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Old 10-09-2006, 10:13 AM    (permalink
Vince Lombardi
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Originally Posted by ricky bobby
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Originally Posted by Vince Lombardi
Rivers for me. As I said in the Rivers thread him and Eli are pretty equal as far as being able to make all of the throws but Rivers takes it in other categories.
What are the other catagories?
Personality-Rivers has a very fiery personality. I like that he gets his teammates fired up and he also commands respect as the leader. Eli on the other hand seems to prefer to let someone else speak up, not that that's a bad thing, I just prefer a QB who can be the vocal leader.

Physicality- They both have great size but Rivers seems to be the more physical of the two.

In most other areas I have them pretty much equal though. I have no doubt Eli is gonna be a great QB too as he has a pedigree that can't be denied. It's mostly just a difference in preference on why I prefer Rivers.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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It's amazing what one game will do for everyone's opinion. You are all likely the same people that said the Chargers didn't have a shot at the playoffs because they had Rivers at QB. I still take Big Ben quite honestly. He's struggling yes, but he has the kind of moxy that you want in a QB.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Young and Rivers both have an odd delivery. I'm not saying its bad, it's just low and prone to getting batted down. I think the verdict is still out on Rivers, he's only started a handful of games. Eli is already solid.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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It's amazing what one game will do for everyone's opinion. You are all likely the same people that said the Chargers didn't have a shot at the playoffs because they had Rivers at QB. I still take Big Ben quite honestly. He's struggling yes, but he has the kind of moxy that you want in a QB.
One game? We are about to go into week 6.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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It's amazing what one game will do for everyone's opinion. You are all likely the same people that said the Chargers didn't have a shot at the playoffs because they had Rivers at QB. I still take Big Ben quite honestly. He's struggling yes, but he has the kind of moxy that you want in a QB.
0 TD's 7 picks.
I said it all along. He can only manage a game. He's not good when he has to air it out to win the game. With no running game, their offense is doomed.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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It's amazing what one game will do for everyone's opinion. You are all likely the same people that said the Chargers didn't have a shot at the playoffs because they had Rivers at QB. I still take Big Ben quite honestly. He's struggling yes, but he has the kind of moxy that you want in a QB.
One game? We are about to go into week 6.
How many games do you think most people have seen Philip Rivers play? We have about 0 Chargers fans on here and they aren't on national TV that often.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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It's between Eli and Rivers for me right now and I think I'd lean towards Rivers because of the precision that he can place on his throws. And I've never been a big fan of Ben.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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It's between Eli and Rivers for me right now and I think I'd lean towards Rivers because of the precision that he can place on his throws. And I've never been a big fan of Ben.
Eli is right at the top of the league i believe in completion %. 67.1% i believe.
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Old 10-09-2006, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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It's amazing what one game will do for everyone's opinion. You are all likely the same people that said the Chargers didn't have a shot at the playoffs because they had Rivers at QB. I still take Big Ben quite honestly. He's struggling yes, but he has the kind of moxy that you want in a QB.
:roll: Yea and none of us are familiar with him at all from watching him in college. It's not like this is a guy that nobody has ever heard of that's coming out of nowhere and everybodies jumping on his bandwagon after a game. This is a guy who was selected #4 overall and came into the league with high expectations, many people had him as the #1 QB in that draft. I loved Rivers coming out of college and I don't need to see him play for several years to be able to tell that his game will adapt to the NFL nicely. It's pretty clear that this kid is gonna be a star in the league. :roll:
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Old 10-09-2006, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Aaah...so it begins eh?

Im going to sound like a homer on this one, but I honestly think Eli Manning is the best of the group. Like Number 10 stated, he has "it". His pocket presence is unreal, and he's so so clutch. The kid can do it all. What were his knocks prior to this season?

Inaccuracy and lack of arm strength, and decision making to an extent.

Well, looky here, he is 2nd in the league in TDs, he has I believe the best competion % in the league, and has already shown his 4th quarter bravado on 2 different occassions. And on top of that, he's literally been unstoppable in the no huddle. Its funny how all the Eli hate subsided so quickly.

But back to the point, Rivers has potential to be the 2nd best. He's accurate, but Im not a big fan of his side arm delivery. He also hasn't shown much to prove hes legitimately better than Roethlisberger. Its far too early. I think both are near equal level, with Rivers slightly better.

Ben's got the ring, but he's the worst of this group. Thats not to say he's bad, because he's still good. He's a great game manager, but he's shown consistently throughout his career so far that he is incapable of leading an offense when he's asked to be the focal point. Look at his stats. I don't want to research it, but Im pretty sure that when he throws over or roughly 30 times, he's never played a great game, in fact he's probably played poorly. You can look it up, Im too lazy to.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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its sick, the way rivers put placement on some of those balls...
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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All the mannings choke, Rivers will be better then Eli. Look at Eli's offense compared to Rivers. Yes i know Rivers has LT and Gates but Eli has Tiki, Shockey, Toomer, and Burress. Rivers puts amazing placement on the ball and he is a great game manager. The chargers need to bring in some more talent to the wide out position and Rivers will be great. Rivers was great in college and in college i thought he was better then ELI but you know how much the media loves those Mannings.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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All the mannings choke, Rivers will be better then Eli. Look at Eli's offense compared to Rivers. Yes i know Rivers has LT and Gates but Eli has Tiki, Shockey, Toomer, and Burress. Rivers puts amazing placement on the ball and he is a great game manager. The chargers need to bring in some more talent to the wide out position and Rivers will be great. Rivers was great in college and in college i thought he was better then ELI but you know how much the media loves those Mannings.
You came off as a hater on this one. Phillip Rivers has plenty of talent. Toomer is not much different from McCardell. Gates is light years ahead of Shockey right now. LT is clearly better than Barber. Talent is equal. Rivers gets this stigma that he's more accurate than Eli...how? Eli has the highest completion % in the league...wheres the "accuracy issues" all the haters were talking about last year? But more importantly, his pocket presence is not as good as Eli. Thats the most overlooked aspect of a quarterback, pocket presence.

And Eli will not choke...they call him 4th quarter Eli for a reason.

Right now all this "I <3 Phillip Rivers" talk is just as premature as the Ben Roethlisberger talk the past 2 years. What has he done to warrant so much love? He played like 4 games. This is the first time he threw for 30+. Jeez guys, people need to stop jumping on this.

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Old 10-09-2006, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Lights years ahead of shockey? you have got to be kidding me. Gates is good but him and LT get keyed on like you wouldnt believe. Buress and Toomer put the chargers wide outs to shame. And LT isnt way better then Tiki, Tiki is great out of the backfield just like LT is. You cant be serious when you tell me that the chargers offense is as good as the giants. And i come off as a hater how? I'm not even a Giants or Chargers fan i can careless about them i just think Rivers will be a better player.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Lights years ahead of shockey? you have got to be kidding me. Gates is good but him and LT get keyed on like you wouldnt believe. Buress and Toomer put the chargers wide outs to shame. And LT isnt way better then Tiki, Tiki is great out of the backfield just like LT is. You cant be serious when you tell me that the chargers offense is as good as the giants. And i come off as a hater how? I'm not even a Giants or Chargers fan i can careless about them i just think Rivers will be a better player.
1. What has Shockey done thus far to warrant the same status as Gates? He's been injury prone the past 2 years and is more mouth than substance. Gates has far out produced Shockey these past 2 years. Some of it is scheme, but still.

2. Toomer last year looked done...washed up. The reason why he's doing so good this year is because Manning is stepping his game up. Toomer is in man coverage just like McCardell, Eli is taking advantage of it and Rivers is not at the moment. Toomer is no faster than McCardell, and they both have good hands and good route running. Theyre a draw.

3. LT is still young. Barber has already shown signs of age, and he isn't nearly as productive this year as last year. Outside of the skins game, he's been mediocre. He's constantly being spelled by Jacobs because he just doesn't have the stamina he used to. At this point in his career, LT is definately better.

4. You don't think Burress is keyed in on?

5. SD's oline is better than ours.

6. SD has a better FB

7. So let's recap. Better oline, better TE, better FB, better RB. Flanker is tied, our primary WR is better. So we beat them in one category. Eli just makes the rest of the guys better. Rivers will get there, but he is in no way there right now. Let's wait a little before we compare him to Eli or Ben.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Roethlisberger is easily the most overrated QB in the league and I'm tired of the everything surrounding him (and I'm tired of the Favre talk too, so don't yell at me!).

1. Eli
2. Rivers
3. Roethlisberger
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Eli, good quarterback reads defenses, good acuarcy, and good arm strenght.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Come on, a lot of those "SD is better" are very close. Rivers is doing this in his first year as a starter, he is way ahead of the curve compared to Eli Manning and Carson Palmer in their respective first seasons. All I will agree upon is that Eli and Philip are both very good, meanwhile Ben is not. Overall I prefer Rivers, he has everything anyone could want out of a QB. He's is exceptional on all accounts, maturity, leadership, arm strength, accuracy, mobility in the pocket. I see him on a level with Peyton and Carson within a year.
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Old 10-09-2006, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Come on, a lot of those "SD is better" are very close. Rivers is doing this in his first year as a starter, he is way ahead of the curve compared to Eli Manning and Carson Palmer in their respective first seasons. All I will agree upon is that Eli and Philip are both very good, meanwhile Ben is not. Overall I prefer Rivers, he has everything anyone could want out of a QB. He's is exceptional on all accounts, maturity, leadership, arm strength, accuracy, mobility in the pocket.
I personally have Rivers projected to be better than Ben eventually, but don't you think the talk is too premature? Whats the difference between this Rivers talk and the Ben talk from last year? We're all jumping to conclusions far too quickly.

And yes, the factors I mentioned above are close, but to say NYG has more talent than SD is not true, its close either way, I'll give you that. And while Rivers is in his first year starting, he did sit 2 years. That has to count for something. Thats 8 extra PS games, plus garbage time. Thats still something.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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I do not think so. The Steelers shut down LaDainian Tomlinson, period. Rivers stepped up to the plate and won the game, all the while in his fourth NFL start. He's already shown me more than Roethlisberger has in that regard. Roethlisberger struggles in games where he throws more than 30+ times;

5 Touchdowns
11 Interceptions

Which is pretty damning. Not to mention Roethlisberger only received credit as a good NFL QB when he "led his team to a Super Bowl" despite him sucking in said game.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
He played one game against something that could be considered prevent defense.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Zim3031
I've always been a big fan of Rivers since he was in a college and it's nice to see him finally have a chance.

And I think Eli's numbers are inflated because of all the 4th quarter yards that he's racking up against prevents. He's still remarkably inconsistent.
Im not gonna beat a dead horse, but that is so far from the truth. He's been great this year, I don't see any of the "knocks" of his game at all this year. But I regress.

Shiv, you brought up a good point that I failed to realize. Rivers went out there and won that game. Thats definately true. Roethlisberger can't do that. He's proven it throughout his career when he throws 30+ times. However, its still Rivers 4th game. I mean, what if he comes out and throws 4 INTs next week? It could happen. Its still far too early to make a declaration on Rivers being better than Roethlisberger. As much as Roethlisberger has/is overrated, I think we're taking a little too much credit away from him too.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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I will gladly eat crow if he throws 4-picks against the 49ers next week.
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Old 10-09-2006, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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I picked Big Ben just because he would fit the type of QB that the Bears have had sucsess w/ Very well
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who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?
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