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Old 07-25-2006, 06:05 PM    (permalink
Staubach12
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Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth.
Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D
no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.
I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.
vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions
Before you say the dome inflated his stats, look at the stats. It has no effect. In his career, he is 87.6 percent indoors and 87.4% outdoors.
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Old 07-25-2006, 06:14 PM    (permalink
 
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Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
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Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth.
Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D
no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.
I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.
vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions
Before you say the dome inflated his stats, look at the stats. It has no effect. In his career, he is 87.6 percent indoors and 87.4% outdoors.
thats not what i was saying. i was saying that Vinatieri's stats will go up b/c of playing in a dome
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Old 07-25-2006, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Vinetieri is better, but why does everyone hate Vanderjagt? worth.
Because this is the NFLDC board, and Vanderjagt is a Dallas Cowboy....pretty obvious that this poll is an excuse to hammer the Cowboy. :D
no not really. theres no doubt Vanderjagt is a great kicker but its completely idiotic to say hes better than Vinatieri. If he was still a colt, the results would be the same.
I dont see how you can say it is idiotic, if you take the "clutch" aspect out of the equation, Vandy is the better kicker. Vandejagt is more accurate from every distance on the field and his KO average is only 2 yards less than Vinatieri.
vanderjagt played at least half his games in a dome and Vinatieri played in New England. Vinatieri will have for sure the best numbers in the NFL b/c of the huge improvement of conditions
Before you say the dome inflated his stats, look at the stats. It has no effect. In his career, he is 87.6 percent indoors and 87.4% outdoors.
thats not what i was saying. i was saying that Vinatieri's stats will go up b/c of playing in a dome
Oh, I thought you said Vanderjagts will go down. Sorry, my mistake. I agree, though.Vinetieri will do very well in the dome.
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Old 07-25-2006, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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...atlhough, it takes adjusting to kick in a dome. In the end it's easier, but if you are in a stadium that consistently gets wind (does the Razor?), you might over or under-compensate on your kicks in certain directions.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?
the one in no wind on turf from 48? fricking wow.

or maybe you meant the one in perfect weather from 41?

or the most recent one from a whopping 22?

boy. those just scream incredible kicker :roll:

or they would if i didn't actually watch football ever.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Vinatieri, he kicks outside. It's not that hard to be good, when you kick inside most of your career.
and yet the little kids on this board still think vinatieri's kick in st. louis was "incredible" or "clutch" somehow.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
Thread was created by a Colt fan. For quite awhile there, Vanderjagt was considered the top kicker. Vinatieri's heroics on the global stage vaulted him to potential HOF status. I'd rather have him too......but I'll take Neil Rackers over both. Did you guys see on NFL network when Rackers kicked 4 balls in a row, first 2 hit the left upright, the last 2 hit the right upright. Looked to be from about 50 yards. My jaw dropped.

1. Rackers
2. Vinatieri
3. Vanderjagt
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:23 AM    (permalink
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The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:
The season he did that, he only had one kick of 50+ yards, and 17 from 20-29. Most of his kicks were easy chip shots. Anyway regardless of who's better I would want Vinatieri on my team because when it counts he doesn't miss, and he isn't as irritating as Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt is the only kicker diva, he doesn't seem to understand that no one idolizes kickers like they do receivers.

Also the transition might be difficult for Vinatieri if the holder can't adjust to his style, because his old holder used to hold his kicks with a bit of lean forward.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:26 AM    (permalink
 
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The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
Thread was created by a Colt fan. For quite awhile there, Vanderjagt was considered the top kicker. Vinatieri's heroics on the global stage vaulted him to potential HOF status. I'd rather have him too......but I'll take Neil Rackers over both. Did you guys see on NFL network when Rackers kicked 4 balls in a row, first 2 hit the left upright, the last 2 hit the right upright. Looked to be from about 50 yards. My jaw dropped.

1. Rackers
2. Vinatieri
3. Vanderjagt
Ive seen b4 cardinals games racker will kick 40 yarders from out of bounds.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diehardvikingsfan
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:
The season he did that, he only had one kick of 50+ yards, and 17 from 20-29. Most of his kicks were easy chip shots. Anyway regardless of who's better I would want Vinatieri on my team because when it counts he doesn't miss, and he isn't as irritating as Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt is the only kicker diva, he doesn't seem to understand that no one idolizes kickers like they do receivers.

Also the transition might be difficult for Vinatieri if the holder can't adjust to his style, because his old holder used to hold his kicks with a bit of lean forward.
every kicker does that.

and yeah, vinatieri was fricking unreal in 2003 when he missed four from 30-39, and 3 from 40-49. what a bloody all-world kicker :roll:
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diehardvikingsfan
The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
yeah, i mean, the most accurate regular season kicker ever... can't imagine why HE'D be in the thread. :roll:
The season he did that, he only had one kick of 50+ yards, and 17 from 20-29. Most of his kicks were easy chip shots. Anyway regardless of who's better I would want Vinatieri on my team because when it counts he doesn't miss, and he isn't as irritating as Vanderjagt. Vanderjagt is the only kicker diva, he doesn't seem to understand that no one idolizes kickers like they do receivers.

Also the transition might be difficult for Vinatieri if the holder can't adjust to his style, because his old holder used to hold his kicks with a bit of lean forward.
every kicker does that.

and yeah, vinatieri was fricking unreal in 2003 when he missed four from 30-39, and 3 from 40-49. what a bloody all-world kicker :roll:
No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.
thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.
thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.
I'm not talking about in terms of the holder ok heres a diagram say this is the kicker l /- and this is the ball he likes it to lean forward, so in terms of the holder he holds it to his right if he's right handed. So take it easy and stop freaking out about how holders hold it because I know that the way his holder holds it is not the normal way.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?
the one in no wind on turf from 48? fricking wow.

or maybe you meant the one in perfect weather from 41?

or the most recent one from a whopping 22?

boy. those just scream incredible kicker :roll:

or they would if i didn't actually watch football ever.
Dude, those kicks were game winners. Did u happen to remember the time left on the clock? He is considered "clutch" because he made those kicks under tremendous pressure. A superbowl winning kick is a lot harder to make than a regular season kick. Duh!
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Old 07-26-2006, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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How? Why? Have you kicked any game-winning field goals? Have you kicked any field goals at all? Where are you getting this assumption from? Madden '06?
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.
thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.
I'm not talking about in terms of the holder ok heres a diagram say this is the kicker l /- and this is the ball he likes it to lean forward, so in terms of the holder he holds it to his right if he's right handed. So take it easy and stop freaking out about how holders hold it because I know that the way his holder holds it is not the normal way.
blahblahi'mwrongblahblah. no really, you're totally right. i mean, having actually been a holder for several teams including one at the college level, i've probably never seen an actual kicker in an actual game. your opinion is clearly so much better than mine considering you haven't pointed out a single kicker who DOESN'T lean it forward.



you can clearly see that the ball is angled slightly forward and slightly towards the holder.



again, clearly angled slightly forward.



huh, weird. another one angled slightly forward and towards the holder.



now that that's out of the way, go sit in a corner and don't post until you can verify that you in fact do have some vague degree of football knowledge. you've not posted a single thing in this or any other thread that i would've considered insightful or even "correct". you might try working on that, for starters.
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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additionally, i would take vanderjagt in a second during the regular season. i find it funny that people think vinatieri is so clutch... i mean, the kick against oakland was amazing, but what other difficult "clutch" kicks has he really made?
Do you watch the Superbowl or what?
the one in no wind on turf from 48? fricking wow.

or maybe you meant the one in perfect weather from 41?

or the most recent one from a whopping 22?

boy. those just scream incredible kicker :roll:

or they would if i didn't actually watch football ever.
Dude, those kicks were game winners. Did u happen to remember the time left on the clock? He is considered "clutch" because he made those kicks under tremendous pressure. A superbowl winning kick is a lot harder to make than a regular season kick. Duh!
:roll:

no really, GREAT justification. no wind in a dome. period. boy, what a tough kick that saved the patriots from the brink of... overtime. yeah, boy, that was some scott norwood stuff right there.

NONE of vinatieri's kicks were win/lose situations.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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can't believe this is a debate. its gotta be vinatieri. i like how the vanderjacht supporters are trying to take the 'clutch' aspect out of the equation. that is a big part of being a kicker.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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No, they don't most holders lean the ball towards the kicker, Vinatieri likes the ball to lean away from him, and thats what I'm talking about. Sorry if I were a bit unclear. But there's no denying that Vanderjagt is a jerk though and isn't the team player Vinatieri is.
thanks for playing, but that's just incorrect.

most kickers lean the ball towards them. feel free to watch a few and come back with concrete examples if you, for whatever bizarre reason, think i'm actually wrong.
I'm not talking about in terms of the holder ok heres a diagram say this is the kicker l /- and this is the ball he likes it to lean forward, so in terms of the holder he holds it to his right if he's right handed. So take it easy and stop freaking out about how holders hold it because I know that the way his holder holds it is not the normal way.
blahblahi'mwrongblahblah. no really, you're totally right. i mean, having actually been a holder for several teams including one at the college level, i've probably never seen an actual kicker in an actual game. your opinion is clearly so much better than mine considering you haven't pointed out a single kicker who DOESN'T lean it forward.



you can clearly see that the ball is angled slightly forward and slightly towards the holder.



again, clearly angled slightly forward.



huh, weird. another one angled slightly forward and towards the holder.



now that that's out of the way, go sit in a corner and don't post until you can verify that you in fact do have some vague degree of football knowledge. you've not posted a single thing in this or any other thread that i would've considered insightful or even "correct". you might try working on that, for starters.
Well, there was a special on tv, don't remember the shows name, but they were showing special teamers, and for 10 minutes it was about Vinatieri and Hunter Smith. It was all about how Vinatieri likes to kick with an unusual amount of lean on his kicks, which he discovered experimenting around with Hunter Smith. Jesus I'm tired of arguing with you about something as trivial as the amount of lean that he likes to kick with. Please enlighten me as to what I've posted that is incorrect because I would love to hear it.

If you have enough time to read through all my posts, then you really need to get a life. :roll:
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:05 PM    (permalink
tylaw24
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How? Why? Have you kicked any game-winning field goals? Have you kicked any field goals at all? Where are you getting this assumption from? Madden '06?
Its the fkin superbowl! only ONE team wins it every year. ffs! what dont u get about my argument? does anyone else find what these people are saying to be irritating?
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the 08 Raiders will be without a doubt the best SB team ever.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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The only reason Vanderjagt is in this thread, is because of Cowboy homers. It's not even close IMO, because I want a guy I can count on in the clutch.
The only reason he's in the thread is because nathan put him there. The only people voting for him are homer cowboys fans, yes.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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You guys are all missing the key question...

Who cares? They're kickers.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:44 PM    (permalink
 
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I can't believe Mike got 21 votes.
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