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Old 08-29-2006, 12:11 PM    (permalink
Dillen
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
However, the Eagles also have three new starters on the interior, and their two Tackles are coming back from season ending injuries, so that is a question laden team as well.
It's pretty much the same thing, but you just meesed up on a couple small counts.

The Eagles have 2 new starters on the interior, Herremans and Jackson.

Runyan didnt have a season ending injury. Herremans did, and he played tackle after Tra so it's somewhat the same.

Tra Thomas probably would have been able to play last year but they were precautionary, same thing with Westbrook.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Didnt Tra Thomas change his name?
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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He goes by William, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:19 PM    (permalink
Dillen
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Didnt Tra Thomas change his name?
Sort of. He was called by Tra, but he was William Thomas III. The third is where Tra came from.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.
Didnt Tra Thomas change his name?
Sort of. He was called by Tra, but he was William Thomas III. The third is where Tra came from.
Interesting, I never knew that. Thanks.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Most of your arguments are based off stats from years past. I'm looking ahead to this year. I personally feel that Portis is a better back than Barber. Both are great backs but I think Portis has the edge at this point in their careers. This opinion is simply based on watching both play and seeing how much they help their teams. Barber helps out more in the passing game but I think it's pretty special what Portis can accomplish along the ground. Again, I'm of the opinion that stats rarely tell the whole story and simply comparing YPC, total yards, etc. is pointless.
So someone brings cold hard facts to the table regarding the way things have been, and somehow a "gut feeling" overrules that? Don't get me wrong, because I am not one of those guys that hides behind numbers and touts stats as being the be-all and end-all of arguments. However, there are times when stats do tell the whole story. Barber didn't just narrowly edge out Portis the last two years, he DESTROYED him. Portis has not been an efficient runner since he left Denver. There have only been one or two games that I've watched Portis and said "wow, he looks unstoppable right now". But when he was in Denver, that's how he looked almost every single game. He was a monster. Tiki, on the other hand, has looked that way in several games. He has been the life blood of that team for two straight years. There is just no way to argue that Portis has been a better back than Barber in recent times, and if he hasn't been better in recent times, then you have to come up with a solid argument as to why it will be different this season. You, nor anyone else with your opinion, has come up with a satisfactory answer to this question. So, imo, the burden of proof lies upon you.

Quote:
As far as Dallas' line goes, it's obviously too early to tell for sure if they're going to be the worst but I wouldn't hesitate in saying that they are the biggest question mark in the division. What line would you argue has more questions than the Cowboys?
Much better. They definitely have the most question marks, and I can live with that. However, the Eagles also have three new starters on the interior, and their two Tackles are coming back from season ending injuries, so that is a question laden team as well. But I can deal much easier with being labeled as a "question filled" line as opposed to the "worst" one. There is a lot of potential there for us to be successful, and we do have two Pro Bowl lineman along with probably the most coveted young guard from FA. So there is some pieces that offer promise, along with a young 7th round tackle that Parcells has positively gushed about.

Quote:
As far as Bledsoe goes, I've just noticed that he can be erratic at times. On one drive he'll look like the best QB in the league orchaestrating a picture perfect drive downfield resulting in 6 points. Then on the next drive he'll look like a rookie who doesn't grasp the playbook. I think he's extremely talented he just seems to lack focus at times. Maybe I'm missing something, but he's obviously made his fair share of mistakes if he threw 17 INTs last season.
So....Tom Brady threw 14. Does that qualify him for that same moniker? I agree that there have been times when Bledsoe has looked a little shaky. But I strongly disagree with the rap that he has gotten around the league and specifically on this forum. I would take him right now before all but about 8 or 9 QBs in this league; guys that get much more respect than Bledsoe. I also disagree with your characterization. Every QB in the league struggles at times. Even Peyton. Even Brady. But Bledsoe, at least last year, has never looked as bad as you just described him. Every once in a great while he will "go off the reservation" , as Parcells describes it, but his game is very refined. Another thing is that he has had to work behind a really bad offensive line for the last 4 consecutive years. Something that is particularly problematic for him, though every QB would struggle with it.
In terms of the Portis Vs. Barber debate, it's not a "gut feeling" I'm going on. It's simply who I think is the better overall back. I've watched them both quite a bit and I think Portis is the better runner. He's tough as nails and is an absolute workhorse who can pound the ball while also having the speed and moves to take it the distance on any play. Barber is good too and I like his vision but I don't think he's as good as Portis overall.

As far as Bledsoe goes, I've just noticed a lot of inconsistency in him. I think it's mostly because his highest level of play is up there with the best in the league but his basement is pretty terrible.
But Barber puts up better numbers despite Portis having the better line.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Because Tiki was in a system that played to his stength while Portis wasn't.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Because Tiki was in a system that played to his stength while Portis wasn't.
They actually run very similar running plays. It is the passing game that differs between the two teams.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Because Tiki was in a system that played to his stength while Portis wasn't.
So you think Portis is better than Tiki?
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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However, the Eagles also have three new starters on the interior, and their two Tackles are coming back from season ending injuries, so that is a question laden team as well.
It's pretty much the same thing, but you just meesed up on a couple small counts.

The Eagles have 2 new starters on the interior, Herremans and Jackson.

Runyan didnt have a season ending injury. Herremans did, and he played tackle after Tra so it's somewhat the same.

Tra Thomas probably would have been able to play last year but they were precautionary, same thing with Westbrook.
The third guy I was referring to is Shawn Andrews. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that he was not a full time starter last year, and that he only was the regular in the second half. If I'm mistaken, then oh well, but my original point was that there are questions in the interior for them, and having a young guy that hasn't necessarily proven himself yet is a question. He may end up being a star, but he still isn't a proven commodity yet. That's all I was saying.
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From what? His leg?
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Andrews has been #1 on the depth chart at RG since he was drafted. He was awesome in his rookie preseason and the first half of the Giants game before he broke his leg. He completely dominated Norman Hand, who wasnt washed up at the time.

Andrews was a Pro Bowl alternate last year. Rex Ryan said he's the best guard in the NFL. I dont agree with that yet, but he's pretty proven IMO.
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Old 08-29-2006, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Andrews has been #1 on the depth chart at RG since he was drafted. He was awesome in his rookie preseason and the first half of the Giants game before he broke his leg. He completely dominated Norman Hand, who wasnt washed up at the time.

Andrews was a Pro Bowl alternate last year. Rex Ryan said he's the best guard in the NFL. I dont agree with that yet, but he's pretty proven IMO.
Ever since that game I have been in love with Andrews. His initial punch is just as good AS ANY GUARD IN THE NFL. Not the greatest pass protector in the world and he will struggle to get to the second level sometimes, but he still ranks in the top 10 guards in my book.
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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Shawn Andrews is poised to have a career year, mark it down. He is just as good as Snee, and I consider Snee a top 5 guard in the league.

And to answer your counterpoint DMW, I completely understand your point of view on WR set, just hear me out. There is no doubt that TO>>>Plax and Glenn>>>Toomer, but when we talk about WRs, a great WR set has solid potential out of 3 to 4 guys. Outside of TO and Glenn, there isn't any established slot or 4th WR for Dallas. Crayton has been playing great, but even at his best he is not better than Carter. NY's 4 WR set is Plax, Toomer, Sinorice, and Carter. I understand Sinorice hasn't played a down yet, but you pretty much know what youre gonna get out of him, he's a deepball/screen pass slot guy, and Carter seems like he has finally put it all together this year...however I won't project him to be great because I know better with him, he's due for an injury. But either way, Carter/Sinorice as 3 and 4 are much more solid than Crayton and ? that Dallas has. I have confidence that we can run "double wide" man coverage against Dallas's 4 WR set and be successful, because Crayton and ? as the 4 probably won't punish man coverage against Nickel and Dime corners.

However Sinorice and Carter have a lot of potential to beat their respective Man coverages. Thats where I give the edge to NYG. Yes, your starting 2 are better than our starting 2, but its not like our starting 2 is trash. Couple that with the fact that we have better depth at 3 and 4, NY having the best WR set is feasable. But making a case for Dallas is equally feasable. Its another pick your flavor if you think about it. Its like the TE debate reversed, this time you have more star power whereas we will probably have more depth at a comparable level of play.
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Even if you disagree with BBD, you've gotta respect the time and thought he puts into his analysis...
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Alright I will give my positional rankings for the NFC East

---QB
1-Eagles
2a-Giants
2b-Cowboys
4-Redskins

---RB

1-Giants
2-Redskins
3-Cowboys
4-Eagles

---WR

1-Cowboys
2a-Redskins
2b-Giants
4-Eagles

---TE

1-Giants
2-Cowboys
3-Redkins
4-Eagles

---OL

1-Redskins
2-Giants
3-Eagles
4-Cowboys

---DE

1-Giants
2-Eagles
3-Redskins
4-Cowboys

---DT/NT

1-Redskins
2-Eagles
3-Cowboys
4-Giants

---OLB

1-Cowboys
2-Giants
3-Redskins
4-Eagles

---MLB/ILB

1-Giants
2-Cowboys
3-Eagles
4-Redskins

---CB

1-Eagles
2-Cowboys
3-Redskins
4-Giants

---S

1-Redskins
2-Giants
3-Eagles
4-Cowboys

---K

1-Eagles
2a-Giants
2b-Redskins
4-Cowboys

---P

1-Giants
2-Cowboys
3-Redskins
4-Eagles

---Return Game

1-Eagles
2-Giants
3-Cowboys
4-Redskins
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:36 PM    (permalink
 
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Because Tiki was in a system that played to his stength while Portis wasn't.
They actually run very similar running plays. It is the passing game that differs between the two teams.
I was told that the giants use a cutback running game by one of you giants fans on here. If that is true there running plays are nothing alike.
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Because Tiki was in a system that played to his stength while Portis wasn't.
They actually run very similar running plays. It is the passing game that differs between the two teams.
I was told that the giants use a cutback running game by one of you giants fans on here. If that is true there running plays are nothing alike.
A lot of plays are not designed for the cutback, but Tiki just has a knack for knowing where the defense will be and where they will not be.
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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#10: You have to give more credit to the Eagles O-Line and Safeties. I really think you missed on those rankings, especially with the Safeties. Dawkins and Lewis are arguably the best safety group in the league, and I think they're the best overall in the division. As for O-Line, I would argue they're in a second place tie with the Giants, but that's more a matter of opinion.

With regards to TE's, I think it goes Dallas with Witten, the Washington with Cooley, then Shockey and the Giants. You have to look at overall blocking as well as receiving. Witten is the most complete TE in the division, so I think Dallas is #1.
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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#10: You have to give more credit to the Eagles O-Line and Safeties. I really think you missed on those rankings, especially with the Safeties. Dawkins and Lewis are arguably the best safety group in the league, and I think they're the best overall in the division. As for O-Line, I would argue they're in a second place tie with the Giants, but that's more a matter of opinion.

With regards to TE's, I think it goes Dallas with Witten, the Washington with Cooley, then Shockey and the Giants. You have to look at overall blocking as well as receiving. Witten is the most complete TE in the division, so I think Dallas is #1.
I gotta agree with this. The Eagles have the best safety tandem in our division and maybe in the NFC altogether. The O-line probably is a push. He might just rate the Giants better because he is used to seeing Strahan own Runyan. However Runyan is very good in his own right, when not matched up against Strahan.

As far as TE I still have to go with Shockey. Witten is the better blocker but I think everyone is severely underrating Shockey's blocking ability. He isn't the greatest but he is not nearly as bad as everyone thinks. Shockey is such an atheltic freak and great receiver that I think sometimes people just assume he isn't a good blocker when that really isn't the case. Especially not anymore. If we are talking about his rookie season 4 years ago then that is a different story. Coughlin has definately made him a better blocker where Fassel used to just let him do whatever he wanted.
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Old 08-29-2006, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Number 10
---OL
1-Redskins
2-Giants
3-Eagles
4-Cowboys

---MLB/ILB
1-Giants
2-Cowboys
3-Eagles
4-Redskins


---S
1-Redskins
2-Giants
3-Eagles
4-Cowboys

---P
1-Giants
2-Cowboys
3-Redskins
4-Eagles

---Return Game
1-Eagles
2-Giants
3-Cowboys
4-Redskins
I agree with everything you did except these.

For OL, I'd put Giants and Eagles 2a and 2b. I think the Eagles starters are better than or have the potential to be better than the Giants line, except all the guys on the Giants are proven to be good.

I'd put the Eagles at 2 or 2a and 2b with the Cowboys MLBs. Bradie James is good but Akin Ayodele is horrible overrated IMO. Trotter is great at stopping the run, and although he isnt a good pass defender, he's taken out in nickel and dime anyways so it doesnt matter as much as it should. Gaither is a real good backup.

I'd put the Eagles as the best safeties in the division, or atleast tied. Adam Archuleta is horribly overrated. He's a watered down version of Michael Lewis, with a bit more playmaking ability. Archuleta is even worse in coverage than Lewis. For the Giants' safeties, Gibril Wilson is real good but I dont understand the hype of Will Demps. He was never that good in Baltimore.

Dirk Johnson is worlds better than Derrick Frost, and Johnson has never been 100% healthy as an Eagle. The stats dont really show it though. Frost has a career 40.2 yard average, with 36 yard net. Dirk has a career 41.2 yard average with a 36.4 net. Frost's average in the preseason is 40.7, and Dirk's is 43.1 yards. Dirk is looking real good.

I dont think the Eagles deserve the #1 return game. If Westbrook was there, than yes but he doesnt return anymore. Bruce Perry is/was the KR but will be cut. JR Reed was a great returner in his rookie year before he tore his perenneal nerve and doesnt seem to have the same explosiveness. Bloom looked good with something like 3 returns, but he's injured and is likely on IR to stash him away for the seasno. Reno is a good PR because he's really sure handed, but has no explosiveness whatsoever even though he led the league in yards per return last year.
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:00 PM    (permalink
Number 10
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358
#10: You have to give more credit to the Eagles O-Line and Safeties. I really think you missed on those rankings, especially with the Safeties. Dawkins and Lewis are arguably the best safety group in the league, and I think they're the best overall in the division. As for O-Line, I would argue they're in a second place tie with the Giants, but that's more a matter of opinion.

With regards to TE's, I think it goes Dallas with Witten, the Washington with Cooley, then Shockey and the Giants. You have to look at overall blocking as well as receiving. Witten is the most complete TE in the division, so I think Dallas is #1.
Safeties---

The Eagles could very well end up being the best in the division, but here is how I approached it. Dawkins vs. Taylor=Taylor wins. Taylor is one of the most supreme freaks in the NFL and his mental side of coverage really came on towards the end of last year. Lewis vs. Archuletta= Tie. I have never liked Lewis and other than his ability to play well in the box, I think he does not have as much to offer as Arch does. Arch is overrated by many of the 'Skins fans on this board because I am very unimpressed with his coverage skills as well. However, he will thrive in the Williams system with his ability to play the the run and blitz, two things Williams loves in his strong safety scheme. If anything, you could call it a tie overall but because I think Taylor is better than Dawkins, I have to give the edge to the 'Skins.

Offensive line....I am interested to see how their OTs play. Plus Andrews, although I really like him, needs to prove that his weaknesses have decreased. The Giants have two guards that have pro bowl aspirations along with a RT that could be considered the best run blocking OT in the division. They have massive depth all over the place and that was the thing that gave them the edge in my book.

And Cooley over Shockey? No way. I can see the Witten over Shockey debate but that has been argued many times over and it always comes down to a draw.
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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So Vanderjagt is not better than Feely, Akers and Hall?

I know tha Vanderjagt is a jerk and missed that FG againts Pittsburgh, but he's still one of the best kickers in the league. Feely was very inconsistent in Atlanta and he had a good season last year, that's all.. John Hall is nothing special.. The only one who can be better than Vanderjagt is Akers.. But no way the cowboys have the worst kicker in the division..not anymore..
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano
So Vanderjagt is not better than Feely, Akers and Hall?

I know tha Vanderjagt is a jerk and missed that FG againts Pittsburgh, but he's still one of the best kickers in the league. Feely was very inconsistent in Atlanta and he had a good season last year, that's all.. John Hall is nothing special.. The only one who can be better than Vanderjagt is Akers.. But no way the cowboys have the worst kicker in the division..not anymore..
I thought Vanderjagt might not even make the team.
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Old 08-29-2006, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jughead10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano
So Vanderjagt is not better than Feely, Akers and Hall?

I know tha Vanderjagt is a jerk and missed that FG againts Pittsburgh, but he's still one of the best kickers in the league. Feely was very inconsistent in Atlanta and he had a good season last year, that's all.. John Hall is nothing special.. The only one who can be better than Vanderjagt is Akers.. But no way the cowboys have the worst kicker in the division..not anymore..
I thought Vanderjagt might not even make the team.
I don't.

Quote:
Vanderjagt will get all the Cowboys field goals this year, unless a meteor strikes him or he really hurts the groin trying to rush his rehab
This is a pretty good point from the Boys Blog..
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Old 08-29-2006, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Anyone who says the Eagles don't have the best safety tandem in the entire league should not be here. I have to say that DAwkins is better than Taylor because IMO, Dawkins has the nuances of playing FS down pat, while Taylor relys more on his athleticm... Michael LEwis is an abosolute best, he can play in coverage and he hits like a tank...The eagles have the best safety tandem in the League...
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