His stats actually make him look better than he really is. As for your list.

People definately better:
1)Peyton
2)Brady
3)Palmer
4)Brees
5)Bulger
6)McNabb
7)Big Ben
8)Cutler
9)Hasselbeck
10)Vick
11)Pennington
12)Philip Rivers

People probably better:
13)Tony Romo
14)J.P Losman
15)Vince Young

People at about Eli's level:
16)Damon Huard
17)Steve McNair
18)Brett Favre
19)Rex Grossman
20)Alex Smith
21)Byron Leftwich
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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I think he is. He's more of a game changer then most of the QB's you guys mentioned. I watch him week in, week out. and I am telling you that theres something about the guy. I see the guy come through and put us in a position to win games a hell of a lot....

Im done with this topic and dont need to be baited into continuing this topic. I said my piece, and thats it. agree/disagree i dont really care.....
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Unseen View Post
"Horrible"? How? It combines relevant stats into an easy, comparable number. Is that why it's horrible?
Any statistical formula is horrible, when used as the sole evaluating factor. Unless you think David Carr was a better QB last year than Tom Brady was. Even the NFL when they set up the system, stated this:

Quote:
It is important to remember that the system is used to rate pass-ers, not quarterbacks. Statistics do not reflect leadership, play-calling, and other intangible factors that go into making a successful professional quarterback.
NFL.com

So they never intended the Passer Rating as the primary way to quantify the Quarterback position.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Wheres the Eli Manning Forum?
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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This thread has nothing to do with Eli Manning. If you want to rant, go elsewhere. (hint; you know, maybe the Eli Manning thread?)
This thread really has no point either way.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
I think he is. He's more of a game changer then most of the QB's you guys mentioned. I watch him week in, week out. and I am telling you that theres something about the guy. I see the guy come through and put us in a position to win games a hell of a lot....

Im done with this topic and dont need to be baited into continuing this topic. I said my piece, and thats it. agree/disagree i dont really care.....
The something about him is the fact that you're a Giants fan.

And yes, he's a game changer, he helps the Giants lose games.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Intangibles are the worst part of Eli's game. He shows no leadership, he has no pocket presence, he's a *****, and he generally locks up in the clutch. His stats actually make him look better than he really is. As for your list.

People definately better:
1)Peyton
2)Brady
3)Palmer
4)Brees
5)Bulger
6)McNabb
7)Big Ben
8)Cutler
9)Hasselbeck
10)Vick
11)Pennington
12)Philip Rivers

People probably better:
13)Tony Romo
14)J.P Losman
15)Vince Young

People at about Eli's level:
16)Damon Huard
17)Steve McNair
18)Brett Favre
19)Rex Grossman
20)Alex Smith
21)Byron Leftwich
the difference in my list and yours being that your apparently ready and willing to crown peoples asses after 1 good season....

and thats it. Eli's demeanor is one of a calm, cool and collected individual. Its his personality. There are enough vocal guys on this team, and Eli is the guy who calms everyone down and leads IN THE HUDDLE NOT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA.


and i cant even believe that you said Eli locks up in the clutch... you obviously dont watch much Giants cause that is far and away his strong point. And it has something to do with the calm demeanor that you are bashing him for.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Any statistical formula is horrible, when used as the sole evaluating factor. Unless you think David Carr was a better QB last year than Tom Brady was. Even the NFL when they set up the system, stated this:



NFL.com

So they never intended the Passer Rating as the primary way to quantify the Quarterback position.
In that case, I guess I would just like Xonraider to clarify his comment. I don't think it should be the sole evaluating factor. My question then is if that's what Xonraider meant.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan View Post
the difference in my list and yours being that your apparently ready and willing to crown peoples asses after 1 good season....

and thats it. Eli's demeanor is one of a calm, cool and collected individual. Its his personality. There are enough vocal guys on this team, and Eli is the guy who calms everyone down and leads IN THE HUDDLE NOT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA.


and i cant even believe that you said Eli locks up in the clutch... you obviously dont watch much Giants cause that is far and away his strong point. And it has something to do with the calm demeanor that you are bashing him for.
Yes, I would take a player with one good season over a player that has yet to have a good season. Color me crazy.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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10 Reasons Marc Bulger is Underrated
1) He wasn't drafted early so didn't get a lot of spotlight (6th round)
2) Hasn't won a Super Bowl (Peyton Manning & Big Ben)
3) Hasn't won 3 Super Bowls (Tom Brady and the circus)
4) Hasn't really won in the playoffs
5) Hasn't fumbled a snap and costed the team the playoffs (Tony Romo)
6) Didn't lead a team who was 3-13 the year before to NFC Championship game (Drew Brees)
7) Doesn't do anything special. (No cannon arm or Chevrolegs)
8) Came in for Kurt Warner who was a total stud. Wasn't anything more special. It went from a 10 to an 8. People might have seen it as a downgrade even though he is still really good.
9) Hasn't established himself by playing for a gazillion years (Brett Favre)
10) He plays in the NFC.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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the difference in my list and yours being that your apparently ready and willing to crown peoples asses after 1 good season....
And you're ready and willing to crown Eli Manning's after 0 good seasons.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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My personal rankings:

Tier 1 Players that can perform on a MVP level
  • Peyton Manning
  • Tom Brady
  • Carson Palmer
  • Drew Brees

Tier 2 Players that are very good, and they help their team's play at a higher level
  • Marc Bulger
  • Donovan McNabb
  • Matt Hasselbeck

Tier 3 Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more often than not they are productive
  • Tony Romo
  • Philip Rivers
  • Michael Vick
  • Chad Pennington
  • Ben Roethlisberger

Tier 4 They have the potential to advance, but aren't there yet
  • Eli Manning
  • JP Losman
  • Vince Young
  • Alex Smith
  • Byron Leftwich
  • Rex Grossman
  • Jay Cutler

Last edited by Shiver : 05-07-2007 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Okay, the person who said that Bulger isn't underrated because he is not matching what Warner did with the Rams is a fool. Yes, how dare Bulger not be able to duplicate the greatest three year stretch for a QB ever sans Manning 2003-present. Oh, and before you comment back with something questioning my statement about Warner's three year stretch, do some research and look at the stats.

As for Eli being a top 10 QB, that is assanine. How can a guy that was outplayed by Jon Kitna be a top 10 QB. Eli had a 77.0 QB rating, good for 18th in the league last year. How bout the year before last? A rating of 75.9, 23rd in the league, behind Plummer, Brad Johnson, Brunell, Warner (yes the very one he replaced even though the Giants were 4-3 at the time and winning the division), Holcomb, Bledsoe, Simms, Collins, and Dilfer. Yes, Eli is truly amazing.

Manning/Brady
Palmer
Bulger
Brees
McNabb
Then I think there is a significant drop-off to the next group that contains the Hasselbecks, Romos, Rivers, and Losmans of the world, and Manning is towards the bottom of this tier.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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I think Vince Young should be in the Tier 3 because he is the definition of "Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more than otherwise they are productive"
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by kalbears13 View Post
I think Vince Young should be in the Tier 3 because he is the definition of "Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more than otherwise they are productive"
I think you're taking Shiver's line a bit too strictly. He thinks that Vince Young is a fourth tier QB.

Am I correct?
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Bruce Gradkowski is the best QB in the league. I just can't put my fingertips on why it's so, but it just is what it is. He's the best in the game, there's just something about the guy. He's so calm and cool on the field, his demeanor says it all. I just watch him week in/week out and think "wow, he's unstoppable". The only reason Brucey isn't well-liked is because of that calm demeanor. Everyone just hates calm people. Did I mention he has very dark, tan skin? I know I shouldn't crown his ass after one good season, but he is just special, you wouldn't understand.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Okay, the person who said that Bulger isn't underrated because he is not matching what Warner did with the Rams is a fool. Yes, how dare Bulger not be able to duplicate the greatest three year stretch for a QB ever sans Manning 2003-present. Oh, and before you comment back with something questioning my statement about Warner's three year stretch, do some research and look at the stats.
I never said he wasn't underated, but that has certainly held him back, and to act like it hasn't is what is foolish.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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My personal rankings:

Tier 1 Players that can perform on a MVP level
  • Peyton Manning
  • Tom Brady
  • Carson Palmer
  • Drew Brees

Tier 2 Players that are very good, and they help their team's play at a higher level
  • Marc Bulger
  • Donovan McNabb
  • Matt Hasselbeck

Tier 3 Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more often than not they are productive
  • Tony Romo
  • Philip Rivers
  • Michael Vick
  • Chad Pennington
  • Ben Roethlisberger

Tier 4 They have the potential to advance, but aren't there yet
  • Eli Manning
  • JP Losman
  • Vince Young
  • Alex Smith
  • Byron Leftwich
  • Rex Grossman
  • Jay Cutler
Thats a fair assessment I suppose.... But does anyone actually think that any of the guys you listed with Eli are better then him (minus rookies who are kind of an unknown)? I have him a "tier" up from you and its apparently a huge deal to this board....
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Im done with this topic and dont need to be baited into continuing this topic. I said my piece, and thats it. agree/disagree i dont really care.....
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:52 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Thats a fair assessment I suppose.... But does anyone actually think that any of the guys you listed with Eli are better then him (minus rookies who are kind of an unknown)? I have him a "tier" up from you and its apparently a huge deal to this board....
Yes, pretty much everyone.
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