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Old 07-02-2007, 12:16 AM    (permalink
Mr. Stiller
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Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
1. Raiders - Randy Moss - Robert Gallery
2. Lions - Roy Williams - Jeff Backus
3. Browns - Braylon Edwards - Kevin Shaffer
4. Bucs - Joey Galloway - Anthony Davis? who?
5. Cardinals - Fitz and Boldin! - Leonard Davis
8. Texans - Andre Johnson - Ephraim Salaam


Lotta good recievers on that list....also lotta mediorce to bad LT's.

Coincidentally also the ordering of the 2007 NFL Draft....
Yea.

It's not physically impossible to complete 200+ Passes with no blindside protection.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
1. Raiders - Randy Moss - Robert Gallery
2. Lions - Roy Williams - Jeff Backus
3. Browns - Braylon Edwards - Kevin Shaffer
4. Bucs - Joey Galloway - Anthony Davis? who?
5. Cardinals - Fitz and Boldin! - Leonard Davis
8. Texans - Andre Johnson - Ephraim Salaam


Lotta good recievers on that list....also lotta mediorce to bad LT's.

Coincidentally also the ordering of the 2007 NFL Draft....


+rep for own of the day.
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players intsimy latieres are sutpdi. the players areat all unituw/ o dpmt ebem aer about wat the lpater aare calling themeslves of whatever, terhera will Its sutpid/ neever be anothe said playerm. rscj p;syhyrt uniyeee, snf rhyrtrgotr, each player autntiwue for each syste,. /
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Contr0versy View Post
Yup!

If you think a Joe Thomas will impact a team more than a Chad Johnson, then you're smoking some good ****. . . A good WR will always be more valuable than a good LT.
You sound like a person who has never played organized football.
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Old 07-02-2007, 04:04 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Contr0versy View Post
Yup!

If you think a Joe Thomas will impact a team more than a Chad Johnson, then you're smoking some good ****. . . A good WR will always be more valuable than a good LT.
Mr. Contr0versy, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

That was seriously one of the dumbest posts I have ever had the misfortune of coming across. A great LT is infinitely more valuable to a team than a great WR. Without a great LT, a great WR becomes a good WR.
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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+rep for own of the day.
Haha Thanks.
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
1. Raiders - Randy Moss - Robert Gallery
2. Lions - Roy Williams - Jeff Backus
3. Browns - Braylon Edwards - Kevin Shaffer
4. Bucs - Joey Galloway - Anthony Davis? who?
5. Cardinals - Fitz and Boldin! - Leonard Davis
8. Texans - Andre Johnson - Ephraim Salaam


Lotta good recievers on that list....also lotta mediorce to bad LT's.

Coincidentally also the ordering of the 2007 NFL Draft....

1. Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce - Orlando Pace!


you forgot about him
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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1. Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce - Orlando Pace!


you forgot about him
If you actually read his post you would have seen its the 5 worst teams in the NFL otherwise known as ordering of the 2007 draft.
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players intsimy latieres are sutpdi. the players areat all unituw/ o dpmt ebem aer about wat the lpater aare calling themeslves of whatever, terhera will Its sutpid/ neever be anothe said playerm. rscj p;syhyrt uniyeee, snf rhyrtrgotr, each player autntiwue for each syste,. /
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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WTF people are smoking crack in this thread! LT>WR every time. If you disagree, you are a ball watcher.
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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You sound like a person who has never played organized football.
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.
You sure you weren't already dumb before reading it? Just a thought. . . :D

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That was seriously one of the dumbest posts I have ever had the misfortune of coming across. A great LT is infinitely more valuable to a team than a great WR. Without a great LT, a great WR becomes a good WR.
So explain to me the GREATNESS of Cris Carter & Randy Moss in Minnesota? Did they ever have a GREAT, future Hall of Fame LT on their team? Iíll let you ponder on that for a minute, ole wise one. . .

Now please explain to me how the Vikings could have two GREAT WRs without a GREAT LT, since according to you, and I quote, ďwithout a great LT, a great WR becomes a good WR.Ē (Now thatís the most idiotic thing Iíve ever heard on here) So you see, Mr. Sniper, it doesnít take a GREAT LT in order for a WR to be a GREAT. It doesnít even take a great LT for a QB to be a great (See Dan Marino, especially in í84), nor does it take a great LT for a team to have a winning season and become Superbowl contenders (The 2002 Raiders proved that when they led the league in total passing yards & ranked 2nd in total yards all without a GREAT LT). All it takes is a DECENT LT. How many teams have won Superbowls WITHOUT having GREAT LTs? All you need is a decent LT to get the job done. . . Youíre acting like Michael Irvin wouldnít have been GREAT if it werenít for Erik Williams and Nate Newton. Irvin would have been great regardless.

Back to Joe Thomas. . .

IMO, no LT, especially an unproven rookie, is worth the same amount of money as a GREAT/GOOD/FRANCHISE QB, WR, RB, etc. They just do not impact the game the same way a QB, WR, and RB does. Once again, and this is for those who have poor reading comprehension skills, Iím not saying an LT role is unimportant, because it is, but they donít put points on the board. Iíll take a decent LT and a great WR any day over a great LT and a decent WR. Average to decent WRs come up short (See Reche Caldwell) in big games, but decent LTs can hold their own when need be.
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
1. Raiders - Randy Moss - Robert Gallery
2. Lions - Roy Williams - Jeff Backus
3. Browns - Braylon Edwards - Kevin Shaffer
4. Bucs - Joey Galloway - Anthony Davis? who?
5. Cardinals - Fitz and Boldin! - Leonard Davis
8. Texans - Andre Johnson - Ephraim Salaam


Lotta good recievers on that list....also lotta mediorce to bad LT's.

Coincidentally also the ordering of the 2007 NFL Draft....
.... Oh, tag.
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Contr0versy View Post
You sure you weren't already dumb before reading it? Just a thought. . . :D

So explain to me the GREATNESS of Cris Carter & Randy Moss in Minnesota? Did they ever have a GREAT, future Hall of Fame LT on their team? Iíll let you ponder on that for a minute, ole wise one. . .

Now please explain to me how the Vikings could have two GREAT WRs without a GREAT LT, since according to you, and I quote, ďwithout a great LT, a great WR becomes a good WR.Ē (Now thatís the most idiotic thing Iíve ever heard on here) So you see, Mr. Sniper, it doesnít take a GREAT LT in order for a WR to be a GREAT. It doesnít even take a great LT for a QB to be a great (See Dan Marino, especially in í84), nor does it take a great LT for a team to have a winning season and become Superbowl contenders (The 2002 Raiders proved that when they led the league in total passing yards & ranked 2nd in total yards all without a GREAT LT). All it takes is a DECENT LT. How many teams have won Superbowls WITHOUT having GREAT LTs? All you need is a decent LT to get the job done. . . Youíre acting like Michael Irvin wouldnít have been GREAT if it werenít for Erik Williams and Nate Newton. Irvin would have been great regardless.

Back to Joe Thomas. . .

IMO, no LT, especially an unproven rookie, is worth the same amount of money as a GREAT/GOOD/FRANCHISE QB, WR, RB, etc. They just do not impact the game the same way a QB, WR, and RB does. Once again, and this is for those who have poor reading comprehension skills, Iím not saying an LT role is unimportant, because it is, but they donít put points on the board. Iíll take a decent LT and a great WR any day over a great LT and a decent WR. Average to decent WRs come up short (See Reche Caldwell) in big games, but decent LTs can hold their own when need be.
Good lord, you really have no clue. You don't need Ogden/Pace to be the best team in the NFL. For every decent LT you name me from a good team, I can name you a decent but not great QB/RB/WR. There really isn't a position where you absolutely need a future HOFer. You need the right blend of talent. However, the best teams generally have a good O-line. Case in point: The Baltimore Ravens in the same year as that great Vikings team. Their defense was the best part of their team, but offensively, they had a great line. But you know, I bet Jermaine Lewis was the true impact player on the Ravens offense.
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Old 07-03-2007, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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So explain to me the GREATNESS of Cris Carter & Randy Moss in Minnesota? Did they ever have a GREAT, future Hall of Fame LT on their team? Iíll let you ponder on that for a minute, ole wise one. . .
Yeah, its not like that Vikings offense was one of the best ever or anything...of course there can be good WRs, but its more important your QBs blind side is protected then he have good WRs to throw to, and if you don't think that you play a little too much Madden or only watch the highlight reels. Or put it this way....Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are both having incredible years. The Left Tackle screws up, Peyton is out for the season, and now Jim Sorgi is in there. Do Harrison and Wayne do as good? Was it more important to have a good WR, or ensusre the protection of multiple offensive players, who are at the center of the scheme?

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Now please explain to me how the Vikings could have two GREAT WRs without a GREAT LT, since according to you, and I quote, ďwithout a great LT, a great WR becomes a good WR.Ē (Now thatís the most idiotic thing Iíve ever heard on here) So you see, Mr. Sniper, it doesnít take a GREAT LT in order for a WR to be a GREAT. It doesnít even take a great LT for a QB to be a great (See Dan Marino, especially in í84), nor does it take a great LT for a team to have a winning season and become Superbowl contenders (The 2002 Raiders proved that when they led the league in total passing yards & ranked 2nd in total yards all without a GREAT LT). All it takes is a DECENT LT. How many teams have won Superbowls WITHOUT having GREAT LTs? All you need is a decent LT to get the job done. . . Youíre acting like Michael Irvin wouldnít have been GREAT if it werenít for Erik Williams and Nate Newton. Irvin would have been great regardless.
Wow, you could just as easily say all it takes is a great LT and decent WRs.

Flat out, WRs are not as important as LT's. WR's are more easily replaced, more dependent on other positions, do not protect other positions, and are not even an overwhelming aspect of the game without the help of others.

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Back to Joe Thomas. . .

IMO, no LT, especially an unproven rookie, is worth the same amount of money as a GREAT/GOOD/FRANCHISE QB, WR, RB, etc. They just do not impact the game the same way a QB, WR, and RB does. Once again, and this is for those who have poor reading comprehension skills, Iím not saying an LT role is unimportant, because it is, but they donít put points on the board. Iíll take a decent LT and a great WR any day over a great LT and a decent WR. Average to decent WRs come up short (See Reche Caldwell) in big games, but decent LTs can hold their own when need be.
First of all, average to decent WRs do not always come up short, and citing one example of that proves nothing. 2000 Baltimore Ravens. 2001 New England Patriots. 2003 New England Patriots. 2004 New England Patriots. Where were the "great WR's" on those teams.

Also, I get your not saying its unimportant, but none of those positions are much of anything without a LT. Your QB is under constant pressure without protection from the LT. How many instances are there of QBs not being able to do anything without solid protection....Couch, Carr, Harrington for rookies and up, but then even good QBs who moved to different places, like Jeff Garcia going from San Fran, until he landed in Philly was horrible. It's not like he just lost it either, look what he was able to do last season. Or QBs who weren't anything special until they had time to throw the ball. LT protects those players on every single play, and ensures the safety of the team's leader. QB is more important then a LT, so I'm not gonna argue that anymore, but RB and WR are so interchangable, to think one of them could be more important is ridiculous. Good RBs and WRs are a dime a dozen whereas a good LT is much harder to find.
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Old 07-05-2007, 04:45 AM    (permalink
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I can't believe anyone would ever argue that WR is more important than LT. Just cant see it. I cant see WR over any part of the OL to be honest. Sounds like something someone who has never played at any level would say. As someone who has played both offense and defense with and without a good line, the line makes all the difference. A good line is the difference between a good team and a bad team. The other parts around them dictate whether the team is great or just good still. For instance the Colts put great WRs and a QB around a great line and are a great team. The Vikings have 3/5 of a great line but they surround it with nobodies and are a poor team.

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Old 07-05-2007, 05:11 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Contr0versy View Post
You sure you weren't already dumb before reading it? Just a thought. . . :D

So explain to me the GREATNESS of Cris Carter & Randy Moss in Minnesota? Did they ever have a GREAT, future Hall of Fame LT on their team? Iíll let you ponder on that for a minute, ole wise one. . .

Now please explain to me how the Vikings could have two GREAT WRs without a GREAT LT, since according to you, and I quote, ďwithout a great LT, a great WR becomes a good WR.Ē (Now thatís the most idiotic thing Iíve ever heard on here) So you see, Mr. Sniper, it doesnít take a GREAT LT in order for a WR to be a GREAT. It doesnít even take a great LT for a QB to be a great (See Dan Marino, especially in í84), nor does it take a great LT for a team to have a winning season and become Superbowl contenders (The 2002 Raiders proved that when they led the league in total passing yards & ranked 2nd in total yards all without a GREAT LT). All it takes is a DECENT LT. How many teams have won Superbowls WITHOUT having GREAT LTs? All you need is a decent LT to get the job done. . . Youíre acting like Michael Irvin wouldnít have been GREAT if it werenít for Erik Williams and Nate Newton. Irvin would have been great regardless.

Back to Joe Thomas. . .

IMO, no LT, especially an unproven rookie, is worth the same amount of money as a GREAT/GOOD/FRANCHISE QB, WR, RB, etc. They just do not impact the game the same way a QB, WR, and RB does. Once again, and this is for those who have poor reading comprehension skills, Iím not saying an LT role is unimportant, because it is, but they donít put points on the board. Iíll take a decent LT and a great WR any day over a great LT and a decent WR. Average to decent WRs come up short (See Reche Caldwell) in big games, but decent LTs can hold their own when need be.
Wow cool 12 year old response. You're awesome. If you can legitimately think that a great WR is more valuable to a team than a great WR, you are truly smoking some incredible ****. Basic point was if your QB has no protection, how the **** is he supposed to get your WR the ball? So you're saying the Cowboys incredible offensive line didn't help Irvin at all? No, I guess Aikman was able to drop back and avoid every single pass rusher on his own and fire bullets to Irvin right? By the way, what great WRs did the Pats have in their run recently? Average to decent WRs come up short like Reche Caldwell? Reche Caldwell ******* SUCKS! Tell Bill Belichick he needs great wideouts to win a Super Bowl and see what he tells you. Funny you ask about how many SB teams have won without a great LT, considering every team you listed other than the Cowboys (Vikings, Raiders, Dolphins) didn't win a Super Bowl with their high powered offenses and great receivers.
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Old 07-05-2007, 05:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
Wow cool 12 year old response. You're awesome. If you can legitimately think that a great WR is more valuable to a team than a great WR, you are truly smoking some incredible ****. Basic point was if your QB has no protection, how the **** is he supposed to get your WR the ball? So you're saying the Cowboys incredible offensive line didn't help Irvin at all? No, I guess Aikman was able to drop back and avoid every single pass rusher on his own and fire bullets to Irvin right? By the way, what great WRs did the Pats have in their run recently? Average to decent WRs come up short like Reche Caldwell? Reche Caldwell ******* SUCKS! Tell Bill Belichick he needs great wideouts to win a Super Bowl and see what he tells you. Funny you ask about how many SB teams have won without a great LT, considering every team you listed other than the Cowboys (Vikings, Raiders, Dolphins) didn't win a Super Bowl with their high powered offenses and great receivers.
I agree with your point about LT > WR, but Bill Belichick did have a pretty good receiver in Deion Branch during his super bowl runs with Branch even taking out MVP honors.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 24cadillac24 View Post
I agree with your point about LT > WR, but Bill Belichick did have a pretty good receiver in Deion Branch during his super bowl runs with Branch even taking out MVP honors.
Yeah but you would never say Branch is a GREAT WR would you? Branch is pretty good, like you said, but he's not great as in the same way that Torry Holt, Steve Smith etc.... are.
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