Professional Wrestling Thread - Page 101

MaxV · 07-06-2007, 11:41 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Undertaker get a VERY quick push also?

SuperKevin · 07-06-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxV

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Undertaker get a VERY quick push also?

Undertaker wrestled in WCW as Mean Mark Callous prior to joining the WWF. Our issue with Goldberg isn't the fact that he recieved a quick push, its the fact that he recieved such a push without ever stepping in a wrestling ring

MaxV · 07-06-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperKevin

Undertaker wrestled in WCW as Mean Mark Callous prior to joining the WWF

Thanks for correcting me. :)

TPFKA#1SaintsFan · 07-06-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Wow are you ready to be proven wrong? If not then don't read this:

Haha, cute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

First of all the post you quoted from SuperKevin was a sentiment that I share as well, Goldberg was a stiff bodybuilder type, and had no mic skills. And before you start grumbling, saying "You're Next!" is not equivalent to great mic skills.

Before you started grumbling, you should have taken the time to READ everything I posted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

Did he pay his dues, did he have mic skills? No, but that's not my point. The Power Plant "developed" one of the biggest stars in the history of wrestling in Bill Goldberg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Secondly, the same reason you're bashing John Cena for being "forced down the throats of fans" is the same exact reason Goldberg got over.

Sigh... once again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

By the way, John Cena didn't exactly pay his dues. He's been forced down the throats of fans every bit as much as Goldberg; the only difference being Goldberg was a hell of a lot more popular with fans.

Do you have ANY comprehension skills whatsoever? Anything? Both were forced down the throats of fans. Yes, that sure is the reason why Goldberg got over. But Cena hasn't come close to reaching Goldberg's popularity, and he's been forced down throats every bit as much as Goldberg was. Can you really argue against that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

And lastly, you are totally wrong in your assumption that John Cena never paid his dues. He actually came up in the wrestling industry from childhood, his father his heavily involved with local territories in the New England area not to mention that Cena was in developmental territories for years wrestling as The Prototype in UPW and OVW notably. Cena paid his dues and gives back to the industry, unlike your boy Goldberg.

Okay, I didn't make myself completely clear; I thought you would be able to catch on to what I was getting at, but obviously I overrated your ability to do so. Cena definitely paid his dues before he got to the WWE, something Goldberg never had to do before joining WCW: This is a 100% true statement. BUT, Cena never paid his dues IN WWE. Hell, his first ever match was a highly competitive one with an already established superstar in Kurt Angle, in which Angle pretty much put him over. I honestly don't care about what Cena did before he made it to the WWE; it is irrelevant to the point at hand. Look at guys like Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Edge, JBL, hell even HHH. They all paid dues on the active roster before they got main event pushes. All I'm saying is that, much like Goldberg, Cena never had to do that.

I find it so very funny that you left me rep claiming that I was the uninformed one...

SuperKevin · 07-06-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

Haha, cute.

Before you started grumbling, you should have taken the time to READ everything I posted:

Sigh... once again:

Do you have ANY comprehension skills whatsoever? Anything? Both were forced down the throats of fans. Yes, that sure is the reason why Goldberg got over. But Cena hasn't come close to reaching Goldberg's popularity, and he's been forced down throats every bit as much as Goldberg was. Can you really argue against that?

Okay, I didn't make myself completely clear; I thought you would be able to catch on to what I was getting at, but obviously I overrated your ability to do so. Cena definitely paid his dues before he got to the WWE, something Goldberg never had to do before joining WCW: This is a 100% true statement. BUT, Cena never paid his dues IN WWE. Hell, his first ever match was a highly competitive one with an already established superstar in Kurt Angle, in which Angle pretty much put him over. I honestly don't care about what Cena did before he made it to the WWE; it is irrelevant to the point at hand. Look at guys like Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Edge, JBL, hell even HHH. They all paid dues on the active roster before they got main event pushes. All I'm saying is that, much like Goldberg, Cena never had to do that.

I find it so very funny that you left me rep claiming that I was the uninformed one...

Yes but the WWE wanted to reward someone for progressing so well in their farm league the OVW. They pushed Cena as a message to all the other guys working in OVW that hard work will get you rewarded

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

Haha, cute.

Before you started grumbling, you should have taken the time to READ everything I posted:

Sigh... once again:

Do you have ANY comprehension skills whatsoever? Anything? Both were forced down the throats of fans. Yes, that sure is the reason why Goldberg got over. But Cena hasn't come close to reaching Goldberg's popularity, and he's been forced down throats every bit as much as Goldberg was. Can you really argue against that?

Okay, I didn't make myself completely clear; I thought you would be able to catch on to what I was getting at, but obviously I overrated your ability to do so. Cena definitely paid his dues before he got to the WWE, something Goldberg never had to do before joining WCW: This is a 100% true statement. BUT, Cena never paid his dues IN WWE. Hell, his first ever match was a highly competitive one with an already established superstar in Kurt Angle, in which Angle pretty much put him over. I honestly don't care about what Cena did before he made it to the WWE; it is irrelevant to the point at hand. Look at guys like Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Edge, JBL, hell even HHH. They all paid dues on the active roster before they got main event pushes. All I'm saying is that, much like Goldberg, Cena never had to do that.

I find it so very funny that you left me rep claiming that I was the uninformed one...

Why do I think we may have found the next troll of this thread? You make bs claims, then claim how people misinterpret your theories and just want to nitpick over things you don't comprehend.

Cena's accomplishments in the developmental territories is ABSOLUTELY Relevant to this debate. The sheer fact that you dismiss them shows you may not understand the industry at all.

Now lets move on to your list of guys:

Shawn Michaels - Entered the WWE as a tag team specialist with Marty Jannety as The Rockers based on their accomplishments in the AWA. It wasn't for a couple of years that he was made a singles wrestler.

Steve Austin - Entered the WWE as the Ringmaster with The Million Dollar Man as his mouthpiece, thus negating his mic skills

Edge - Another tag team specialist, ala Shawn Michaels

JBL - Never had a workable angle to use before he was made to tag with then Faarooq which became an angle for years to come.

These guys don't have total control of their angles or storylines so to say certain guys "pay their dues" on the active roster is a bit ridiculous. All these guys either did it in developmental territories or other brands before coming to the WWE. Obviously Cena gets a push due to his mic skills plus the fact that his character can instantly draw pops and/or heat at any given time.

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperKevin

Yes but the WWE wanted to reward someone for progressing so well in their farm league the OVW. They pushed Cena as a message to all the other guys working in OVW that hard work will get you rewarded

Hence the push CM Punk is receiving now.

SuperKevin · 07-06-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Why do I think we may have found the next troll of this thread? You make bs claims, then claim how people misinterpret your theories and just want to nitpick over things you don't comprehend.

Cena's accomplishments in the developmental territories is ABSOLUTELY Relevant to this debate. The sheer fact that you dismiss them shows you may not understand the industry at all.

Now lets move on to your list of guys:

Shawn Michaels - Entered the WWE as a tag team specialist with Marty Jannety as The Rockers based on their accomplishments in the AWA. It wasn't for a couple of years that he was made a singles wrestler.

Steve Austin - Entered the WWE as the Ringmaster with The Million Dollar Man as his mouthpiece, thus negating his mic skills

Edge - Another tag team specialist, ala Shawn Michaels

JBL - Never had a workable angle to use before he was made to tag with then Faarooq which became an angle for years to come.

These guys don't have total control of their angles or storylines so to say certain guys "pay their dues" on the active roster is a bit ridiculous. All these guys either did it in developmental territories or other brands before coming to the WWE. Obviously Cena gets a push due to his mic skills plus the fact that his character can instantly draw pops and/or heat at any given time.

You misunderstood what he said. He said Austin, Michaels, Edge, JBL all DID pay their dues

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperKevin

You misunderstood what he said. He said Austin, Michaels, Edge, JBL all DID pay their dues

Ok, but in other areas before the WWE. Ah the hell with this, I need to wakeup and get more coffee..........

TPFKA#1SaintsFan · 07-06-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Why do I think we may have found the next troll of this thread? You make bs claims, then claim how people misinterpret your theories and just want to nitpick over things you don't comprehend.

Cena's accomplishments in the developmental territories is ABSOLUTELY Relevant to this debate. The sheer fact that you dismiss them shows you may not understand the industry at all.

Now lets move on to your list of guys:

Shawn Michaels - Entered the WWE as a tag team specialist with Marty Jannety as The Rockers based on their accomplishments in the AWA. It wasn't for a couple of years that he was made a singles wrestler.

Steve Austin - Entered the WWE as the Ringmaster with The Million Dollar Man as his mouthpiece, thus negating his mic skills

Edge - Another tag team specialist, ala Shawn Michaels

JBL - Never had a workable angle to use before he was made to tag with then Faarooq which became an angle for years to come.

These guys don't have total control of their angles or storylines so to say certain guys "pay their dues" on the active roster is a bit ridiculous. All these guys either did it in developmental territories or other brands before coming to the WWE. Obviously Cena gets a push due to his mic skills plus the fact that his character can instantly draw pops and/or heat at any given time.

Seriously... and I mean seriously, I'm not even trying to continue this argument, but WHAT THE HELL are you talking about? Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Are your comprehension skills really THAT bad?

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

Seriously... and I mean seriously, I'm not even trying to continue this argument, but WHAT THE HELL are you talking about? Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Are your comprehension skills really THAT bad?

When I first wakeup: Yes, yes they are

Acreboy · 07-06-2007, 12:33 PM

I'm not quoting anything but Cena has surpassed any superstar status Goldberg has ever reached.

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreboy

I'm not quoting anything but Cena has surpassed any superstar status Goldberg has ever reached.

I'd agree with that........

TPFKA#1SaintsFan · 07-06-2007, 12:49 PM

BigDawg - I think the problem we're having right now is that, when you're not misreading the things I say, you're reading too far into them. Honestly, I'm not even sure how this whole debate got started. My original point was that WCW Power Plant DID produce a star in Goldberg. That's all. I wasn't trying to defend whether he was deserving or not. I compared the situation to John Cena which, I admit, may have been a terrible comparison. They both got big pushes almost instantly once they made it to the big companies. I did not take into consideration the dues Cena paid BEFORE he made it to the WWE roster, just as I did not take into consideration Goldberg's lack of dues paid BEFORE he made it to WCW. When I compared Goldberg/Cena paying dues, I was speaking strictly of their beginnings in WCW/WWE. I may be at fault for that, but you're definitely at fault for reading too far into it. Can we agree on that and just drop it?

I think you're a knowledgeable poster and I'd like to think the same of myself, but today's obviously not been a good day for either of us. I did not appreciate some of the things you said about me, but I'm going to go ahead and chalk it up to the moment.

One last thing - unless WCW dubbed crowd noise to his entrances, Goldberg was WAY more over than Cena is now or ever has been.

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan

BigDawg - I think the problem we're having right now is that, when you're not misreading the things I say, you're reading too far into them. Honestly, I'm not even sure how this whole debate got started. My original point was that WCW Power Plant DID produce a star in Goldberg. That's all. I wasn't trying to defend whether he was deserving or not. I compared the situation to John Cena which, I admit, may have been a terrible comparison. They both got big pushes almost instantly once they made it to the big companies. I did not take into consideration the dues Cena paid BEFORE he made it to the WWE roster, just as I did not take into consideration Goldberg's lack of dues paid BEFORE he made it to WCW. When I compared Goldberg/Cena paying dues, I was speaking strictly of their beginnings in WCW/WWE. I may be at fault for that, but you're definitely at fault for reading too far into it. Can we agree on that and just drop it?

I think you're a knowledgeable poster and I'd like to think the same of myself, but today's obviously not been a good day for either of us. I did not appreciate some of the things you said about me, but I'm going to go ahead and chalk it up to the moment.

One last thing - unless WCW dubbed crowd noise to his entrances, Goldberg was WAY more over than Cena is now or ever has been.

I'll drop it just fine, but your a tad bit wrong with your remarks about Cena not paying his dues. He worked his way up to the top from mid-card status and yes its in part because of his mic skills and crowd appeal. Goldberg was a writer creation plain and simple, they fed him squash matches and never let him get into the ring with a guy who would expose his flaws. But I will drop it.

As for the WCW dubbing crowd noise, its very likely they did but I'm not 100% sure, although I know that they did when he was in WWE.

comahan · 07-06-2007, 08:27 PM

Matt Hardy for World Champ!

That is all.

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comahan

Matt Hardy for World Champ!

That is all.

Kane for World Champ!

That is better.

comahan · 07-06-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Kane for World Champ!

That is better.

That i agree with. I would love a Kane run. Just give him some random angle, god knows he'll at least TRY and make it work.

M.O.T.H. · 07-06-2007, 08:36 PM

Is the other Hardy still wrestling?

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Is the other Hardy still wrestling?

Jeff is on RAW.

comahan · 07-06-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Is the other Hardy still wrestling?

Yea, Matt is on Smackdown, Jeff is on Raw. Theyve been tagging for the last few months, but its cooled off in the last 2 weeks.

M.O.T.H. · 07-06-2007, 08:38 PM

Yeah, I was watching a little tonight and wondering where Jeff was.

BigDawg819 · 07-06-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Yeah, I was watching a little tonight and wondering where Jeff was.

Jeff needs to be a singles star, I feel he has a much higher ceiling of the 2 but Matt is holding his own on Smackdown.

Acreboy · 07-06-2007, 08:44 PM

RAW is coming to Lafayette next Monday!!!

comahan · 07-06-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDawg819

Jeff needs to be a singles star, I feel he has a much higher ceiling of the 2 but Matt is holding his own on Smackdown.

I feel the opposite actually. I think Matt would be a great upper midcard (US title, get a few World title shots) guy, but I think Jeff is fine as a singles guy.