Revist 2004 QB draft. - Page 3

M.O.T.H. · 08-22-2006, 05:25 PM

I think when it's all said and done, Rivers will be known as the most accurate and the best passer of them all.

For the record, I like Big Ben a lot. If I was starting a franchise and I had to pick between Ben and Eli, Big Ben would be my man.

Shiver · 08-22-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

The thing I don't get is why do people refuse to believe in what Ben does. His rookie year he was written off as a 'fluke' and said to have a 'Sophmore slump'. Since that didn't happen people say his sucess is only because of his strong supporting cast.

Ben throws the ball the best out of any of these QBs. He is by far the most accurate from what we have seen. He makes big plays out of situations where he looks like he is going to get sacked. So what if he throws the ball 5-10 less times a game than some QBs? He looks great almost everytime he gets a chance to throw the ball.

Just out of curiosity, why do people hate Ben as a player?

Ben will be running more no-huddle, more passing this year. How he does will be critical, and very telling as to how good he really is. He's a very efficient QB, no one is debating that. He still needs to step up to be considered a great QB.

Smooth Criminal · 08-22-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel man

i like Ben in college above any of the others. he is bigger, stronger, has a stronger arm, smarter, can throw on the run better, and more accurate than all of the others execpt maybe and i mean maybe Rivers. i was hoping the steelers didnt want Rivers like was 1st said and the chargers like Ben like was 1st said. i am very happy with who we got.

you can say that us winning is not all Ben and you are right this is a team game. no one has won in football all by their selfs, but a player can have a bigger % than others and Ben is a Large, Large part of why we won, because we have basically the same team except QB and we could not win and then Ben comes and we go 15-1(and he did not loss the 1) break all kinds of records and come within 1 game of back to back super bowls. the reason we didnt was Ben was hurt and tired and i know we could have beat both teams because we did back to back also stopping NE's win streak.

so bottom line is i much rather have Ben!

I believe that Eli would have had the same production if he was in pittsburgh, I think a lot of people could have won a superbowl passing the ball about 15 times a game w/ a great running game and defense. in his rookie season Vinny Testaverde fumbled the ball or somthing which led to the steelers getting a FG I believe then having Vinny throw a hail mary.

Eli wouldn't have done the same. He wasn't as ready to come in and start as Ben was. I don't know why but Ben was ready to step in and start immediatley which is wierd for QBs.

And I think you are refering to the Jets playoff game where the Steelers only won because of the Jets missing two field goals I believe. If your point is that Ben didn't play well in the playoffs his rookie year then you are right. In his first time starting a playoff game he didn't look good. He was underthrowing alot of guys and he wasn't very accurate. He blamed it on injuries to his thumb butreally I just think he was nervous. I mean who wouldn't be nervous starting in the playoffs in their rookie year.

But then again Eli didn't do such a great job his first playoff game this year either.

Smooth Criminal · 08-22-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

The thing I don't get is why do people refuse to believe in what Ben does. His rookie year he was written off as a 'fluke' and said to have a 'Sophmore slump'. Since that didn't happen people say his sucess is only because of his strong supporting cast.

Ben throws the ball the best out of any of these QBs. He is by far the most accurate from what we have seen. He makes big plays out of situations where he looks like he is going to get sacked. So what if he throws the ball 5-10 less times a game than some QBs? He looks great almost everytime he gets a chance to throw the ball.

Just out of curiosity, why do people hate Ben as a player?

Ben will be running more no-huddle, more passing this year. How he does will be critical, and very telling as to how good he really is. He's a very efficient QB, no one is debating that. He still needs to step up to be considered a great QB.

He looked good in it against Minny even with Wilson and Washington starting at WR. Sure it was only preseason but that was its test and it definately passed. I hope they don't over use it and ruin what we already have that works very well.

Immaculate Tackle · 08-22-2006, 05:36 PM

It's amazing how people who hate Ben competely exaggerate things to make a point.

He only throws -23123 times a game!!! I COULD DO THAT!

His running backs average 600 yards per carry!!! RYAN LEAF COULD WIN WITH THAT!!

His defense is the greatest unit ever! THE 85 BEARS LOOK TERRIBLE COMPARED TO HIM!!!111

Temper your criticisms, people. Ben might have a good supporting cast, but he's very good in his own right. You'll see this year.

cunningham06 · 08-22-2006, 05:40 PM

Out of this group I would take Ben Roethlisberger without a doubt. Anyone who takes Eli over him is obviously blinded by how good his brother is. When will people learn, just because his brother is the best qb in football, that doesn't mean that he will be some day. Eli gets way too much love on this board.

Ravens1991 · 08-22-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel man

i like Ben in college above any of the others. he is bigger, stronger, has a stronger arm, smarter, can throw on the run better, and more accurate than all of the others execpt maybe and i mean maybe Rivers. i was hoping the steelers didnt want Rivers like was 1st said and the chargers like Ben like was 1st said. i am very happy with who we got.

you can say that us winning is not all Ben and you are right this is a team game. no one has won in football all by their selfs, but a player can have a bigger % than others and Ben is a Large, Large part of why we won, because we have basically the same team except QB and we could not win and then Ben comes and we go 15-1(and he did not loss the 1) break all kinds of records and come within 1 game of back to back super bowls. the reason we didnt was Ben was hurt and tired and i know we could have beat both teams because we did back to back also stopping NE's win streak.

so bottom line is i much rather have Ben!

I believe that Eli would have had the same production if he was in pittsburgh, I think a lot of people could have won a superbowl passing the ball about 15 times a game w/ a great running game and defense. in his rookie season Vinny Testaverde fumbled the ball or somthing which led to the steelers getting a FG I believe then having Vinny throw a hail mary.

Eli wouldn't have done the same. He wasn't as ready to come in and start as Ben was. I don't know why but Ben was ready to step in and start immediatley which is wierd for QBs.

And I think you are refering to the Jets playoff game where the Steelers only won because of the Jets missing two field goals I believe. If your point is that Ben didn't play well in the playoffs his rookie year then you are right. In his first time starting a playoff game he didn't look good. He was underthrowing alot of guys and he wasn't very accurate. He blamed it on injuries to his thumb butreally I just think he was nervous. I mean who wouldn't be nervous starting in the playoffs in their rookie year.

But then again Eli didn't do such a great job his first playoff game this year either.

no I am preety sure against Dallas that season Vinny fumbled which gave the Steelers a field goal, either way I wouldnt mind having either Rivers, Big Ben or Eli, I hope Rivers get several rings eli gets none (I really didn't like how he demanded not playing for SD, I may have understood if he said his reasons why) and of course since I am a Ravens fan I hope Big Ben nevers wins a game again.

Smooth Criminal · 08-22-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel man

i like Ben in college above any of the others. he is bigger, stronger, has a stronger arm, smarter, can throw on the run better, and more accurate than all of the others execpt maybe and i mean maybe Rivers. i was hoping the steelers didnt want Rivers like was 1st said and the chargers like Ben like was 1st said. i am very happy with who we got.

you can say that us winning is not all Ben and you are right this is a team game. no one has won in football all by their selfs, but a player can have a bigger % than others and Ben is a Large, Large part of why we won, because we have basically the same team except QB and we could not win and then Ben comes and we go 15-1(and he did not loss the 1) break all kinds of records and come within 1 game of back to back super bowls. the reason we didnt was Ben was hurt and tired and i know we could have beat both teams because we did back to back also stopping NE's win streak.

so bottom line is i much rather have Ben!

I believe that Eli would have had the same production if he was in pittsburgh, I think a lot of people could have won a superbowl passing the ball about 15 times a game w/ a great running game and defense. in his rookie season Vinny Testaverde fumbled the ball or somthing which led to the steelers getting a FG I believe then having Vinny throw a hail mary.

Eli wouldn't have done the same. He wasn't as ready to come in and start as Ben was. I don't know why but Ben was ready to step in and start immediatley which is wierd for QBs.

And I think you are refering to the Jets playoff game where the Steelers only won because of the Jets missing two field goals I believe. If your point is that Ben didn't play well in the playoffs his rookie year then you are right. In his first time starting a playoff game he didn't look good. He was underthrowing alot of guys and he wasn't very accurate. He blamed it on injuries to his thumb butreally I just think he was nervous. I mean who wouldn't be nervous starting in the playoffs in their rookie year.

But then again Eli didn't do such a great job his first playoff game this year either.

no I am preety sure against Dallas that season Vinny fumbled which gave the Steelers a field goal, either way I wouldnt mind having either Rivers, Big Ben or Eli, I hope Rivers get several rings eli gets none (I really didn't like how he demanded not playing for SD, I may have understood if he said his reasons why) and of course since I am a Ravens fan I hope Big Ben nevers wins a game again.

I was thinking of a different instance than you so disregard there.

And I agree about Eli being a little whiny *****. He may be a good QB but he will always be a whiny ***** for how he handled himself about getting taken by San Diego.

M.O.T.H. · 08-22-2006, 05:55 PM

The Chargers got the better end of the deal.

Smooth Criminal · 08-22-2006, 06:44 PM

Way better. They have Rivers who has looked good in the preseason and they got an extra first round pick out of it.

08-22-2006, 06:46 PM

I'll take manning cuz Rivers hasnt seen any NFL action yet but i like him more

Shiver · 08-22-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

Way better. They have Rivers who has looked good in the preseason and they got an extra first round pick out of it.

Agreed, because I think Rivers will be a star. He has excellent intelligence, intagibles. Eli may never be an accurate QB, nor nearly as good as his brother. That first round pick also garnered Shawne Merriman. Big win for the Chargers.

M.O.T.H. · 08-22-2006, 06:51 PM

Wasnt the pick they got out of it, one Shawne Merriman?

Shiver · 08-22-2006, 07:00 PM

Rivers
Merriman
Kaeding

Awesome for the Chargers. :shock: 8)

08-22-2006, 07:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAWICGB

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Originally Posted by Immaculate Tackle

Gee, you'd think no one saw his 3 excellent performances in the playoffs last year. His RBs had something like a 3.0 YPC. More nonsense from Ben bashers.

You mean like when the Steelers got lucky and Palmer went out early with an injury. Or like when they got lucky and Roethlisberger just barely made the tackle against the Colts after that ugly play. Or how about all of those questionable calls in the Super Bowl.

The Steelers were lucky to even make it to the Super Bowl, let alone when it. And when they made it there, they made it there on the Defense and the run game.... last time I checked Big Ben has very little influence on those aspects of the game

Then you didn't watch those games. The first three games leading up to the Superbowl were all won through the air, esspecially in Indy and Denver. The passing game is what got us to the playoffs. The superbowl was won with passing aswell, even if stats don't reflect it.

And how can you honestly say the Steelers were lucky yo beat the Colts? You bring up the 'bad calls' in the Super bowl but you forget the one that the league actually said was a bad call in the Polamalu INT. If it isn't for that call the Steelers wi the game easy.

But regardless of if the team won the Superbowl, Ben has been the best of the 4 QBs over the last two years. Say what you want about our run game and line, he took a 6-10 team to 15-1 with almost the exact same team. Ben is a great QB to the people that watch him play everyweek. Its only the idiots that base their opinions off of highlight reels and stat books that think he isn't.

I never said he was a bad QB. He's great at managing the game. He's been successful in Pittsburgh. But I highly doubt that if he were on the 3 three other teams, he'd be looking like JP Losman right now. If Rivers or Manning were on the Steelers, they'd be looking just as good, if not better than Roethlisberger right now. And he's been the best the last two years because of the supporting cast he has.

M.O.T.H. · 08-22-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAWICGB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAWICGB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immaculate Tackle

Gee, you'd think no one saw his 3 excellent performances in the playoffs last year. His RBs had something like a 3.0 YPC. More nonsense from Ben bashers.

You mean like when the Steelers got lucky and Palmer went out early with an injury. Or like when they got lucky and Roethlisberger just barely made the tackle against the Colts after that ugly play. Or how about all of those questionable calls in the Super Bowl.

The Steelers were lucky to even make it to the Super Bowl, let alone when it. And when they made it there, they made it there on the Defense and the run game.... last time I checked Big Ben has very little influence on those aspects of the game

Then you didn't watch those games. The first three games leading up to the Superbowl were all won through the air, esspecially in Indy and Denver. The passing game is what got us to the playoffs. The superbowl was won with passing aswell, even if stats don't reflect it.

And how can you honestly say the Steelers were lucky yo beat the Colts? You bring up the 'bad calls' in the Super bowl but you forget the one that the league actually said was a bad call in the Polamalu INT. If it isn't for that call the Steelers wi the game easy.

But regardless of if the team won the Superbowl, Ben has been the best of the 4 QBs over the last two years. Say what you want about our run game and line, he took a 6-10 team to 15-1 with almost the exact same team. Ben is a great QB to the people that watch him play everyweek. Its only the idiots that base their opinions off of highlight reels and stat books that think he isn't.

I never said he was a bad QB. He's great at managing the game. He's been successful in Pittsburgh. But I highly doubt that if he were on the 3 three other teams, he'd be looking like JP Losman right now. If Rivers or Manning were on the Steelers, they'd be looking just as good, if not better than Roethlisberger right now. And he's been the best the last two years because of the supporting cast he has.

I dont get why people always say this. Eli was horribly inaccurate last year, he had a completion percentage of 52%, and the only reason it was that high was becuase, he had 6'5 plax to catch his over thrown passes. The fact is the Steelers need n accurate QB to run there offense and Big Ben fits the bill, Eli on the other hand does not.

08-22-2006, 07:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Immaculate Tackle

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAWICGB

You mean like when the Steelers got lucky and Palmer went out early with an injury.

Does Palmer play defense?

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Or like when they got lucky and Roethlisberger just barely made the tackle against the Colts after that ugly play.

That invalidates Roethlisberger's performance that day?

Quote:

Or how about all of those questionable calls in the Super Bowl.

Never said he played well in the Superbowl.

Quote:

The Steelers were lucky to even make it to the Super Bowl, let alone when it. And when they made it there, they made it there on the Defense and the run game.... last time I checked Big Ben has very little influence on those aspects of the game

It's obvious you didn't watch the playoff games, just the highlights on ESPN. Congrats.

The best defense is a good offense

Many people said Roethlisberger because he has a SB ring on his finger. The comments about the playoffs were made to show that Steelers were lucky to even be in the Superbowl, they weren't just this dominate team. And my unbiased opinion today, as it was then, that it was more of a fluke than anything else.

draftguru151 · 08-22-2006, 08:21 PM

I hate when homers try to argue their point and make themselves and their fans look like fools. That's all I'm gonna say. Oh, and...

Rivers and T.A. McClendon were probably my favorite players in college that year that didn't play for Miami. Rivers is so ridiculously accurate and is so good at leading his team. I never liked Big Ben and I still think he is overrated. Eli has such a great arm and is so smart I have him over Rivers. Rivers is going to shock some people this year.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-22-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Wasnt the pick they got out of it, one Shawne Merriman?

I'd rather have Osi over Merriman.

cunningham06 · 08-22-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAWICGB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immaculate Tackle

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAWICGB

You mean like when the Steelers got lucky and Palmer went out early with an injury.

Does Palmer play defense?

Quote:

Or like when they got lucky and Roethlisberger just barely made the tackle against the Colts after that ugly play.

That invalidates Roethlisberger's performance that day?

Quote:

Or how about all of those questionable calls in the Super Bowl.

Never said he played well in the Superbowl.

Quote:

The Steelers were lucky to even make it to the Super Bowl, let alone when it. And when they made it there, they made it there on the Defense and the run game.... last time I checked Big Ben has very little influence on those aspects of the game

It's obvious you didn't watch the playoff games, just the highlights on ESPN. Congrats.

The best defense is a good offense

Many people said Roethlisberger because he has a SB ring on his finger. The comments about the playoffs were made to show that Steelers were lucky to even be in the Superbowl, they weren't just this dominate team. And my unbiased opinion today, as it was then, that it was more of a fluke than anything else.

Yea, it was just a fluke. :roll: Ben throwing 7 td's and only one interception must have been a fluke as well. He had a near perfect rating against Cinci where most qbs had terrible games. Meanwhile Eli in the playoffs threw 3 interceptions and had a qb rating of 35. Ben is more accurate than Eli, and doesn't make as many mental mistakes as Eli. Eli hasn't done anything extraordinary to be considered better than Big Ben at this point, so until he does Ben is the best qb out of that draft class.

draftguru151 · 08-22-2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Wasnt the pick they got out of it, one Shawne Merriman?

I'd rather have Osi over Merriman.

Osi was almost in that deal. :shock: Imagine, the Giants fans would have to find something else to be huge homers over.

Jughead10 · 08-22-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Wasnt the pick they got out of it, one Shawne Merriman?

I'd rather have Osi over Merriman.

Osi was almost in that deal. :shock: Imagine, the Giants fans would have to find something else to be huge homers over.

The pick that was used for Snee was almost in that deal as well. I'd rather have Snee or Osi over Merriman so I'm happy with the deal.

M.O.T.H. · 08-22-2006, 10:00 PM

You would rather have Chris Snee over Merriman???????????????WHAT!!!?!?!?!! That is one of the most homerish statements I have ever heard.

Shiver · 08-22-2006, 10:00 PM

Yeah, Snee and Umenyiora are both very good.

Jughead10 · 08-22-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

You would rather have Chris Snee over Merriman???????????????WHAT!!!?!?!?!! That is one of the most homerish statements I have ever heard.

I'm just not a fan of Merriman at all. Has nothing to do with being a homer. I have defended your boy Ware many times in past threads about who will be better. Ware will be the far superior players when all is said and done.